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Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

  • 1.  Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Posted 03-26-2019 17:58
    I want to see if a consensus can be reached on the following matter:

    Which temperament, based on your experience, is practically the easiest to tune and generally takes the least amount of time to do so aurally and via an electronic tuning device?

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    Roshan Kakiya
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  • 2.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Posted 03-26-2019 18:01
    Roshan-
    Have you ever tuned a piano?

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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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  • 3.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Posted 03-26-2019 18:05
    I have never tuned a piano, although I do have a good grasp of the mathematics of tuning.

    However, all the mathematics that I have posted on Pianotech can only be flawlessly applied to electric pianos that eliminate all the practical problems associated with tuning acoustic pianos.

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    Roshan Kakiya
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  • 4.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Posted 03-26-2019 18:10
    For me the tuning of the piano it's not necessarily setting the temperament that takes the time but actually getting the unisons in tune perfectly on every note . . . 

    Best wishes

    David P

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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594





  • 5.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-26-2019 19:58
    As I was reminded recently, we focus on temperament, octaves, unisons. Clients focus on unisons, octaves, temperament.

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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
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  • 6.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Posted 03-26-2019 20:37
    In my opinion, you're getting the "cart before the horse" (Am I showing my age in using that idiom?) I'd encourage you to begin by using an ETA (Electronic Tuning Aid). At least to begin with. Here's why: Much of what we do is physical. Learning to turn pins while hitting the note and get that string to stabilize. If you use an app you begin turning pins and actually tuning the whole piano. Not perfectly but then that's part of what we do. Accepting that it just will never be perfect. One thing to keep in mind is that you'll probably never get the needle/spinner to stop or align perfectly, but that doesn't really matter. Close is good. Then, tune the other strings by ear. We call them "unisons" (technical term... 😉 ) So, the real fun comes trying make those unisons as clean or beat-less as possible. Any good tuning is dependent on how clean the unisons are. Play octaves to make sure they sound pleasant and voila, you're tuning a whole piano and even tuning some of it aurally. So, even using an ETA there are still plenty of things to keep you engaged and challenged. Eventually when you gain some skill at turning pins and tuning unisons you may want to learn to tune totally aurally.

    At the university my daughter attends they have a program for teachers that gets them into a classroom their first semester. That way they find out if it's something they actually want to do. That's basically what I'm proposing. 

    This is one app that I'm using right now and the learning curve on it is very short: Easy Piano Tuner
    Don't let the name fool you. It's very sophisticated software.
    There's even a bare bones tutorial to show you how to tune a piano.

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    "That Tuning Guy"
    Scott Kerns
    www.thattuningguy.com
    Tunic OnlyPure, TuneLab & Smart Piano Tuner user
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  • 7.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-27-2019 01:38
    "Which temperament, based on your experience, is practically the easiest to tune and generally takes the least amount of time to do so aurally and via an electronic tuning device?"

    As is often the case, no one answered Roshan's question. I will albeit obliquely.
    Roshan, with regard to aural tuning, the easiest temperament to tune is the one you practice the most.
    To tune aurally you must have a method of checking yourself by comparing intervals and there can be different methods for tuning the same temperament. In order to aurally lay in (tune) a temperament of your own invention, you must also devise a methodology for testing it to ascertain that you have set it correctly.
    Using an ETD they are all pretty much the same in terms of ease and speed.

    Once one becomes fluent with a temperament and physical technique, ease and speed have more to do with the instrument than the temperament.

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    Steven Rosenthal
    Honolulu HI
    808-521-7129
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  • 8.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-27-2019 18:25
    I can make an octave sound pleasant, but am not sure how to make it sound 'viola' unless it's actually played on one.

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    David Nereson
    Registered Piano Technician
    Denver CO
    303-355-5770
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  • 9.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Posted 03-27-2019 18:31
    Many thanks to Scott for recommending Easy Piano Tuner. The reviews are amazing and most promising.

    Best wishes

    David P

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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594





  • 10.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Posted 03-30-2019 09:59

    Many thanks to Scott for recommending Easy Piano Tuner. The reviews are amazing and most promising.
    David Pinnegar,  03-27-2019 18:30
    I'm gratified that you're appreciative of my recommendation. I'm in the BETA program for the app and the latest upgrade has support for different temperaments. You can even plug in your own offsets and create your own temperament. This isn't anything new, other apps do this too, but it's new to EPT. By the way, Anthony (the creator of the app) has changed the name to Smart Piano Tuner. The word "easy" translates differently in other languages. More like "simple", and that didn't seem to be appropriate. It may be easy to use but certainly not simple in it's execution!

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    "That Tuning Guy"
    Scott Kerns
    www.thattuningguy.com
    Tunic OnlyPure, TuneLab & Smart Piano Tuner user
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  • 11.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Posted 03-30-2019 09:30
    As a matter of completeness, I've seen it said elsewhere by others that the easiest temperament to lay out by ear rather than by ETD is Kirnberger III and Kellner is easy too. KIII has a perfect 3rd C to E which helps give a landmark, and Kellner has the C E sharpened to beat at the same rate as the C-G is flattened. All the perfect fifths make these temperaments easy and tuning an organ in my youth I opted for Werkmeister III as being easy to tune with 8 perfect fifths.

    But with software on Android devices such as Easy Piano Tuner to which others have pointed, the good tuning and the time and the effort is in getting all the unisons pure so that with the electronic device, which temperament you chose isn't so important nowadays for the criterion of "easiest". However, perfect fifths do give landmarks which are great for checking.

    Best wishes

    David P

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    David Pinnegar BSc ARCS
    Curator and House Tuner - Hammerwood Park, East Grinstead, Sussex UK
    antespam@gmail.com

    Call for papers - Seminar 6th May 2019 - "Restoring emotion to classical music through tuning."
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  • 12.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Posted 03-30-2019 10:17

    with software on Android devices such as Easy Piano Tuner to which others have pointed, the good tuning and the time and the effort is in getting all the unisons pure so that with the electronic device, which temperament you chose isn't so important nowadays for the criterion of "easiest".
    David Pinnegar,  03-30-2019 09:29
    Yes, this was the point was trying get across in my post. Thanks David!

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    "That Tuning Guy"
    Scott Kerns
    www.thattuningguy.com
    Tunic OnlyPure, TuneLab & Smart Piano Tuner user
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  • 13.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-30-2019 09:44
    Could we get some clarification...
    Are you referring to "which temperament": Equal, Well, Historical, Meantone, etc.  
    OR
    "which temperament": Tuning style & procedure setting an equal temperament? (which 99% of pianos are set)

    TWO completely different answers.




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    Dave Foster, RPT
    Waterford MI
    248-431-8804
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  • 14.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Posted 04-02-2019 12:19
    I am referring to any temperament that has a closed circle of fifths and no wolf intervals.

    Examples:

    • The equal temperaments.
    • The quasi-equal temperaments.
    • The well temperaments.


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    Roshan Kakiya
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  • 15.  RE: Which temperament, based on your experience, is the easiest to tune?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-02-2019 13:01
    As stated, any temperament practiced a lot becomes relatively easy. On a good piano I can place an ET that will easily pass over 90% on the current PTG  exam in 3-5 minutes using only 3rds and 4ths. Alternatively, I use Bill Bremmer's EBVT often enough (without resorting to looking at my instruction card) that I can achieve that in 4-6 minutes on most pianos, mostly because it takes me longer to test and ensure perfect 5ths where called for. That issue does not exist with ET.

    Any other WT will take longer due to unfamiliarity. 

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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