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Cyber Tuner

  • 1.  Cyber Tuner

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-15-2019 13:22

    Confession, I'm a total "newbie" with CT.


    I was recently able to purchase the Cyber Tuner and I really want to get better at using it. My first question is: 

    I keep having issues when taking my sample readings--even on really NICE pianos. Yesterday I pulled it out to tune a Sanctuary piano (a nice Boston 178) at a Methodist Church that I have been tuning for years but it was WHACKED and I wanted to try the CT. both of the first two notes were bad readings (yellow). 

    What are some tricks, helps hints?? 

    Thanks so much great ones!!!



  • 2.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-15-2019 13:35
    Hi Kevin,

    A couple of things that might help.  One is did you put any kind of skin or cover on the iPad?  Sometimes it's possible to obscure the mic on the iPad and it is not picking up well.  You can also check your settings to make sure the volume is up on your mic.  Otherwise, I find it works better to hit A4,3, &2 one time and hold the note down for the entire sample.  Once each for each of the three samples on each note of course but I find this works better than playing the note over and over in those sections.  In the treble, quick successive notes work better for some reason.

    The sampling is a lot pickier on these newer releases than in the old days.  If a note has trouble sampling try moving the iPad to a different spot.  Also you can try sampling a different string of the unison.  I mute off two of the three.  

    Or it could be that moron out in the hall that thinks it's funny for hum the note you are playing...

    Chris

    Christopher D. Purdy R.P.T.
    Registered Piano Technician
    School of Music, Ohio University
    Rm. 311, Robt. Glidden Hall
    Athens, OH  45701
    Office (740) 593-4230
    Cell    (740) 590-3842
    fax      (740) 593-1429
    http://www.ohiou.edu/music






  • 3.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Posted 02-15-2019 13:51
    CyberTuner is giving you an honest report on what it "hears," quantifying the variance between the three readings.
    A "yellow" reading with a low number, 0.20 or so, may be quite usable.
    Sometimes a "good" piano gives variant readings.
    Be sure to mute off two strings in the 3 string unison and 1 in the bichords.
    You can try playing at a different dynamic level, or playing each note with a quick staccato "pick up," or sampling a different string, or plucking the string, or moving the device elsewhere in the piano.
    Plucking almost always gets a green rating.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-15-2019 14:32
    Chris (and Ed! & others) Thanks much. 
    1-plucking! Great idea
    2-mic covered up. Bingo! I think this could be part of my issue. I just got a brand new Otter Box for my iPhone 8 after cracking up my tempered glass (only! Not the main screen-yay). But on that Boston my iPad was in my car so I was trying to use my phone. I looked at the iPad cover & it looks like this one has NICE holes in the cover just for the mic. So if I do use my phone, I can just go ahead & take the cover off-or whatever I need to do now that I'm AWARE. 
    3-I'm also going to experiment with muting the treble w/o dampers. Nice!

    Kevin F






  • 5.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-15-2019 15:21
    Variant readings (causing yellow and red) are most often caused by inconsistent blows (unless there are noisy conditions, vacuum cleaner in the background, birds squawking, etc.). In fact, if you consciously do inconsistent blows (f, mp, mf) you can almost always generate that inconsistency reading. Playing a note three times and making them perfectly even in force and volume is tough to do. OTOH, that is real life: pitch varies with force of blow, and over time.

    Do pay attention to the numbers, though, and note that .20 (bottom of yellow zone) is two tenths of a cent. That means the measurements of each reading are compared, and that there is that HUGE (not) amount of discrepancy. I certainly try to get readings in the green zone, but I don't sweat it. 






  • 6.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-15-2019 17:01
    Yes-thanks Fred and others. 
    I'm already seeming great improvements with my last two tunings. This super old Mason gave me trouble on A5 only-switched to the right string & bing! Good to go. I consider this normal. (I think my main issue really was when trying to use my phone with this brand new really tight case.) But all this info has made me much more aware of things & I'm starting to get this hang of it!

    ------------------------------
    [Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
    [Staff Techician]
    [Texas Tech Univ]
    [Lubbock] [TX]
    [8067783962]
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-15-2019 13:41
    I'm very curious to hear what others do. 

    Best hint I ever got was from Atsundo Aikawa who recommended muting the strings in the high treble with no dampers when taking samples. Especially if the tuning is way out. 

    Just the A6 and A7 seems to make a big improvement in the accuracy of the readings.

    ------------------------------
    Daniel DeBiasio
    Brooklyn, NY
    646.801.8863
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Posted 02-15-2019 14:06
    A mic will improve listening. With my VT, I use an IMM-6 mic w/ cable. You can place the device in the best viewable location and locate the mic anywhere for better sampling. With a mic, the needle is less jumpy in the treble on the VT. Dayton Audio has the mic and cable. The cable is 6' but I coil it up to about 18" and Velcro the mic to that bundle for resting the mic.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-15-2019 14:39
    Hello Kevin,


    Congrats on buying a CyberTuner! It's definitely different from the SAT, but I think you'll really like it once you get the hang of it.

    One thing I do is use felt mutes as far up the scale as I can insert them on uprights, all the way on grands. They work much better than rubber mutes do, IMO. On grands try and insert the felt mutes near the center of the strings, on uprights as low as they will go. Then try and play all three samples the same volume. This usually yields acceptable green readings (under .20 cent variants), although sometimes you have to mute off the center string and measure one of the side strings instead.

    Hope this helps,

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-15-2019 21:25
    Hi Kevin,

    The biggest problem was the case blocking the mic.  Many of the other tips were also useful.

    It helps to point the mic directly at the string being sampled.  For the ipod, the mic is on top.  For the iphone the mic is on the bottom.  For the ipad mini 4 the mic is at the top of the right hand side.  I use an iPod 6 to tune.  I hold it in my hand pointed at the string being sampled at a distance of about 15".  I almost always get 5 green samples.  Once you have green samples there is no need to try and get ever lower variance numbers.  A variance number of .20 means that you are +/- .10 from the average value.  Close enough.

    When tuning grands in CyberEar I place the iPod on either the case, the struts or the capo bar with the mic pointing toward the strings being tuned.  With uprights I place the ipod on the case or fallboard pointed towards the strings.  This helps to get clear readings.

    The magic in CyberTuner is Concert Smart Tune;-)

    ------------------------------
    Carl Lieberman
    RPT
    Venice CA
    310-392-2771
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Posted 02-15-2019 22:45
    Dang I love this group and have followed numerous threads without commenting usually. Thanks all for these great suggestions for sampling with IRCT

    Sean McLaughlin
    Lead Piano Technician
    UCLA Herb Alpert School of Music
    Los Angeles, California
    Piano shop/office 310-825-7058




  • 12.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-16-2019 14:47
    You have received great responses, but there are a few more things.

    If the piano is way out of tune or off-pitch, which I assume is what you meant by WHACKED, it can be OK to go with the bad readings for the pitch correction/rough pass. Then after that first pass, take new readings; sometimes it's easier to get good readings after a pitch correction.

    Yellow and red alerts are going to happen, and when they do, don't stop, continue the recording sequence through to the end. Then individually sample the notes that need better readings; carefully mute all but one string such that the unwanted strings are completely muted but the open string still gets a clean blow; if necessary, try leaving a different string open for the sample. Try a mezzo-piano blow.

    It's an extremely rare piano that won't eventually yield good readings.





  • 13.  RE: Cyber Tuner

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-17-2019 21:42
    Kent, thanks so much. Great advice. 
    I probably exadurated a bit when I said whacked. I just knew it needed significant pitch correction-primarily in the bottom half. 
    This is all great information. Things are going much better! 
    Thanks again everyone!

    ------------------------------
    [Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
    [Staff Techician]
    [Texas Tech Univ]
    [Lubbock] [TX]
    [8067783962]
    ------------------------------