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Susan's White Glue Tip

  • 1.  Susan's White Glue Tip

    Posted 02-19-2019 13:10
    A few days ago I Learned about gluing loose hammers while on the shanks with Elmer's White Glue and your pinky finge from Susan Kline's post. 
         Today, for the first time I applied this technique to a Boston hammer. It took seconds to repair this hammer and by the time  I finished tuning it was a perfect fix. WOW, talking easy and quick!!!
         I shared this with my  RPT buddies in North Alabama . We all say thank you Susan!

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    Thomas Black
    Decatur AL
    256-350-9315
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  • 2.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-19-2019 13:18
    <wide smile> You're very welcome, Thomas!

    And if you don't have to pull the hammer off, it means you also won't manage to glue it back on crooked.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 3.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-20-2019 23:31
    Susan,
    Would you kindly re-post? This is something that has dogged me too many times.
    Thanks in advance.

    Joe Wiencek




  • 4.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-21-2019 09:55
    Sure, Joe

    Here's the part of the post which dealt with loose hammer heads:

    <<One little tactic I've used for years: if upright hammers are loose on the shanks, put a little bit of white glue on the pinky of your right hand, reach in, and smear it into the seam where the hammer meets the shank, most of it being toward the strings. Then check to be sure that none is dripping down the shank into the hammer rest rail felt. (I glued a hammer shank to the felt once.) Within a few minutes the hammer should be firm on the shank.

    It's easy enough to flex all the hammers, right thumb against the tail and right index finger against the strike point, and see if they move just a little bit. The treble ones seem especially prone to getting loose. I've found this fix to be fast and easy and permanent.

    It did take me awhile to figure out that I should keep a small bottle of white glue (Elmer's) in my kit, instead of a larger one.>>

    The ease and speed of this depends on two good points: (1) you only treat the hammers which are actually loose, and (2) you don't need to remove the action, or to bring any special tools. Since the repair takes seconds and requires only a small bottle of white glue, treating all the hammers to prevent any others from coming loose seems like overkill.

    For loose jack flanges, on the other hand, each one which works loose can jam a note, and gluing one back in accurately without removing the wippen is kind of a pain. So, if a very old upright has several jack flanges coming loose, it's worth the trouble to treat them all with glue dilute enough to wick in.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 5.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Posted 02-21-2019 11:15
    Susan,
         I think you may have discovered the "Silver Hammer" tip of the century with that White Glue fix!

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 6.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-21-2019 15:42
    <big grin>

    Very kind thought, Thomas.

    I just started doing it one day. Wanted to get a loose hammer head firmer, didn't want to bother to take it out, or fiddle with it. I just figured I wanted glue in the partly open seam. I believe the first time I rubbed some in I flexed the hammer on the shank a little in hopes of it working further in, but it doesn't seem to be necessary.

    There's a similar fix for loose grand hammers with a concert coming up, the kind that make a ticking sound. Action out on your lap, put a drop or two of water-thin CA glue on the seam where the end of the hammer shank is flush with the hammer tail (hammer folded upright.) I breathe on it so the moisture in my breath sets it up faster. One of the Seattle techs (Steve Brady? Doug Wood?) said he wet a finger and rubbed it across the end of the hammer shank. Sets up the CA. It should be firmed up and ready to go in a few seconds.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 7.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Posted 02-21-2019 16:32
    ''.......... It should be firmed up and ready to go in a few seconds.......''  yeh  along with the skin from your fingertip!!

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    Martin Snow
    Boston MA
    617-543-1030
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  • 8.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-21-2019 23:31
    <grin> speed, lots of speed.

    But that's one reason I breathe on it instead of rubbing it.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 9.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Posted 02-20-2019 06:39
    Do you have a link to the post? And BTW, what the heck is a "pinky finge"?

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    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Posted 02-20-2019 08:41
    I just went to my trash messages and found her original post and that misspelled word is "pinky finger". 
         On Studio or upright pianos when hammer is loose, just rub Elmer's White Glue in the joint between shank and loose hammer on the underside, while in place with pinky finger. Presto, it's fixed!
         Sorry for unclear post.

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 11.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-20-2019 09:23
    Terry, that's basically the whole thing, except I warned that if you use too much white glue it can drip down and glue the hammer shank to the hammer rail cloth -- which happened to me once.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 12.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Posted 02-20-2019 10:47
    I tried a slightly different remedy on an old Knabe upright last year.  I learned about the technique in some literature from Martha Taylor at Immortal Piano in Portland.  Hot hide glue can apparently be reactivated by vinegar.  The old Knabe had several loose hammers.  The vinegar indeed did exactly what Martha described and the hammers snugged right up after a few minutes.  A small-tipped applicator was used to apply the vinegar sparingly right on the glue collar at the base of the hammer.  The action was in a cradle so it could be rotated advantageously.

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    [Barbara] [Bernhardt]
    [Piano Technician/Co-Owner ]
    [GF Music, LLC]
    [Montrose] [CO]
    [(970)209-8817]
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  • 13.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-20-2019 12:39
    This is similar to a tactic I've sometimes used for old upright actions where a number of jack flanges have come loose and needed regluing. In an attempt to prevent more from coming loose, I've put Titebond cut half and half with water on the jack flange seams so it can wick in. Small brush, or a small plastic pipette, sparingly.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 14.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-21-2019 00:49
    I have been successfully using both hot hide glue and Elmers for fixing pianos with many loose hammer or other joints.  I mix a small amount of Elmers with about equal amounts of  water and apply with a small dropper to the collar of the hammer joints with the action upside down.  The runny Elmers gets into the joint and is flexible enough to save me from pulling off an entire set of hammers.

    Thin hot hide glue will also work, but you have to keep it hot while you apply it and ideally you should run a heat gun or hair dryer over the joints to thoroughly bond the joints.

    In a customer's house you can do this with a coffee cup in the microwave.

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    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
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  • 15.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-21-2019 16:37
    "In a customer's house you can do this with a coffee cup in the microwave."

    Just not the customer's coffee cup, I hope!

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    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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  • 16.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Posted 02-21-2019 14:27
    Hello Susan,
    Have you found this to be a permanent fix?
    Peter

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    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055
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  • 17.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-21-2019 15:30
    Yes, Petrus. I've never known one to come loose again, not that I've bothered marking them.

    If a hammer head is very loose, more than usual, I've sometimes had to add more after 15 or 20 minutes, but that's rare.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 18.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Posted 02-21-2019 17:31
    Are you able to work enough glue into the joint? I believe you if you have had success with this method. Hard to imagine it working though. Certainly an easy & quick route if it work though....

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    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Susan's White Glue Tip

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-21-2019 23:36
    Well, the first time I tried it I wasn't sure it would be enough glue, but it was. You can figure that the space which needs to be filled, just enough space that the hammer can barely twitch, isn't very great.

    Try it the next time you tune a tired old upright with loose hammers -- tell us how it goes for you.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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