Pianotech

Expand all | Collapse all

How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

  • 1.  How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-24-2021 13:27
    Not often, but I do come upon vertical pianos with a top lid that hinges open to the left. How does one tune a piano with this style of lid? I've been extremely fortunate to have found some way to solve this issue on-the-job by resting the lid on a music stand, or removing the hinge pins and removing the lid, or by resting the lid on the wall or fireplace to the left of the piano...but one day I feel as though I won't be fortunate and won't have much in means of resting the lid on...or the hinge is a full length hinge and removal of the pin is not going to happen. I'd assume removing the hinge by unscrewing it would be the next option but those short little screws strip the old wood so easily...

    So what can be done to get into the piano with this kind of lid?

    ------------------------------
    Cobrun Sells
    cobrun94@yahoo.com
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-24-2021 13:29
    I usually find a way to pull out the hinge pin or pins.





  • 3.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-24-2021 20:46
    Wim, I'm not sure how those props work.

    What about non removable pin (full length hinge that have years of bending and tarnish...so they won't come out?)

    ------------------------------
    Cobrun Sells
    cobrun94@yahoo.com
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-24-2021 22:14

    I remove the pin if possible, and then I put some VJ lube on the pin and reinsert it from the front, for the next tuner.

    But if the pin won't come out, I used to carry a long wooden dowel with a crutch tip on one end and a balance rail pin sticking out 1/2" at an angle on the other. The crutch tip nests on the front corner underside of the lid, which has some moldings around the corner, and the bent pin goes into the hole for the lid's locator pin, on the right side. Those left-hinged lids do usually have a locator pin so they don't swing forward or backward.

    When I downsized my car the dowel got left behind, because I see one of these lids maybe once in 6 or 7 years?






  • 5.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-24-2021 22:57
    i used to remove the hinge pins as well until some pianos were not as cooperative (mostly due to a very tight fit).  Then i used a long (approx 24 or so inches) dowel like Susan did, inserted a balance key pin on one end and on the other end, i superglued a large rubber button.  
    I carry it with me all the time as i probably see uprights with the left hinge probably 20 times yearly.
    Peter

    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-25-2021 11:49

    So, Petrus, all those left hinge verticals went to Georgia! I wondered where they disappeared to.

    Great minds apparently thought alike? <ducking>






  • 7.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-25-2021 16:57
    Yesterday I had the Schaff props with me to pull a Baldwin spinet action out for service. Today my eyes setlled on the Kohler Campbell I had last tuned in 2017 with the sideways top I had struggled last time to removed. I remembered when I did get the pins off finally, I put them back with Protek to make it easier for the next tuner. Today I found myself as being the next tuner. "Isn't Karma great?"I smiled pulling the first pin. It did not budge. Then I recalled reading William's post this morning. So I went out to my car and brought in the Scaff props. I screwed three sections together. One end I put in a hole on the right side. The other on the inside of the front corner of the lid to hold it in place. Although the 3 sections bent slightly under the load of the lid, it held. My SAT Iv and Levitan upright C lever tuned up to the 6th octave, my regular ball handled hammer took care of the right side to clear the prop. Wow, what an enlightening thread. Isn't Karma great? Thanks William, Susan and all.

    ------------------------------
    Kevin Magill
    Williamsburg VA
    757-220-2420
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-25-2021 18:23

    Seems like for longer lasting lubrication in places which call for a heavy grease, VJ Lube lasts better than Protek? Well, at least better than the thin Protek.

    If I see something on which I used VJ Lube years and years before, it dries a little bit but the talcum powder is still held in place by the remnants of the lanolin, and it is still working. I have the impression that the lanolin lasts better than the vaseline.






  • 9.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-25-2021 20:43
    Now that I recall, it was the thin Protek. I was using it on the short pins and running the long pins through a looped pipe cleaner dipped in McLube 444. Yes, a heavier lube next time.

    ------------------------------
    Kevin Magill
    Williamsburg VA
    757-220-2420
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-24-2021 13:59
    Coburn

    Use three sections of the action removal rods. Part 3333 from Schaff. I carry them in my tool bag. 


    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-24-2021 18:27
    On many uprights with that left side hinge you'll find that there are flat spots on the hinge pin designed to allow you to remove the lid without pulling the pin. All you need to do is rotate the pin in the hinge until the flat spots on the pin line up with the slight openings in the hinge on the lid and the lid will lift right off. Usually that means that the bend will be at a right angle to the piano instead of flat against it. On some pianos with this left hinge you can sometimes find they have a built in lid prop designed with the technician in mind. But rarely. Then, there are those where you're simply stuck with pulling the pin. 

    I would recommend to never prop the lid up against the wall or something. It will invariably leave a mark on the wall, or a scratch on the lid, which is a major faux-pas. It will also frequently drive you nuts because it will vibrate against the wall while you tune.

    ------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-24-2021 19:33
    Pulling the pin is the better solution. Sometimes, fate will be against you and the ball-end is at the rear, so you'll have to pull that side away from the wall to drive out and pull the pin. Upon installation, place the ball-end in the front but leave it out enough to grab with pliers.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-24-2021 21:16
    Agree with Jon here. 

    I keep a Leatherman multi-tool in my main tuning kit. The needle-nose pliers work great for grabbing onto the head of the long hinge pin. Sometimes it's necessary to tap on the other end first to give it enough to grab onto.

    When reinserting the pin, it's usually hard to line up precisely and therefore, hard to push through. You can either gently move the lid up and down while working the pin in place. (A second person is sometimes helpful, but you can do it solo.) Also helpful is a screwdriver-type tool that accepts bits. Take out the bit, and it fits well over the pin, and you can press harder without having to worry about scuffing the case with the needle-nose pliers. My tool of choice for this is a T-shaped combo hammer-screwdriver. Tap on the T-end, which is comfortable on the heel of the hand.

    Years ago, Ron Nossaman suggested filing or sanding the end of the pin into more of a point rather than the blunt end which is indeed hard to push through the hinges. I'm sure that works the best, but I have not yet tried it. Over the years, there has been only one pin that was hard enough that it would have been worth the walk out to the car to get the stuff to do it.

    ------------------------------
    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS

    Live not by fear or lies.
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-24-2021 23:18
    And then there's those where the pin can't be inserted from the front, those with two L shaped pins, and worst of all the ones with two mounted pins that have to be carefully inserted into their mounting plates. (Angry face emoji)

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-25-2021 02:42
    For the pianos that the pin cannot be removed, I ask my client if they have a big old towel that I may use, which I'm going to use to support the lid. I fold the towel up several times and stuff it in as close as possible to the left side near the hinge and then lower the lid down onto the folded up towel or or old pillow. Now the lid is pointing into the air at about 45 degrees and I am able to tune the bass. Hopefully I've made myself clear.

    ------------------------------
    Mark Davis
    Piano Tuner/Technician
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-25-2021 07:45
    It may be too obvious, Geoff, but since you mention it, I would never lean a lid against a wall no matter how it opens. Always use a cloth or some soft material between. That will answer your objections.

    Bob Anderson, RPT
    Tucson, AZ




  • 17.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-25-2021 03:28
    To begin with we need to all get together and find a way to put a curse on whoever invented these.

    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-25-2021 05:56
    Blaine - I totally disagree with you. These left-hinged lids are wonderful AND totally turn any vertical piano into a concert quality GRAND piano!!!   ;-)

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Member
    Posted 06-25-2021 09:34
    I call these bad boys "sidewinders". The first one I encountered was in a room that had low ceilings. I tried everything to get the pin out and ended up using a high chair to prop it up. There was only about 1/4" clearance between the end of the lid and ceiling when it was fully vertical. After that I made sure I had a pin punch and my small hammer with me as well as a small vise grip plier. One piano was recessed between two bookcases so I used a woodworking squeeze clamp to hold it straight up against the bookcase side. Recently I bought a pair of pliers called sidewinder pliers designed to pull out nails on moldings. I am on the hunt for my next sidewinder. I have encountered this design on a number of brands including some Yamahas. It must have been a fad at one time or a marketing gimmick. Actually it is one way to prevent people from putting their picture frame collection on the piano. Sidewinder pliers are available from Lee Valley Tools for all of you tool addicts

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-25-2021 11:55

    The left hand hinged lid is unnecessary to turn a small piano into a Grand. I TUNED a "Grand" piano. It was a tiny double-strung spinet, and where the fallboard would have been (it didn't have one) it said "Artist Console" on the right.

    I called it "Lying Bastard."






  • 21.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-25-2021 15:37
    "The left hand hinged lid is unnecessary to turn a small piano into a Grand. I TUNED a "Grand" piano. It was a tiny double-strung spinet, and where the fallboard would have been (it didn't have one) it said "Artist Console" on the right.

    I called it "Lying Bastard."

    Now this is an interesting and important post!  One would almost think it was a politician!



    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-26-2021 02:20
    a little unrelated to the left hinge Vertical lid subject, but the comments on turning a piano into a "Grand Piano" reminded me of a conversation I had recently in my shop. I recently acquired a Marshal & Wendell 1932 Grand (with an Ampico B player, the reason I bought it) that is 4'6" if you "fudge" a little. Now the piano is still unrestored, so the bass strings aren't lively. A friend came in and looked it over, and said, "Well no wonder it doesn't have a strong bass-it's just a spinet on it's back!" (Actually, I think the Bass will liven up quite a bit with some bass string renewals-this piano has had a troubled life, the owners spilled something on the soundboard and it is a real mess right now!)  Did anyone market a shorter grand??
    David Dewey





  • 23.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-26-2021 03:58
    Well, there is always the Yamaha CP-70.

    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-26-2021 09:26
    Hi David,
    I have a customer with a Wurlitzer butterfly piano which is quite a bit shorter and has 73 keys only. 
    I did never measure its actual length but probably right around 4 ft.
    Peter

    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-26-2021 11:17
    hi David,
    just looked up the info i have on file for this Wurlitzer butterfly piano:
    length is only 3'6"
    serial number 158559,  built in 1937
    Peter

    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-27-2021 01:02
    Peter,   Wow! 3-6" That is really short. I suppose I should have specified a shorter "standard" Grand design.
    David





  • 27.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Member
    Posted 06-26-2021 10:06
    There are a number of very small grand pianos that are in a 4 foot range . The question has been asked before. I have to look through my records but I recall a grand someone had in his kitchen . I have also seen some very small verticals that were made to be lighter and portable and one made to be put in a bed room. One name is a Tom Thumb.

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-26-2021 16:27

    If I remember a nice talk Del Fandrich gave us once, a grand like this might be improved by allowing the soundboard at the bass end to float a little bit for a couple of feet instead of tying it to the rim all the way around.

    But what do I know?

    This might be an interesting chance to see if it can sound better. Allowing a longer back length might help the bass as well, even at the expense of the speaking lengths, but moving the bridge might be a pain. On the other hand, if it has an ambitious bridge apron which probably would be sagging badly already, that might be shortened so there is less cantilever, which would increase the back lengths.






  • 29.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-26-2021 23:21
    Susan, I am hoping I won't have to dig that deeply into the piano. Right now (since it is my own piano) I am planning on taking the tension off, Doing the Bass String "break the rust free" treatment, which has worked wonders on old Uprights for me, and lifting the treble strings out of the way to clean the soundboard of all the junk that is on it, and repair two minor cracks in the board.
    If that doesn't work wonders, then I am willing to try other options!! Those cracks are right where one would "free" the board for more flexibility-hmmmmm.  Amazingly, the Ampico mechanism is still functioning-there are signs that it was rebuilt some time ago.
    David D.





  • 30.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-27-2021 00:57

    Owning the thing does give you a lot of freedom of choice! Let us know how it turns out.






  • 31.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-26-2021 06:14
    Susan K. wrote of her experience with a "GRAND" piano. Indeed, I have serviced a few of those little wonders. I'm curious, what design feature are you referring to with the term "double-strung"?

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Posted 06-26-2021 07:52
    "Double strung"  are those pso beauties  with no tri-chords , so a bunch of single  string  bass notes then plain wire looped  bi- chords  for the entire piano , generally  a few shy of 88 notes,  these pianos take about 18 minutes to tune , hmmm what d'ya do to fill the time  before you pick up the check?
    www.snowpianos.com

    ------------------------------
    Martin Snow
    South Burlington VT
    617-543-1030
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-26-2021 16:31

    To fill the time to get the check, choose a customer who writes fast.






  • 34.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-26-2021 16:30


    "Grand" "piano":

    "Double strung" as in two-string treble unisons instead of three. After all, if you have two strings and one breaks, there's still another to make the note, so why would anyone have to put on three?






  • 35.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-25-2021 15:50
    "Blaine - I totally disagree with you. These left-hinged lids are wonderful AND totally turn any vertical piano into a concert quality GRAND piano!!!   ;-)"

    After carefully considering the effects of left hinged lids on piano tonal quality and performance enhancement I now realize the error of my ways and I concur.  I will henceforth look forward to the opportunity to learn from each of these pianos I service in the future.  I will also encourage customers to consider them in their purchasing searches and will encourage manufacturers to add these features to every console they build.


    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 36.  RE: How to Deal with Left Hinge Vertical Lids

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-25-2021 11:52

    Agreed, Blaine, but it's too late. I'm sure the despicable inventor is dead by now, of old age. Proof that many pianos will outlive all of us eventually.