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piano warmer

  • 1.  piano warmer

    Member
    Posted 10-21-2019 12:08
    I got a call to tune a piano. I got there and it's a second/future home up in the mountains. He had just got there so the place was 50 degrees with the forced air blowing sort of warm air. I told him I should come back when the place was warm. We then got into a discussion about how to keep the piano stable.

    He has a 7' 6" grand at his place in Sacramento so he got a P202 Yamaha for when he comes up. The place up the mountain doesn't get used enough for a full climate control system, it might sit for a month or more before being used.

    My plan is to put a heat bar in that is controlled by a thermostat and have him blanket the piano. Trial and error is fine but I was wondering if there was any experience out there as to how effective this will be.
    A 4 ft heat bar place as low to the pedals as possible.
    A $20 Honeywell baseboard heater thermostat (amazon) hung on the side about 18 inches higher than the bar. 
    Wool blankets or Moving blankets?
    Thanks

    ------------------------------
    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-21-2019 12:22
    I'm going to follow this to see what other people say, but remember a "heater bar" isn't to regulate heat; it's to regulate humidity. If it's cold, and the humidity is down, then the humidistat might not even kick on. If there is a heat source in the room, chances are that will lower the humidity even more when used. If the humidity is up when it's cold, a heater bar can make a big difference in tuning stability. If you cover the piano (not a bad idea) with a heater bar, that will keep the humidity more stable inside the piano & it won't have to turn on as often. I assume you don't intend to do this without a humidistat as that would turn the inside of the piano into a kiln, thereby destroying it, albeit slowly.

    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: piano warmer

    Member
    Posted 10-21-2019 12:52
    A kiln??? You know with the stat set at 70 degrees it turns off the heat. It probably has a +- 5 degrees. Sounds like we are keeping it at room temp. Yes it will be dry but the summer humidities are between 10% and 30% and winter is when you want a heat bar.
    The bar only works for short periods of time and with enough insulation to mitigate heat loss, the piano should be happy. 
    I think this would be better than a small portable base board heater placed under the tent.

    ------------------------------
    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-21-2019 13:01
    The humidistat turns it on when the humidity, not temperature, goes above 42% & off when it goes below. That means it's mostly on in the summer & mostly off in the winter if you are in a climate like mine in WV. Regardless of temperature, if it is dry, the humidistat keeps it off.

    Yes, a kiln. Ask me how I know & how many repairs I've done because well meaning tuners put these into pianos without a humidistat, thereby doubling the dryness in the winter, separating glue joints including those in the pin block.

    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-21-2019 13:10
    I went back & read your first post. I missed the word "thermostat". Sorry; reading on phone. All I can say is that these same principles apply & it would be very unwise to heat it in any season that might be dry. Temperature and humidity are intertwined.

    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: piano warmer

    Member
    Posted 10-21-2019 13:48
    Exactly, most likely after consideration, stabilizing the humidity will probably be better than stabilizing the temp. The bar should be on most of the winter and that will keep the piano slightly warmer. A cover would be nice. 
    Has anyone experimented with a dual system? The humidity can drop around here when it snows. Then it would need some added heat.
    Having lived up here 45 years, I know what it's like to open up a cold cabin. It really takes a full day or two to chase the cold out. The humidifier systems need a baby sitter so I don't install them.

    ------------------------------
    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-21-2019 14:16
    Crazy & possibly stupid (brainstorming) thought (LOL):
    What would happen if you put one heater bar in a piano with a thermostat, then installed a full DC system (w/x-lg water tank) with it? I'm not suggesting this; it just popped into my head. 😜

    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: piano warmer

    Posted 10-21-2019 14:18
    It is important to understand that in a humidity control system such as we typically use in pianos, the heater bar (I'm not referring to the one draped with a wet pad) comes on when the humidity is too high, not when it is too low.  Raising the temperature in the piano lowers the relative humidity.  If it snows, and the ambient humidity drops, the helpful move is to add moisture, not to add heat.  If there is nobody around to babysit a water tank, it's better to let the temperature of the piano follow the temperature of the cabin.  If your climate is anything like mine, humidity is high in the summer.  That's when the heater bar is needed.

    ------------------------------
    Floyd Gadd
    Regina SK
    306-502-9103
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-21-2019 14:11
    So do we have any information about reliability and consistency/accuracy of the Dampp-Chaser units, especially the humidistat part? How do we know the humidistat is giving us 42%? Is there a recommended procedure to check?  How long do the humidistats hold up? I haven't installed a lot of the units, but I tend to install and then do no more than check/replace pads and look at mineral buildup and bucket condition. But nothing lasts forever. 

    Richard West





  • 10.  RE: piano warmer

    Member
    Posted 10-21-2019 14:20
    Dammp chaser units are only reliable as the owner chooses to be. Some owners can't keep a plant alive even when they are there to put water in. When you aren't there to put water in, they are not very reliable.
    Margaret put it correctly in a private to me:
    I'm not kidding, though. A 25 watt heater bar in a piano when it is dry can reduce the humidity down to 3 or 4%. That is dangerous for a piano. I've had hammers pop off, glue joints let go, warpage, and split pin blocks. It's amazing how much damage can happen. Temperature and humidity are intertwined; don't heat any piano unless you also have something to raise the humidity level to keep it close to 42%. Sorry if I'm being directive, but I've learned a lot of this from previous tuners who ruined pianos. 

    I realize she is right and won't go that way.

    ------------------------------
    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: piano warmer

    Member
    Posted 10-21-2019 14:27
    As far as a dual system, the dammp chaser, basically is always on, because it uses the dehumdifier to circulate the air. The cycling of the system creates a more even climate in the piano. The side effect is the reservoir needs filling consistently.

    ------------------------------
    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: piano warmer

    Posted 10-21-2019 15:00
    We're running 30-something systems here in the Department of Music at the University of Regina.  A couple of summers ago I stuck a data logger to the control unit of several of the systems and let it run for a few days.  I was able to get a picture of the upper and lower set points of the control units.  In some cases, because the ambient humidity was so high, I sealed the piano cabinet openings, especially above the kick board, with masking tape to enable the temperature rise high enough drive the humidity down to reach the lower set point.  In some pianos I even temporarily installed an extra heater bar to get my reading.  If I had done this at a less humid time of the year, this would not have been necessary.  I did learn that the set points were not completely consistent from unit to unit, and that one of our oldest units (one of our H1's) was behaving erratically and needed replacing.

    ------------------------------
    Floyd Gadd
    Regina SK
    306-502-9103
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: piano warmer

    Posted 10-21-2019 19:34
    I wouldn't worry so much about the humidity, unless you really need the income generated from installation. I advise people with their second residence to be more concerned about creating a warm place for mice to build a home.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: piano warmer

    Member
    Posted 10-21-2019 20:47
    Hey thank you! 
    As far as whether I should or not install the dehumidifier, I find they really help here in the winter. The thing to remember is that on the west coast it is Wet in Winter. Dry in Summer. The added temperature slows down the unison creep and the amount it goes sharp from summer to winter is greatly reduced.
    Thanks Floyd, for mentioning that the air flow needs to be kept down. A solid draft can be created with a temp differential like we see. Wood stoves show 35% above on the mantle will be over 50% across the room. I checked that out here. Might be different where you are.

    ------------------------------
    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: piano warmer

    Posted 10-22-2019 06:40
    Keith R. wrote: "Wood stoves show 35% above on the mantle will be over 50% across the room."

    I don't understand what you wrote. Can you explain further?


    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: piano warmer

    Member
    Posted 10-22-2019 10:51
    Sorry, I tend to clip things short. 
    The humidity gauge will read 35% on the mantle above a wood stove in the winter and 50% across the room. I deal with a lot of wood stoves and people think it drys out the place. It does but not as much as you wood think,,,, haha. 
    Here in the mountains, you have to treat each situation as an individual climate. The condition on the south ridge tops are not the same 1/2 mile away in the shady gully.


    ------------------------------
    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: piano warmer

    Posted 10-21-2019 20:20
    It doesn't matter what the piano sounds like when no one is there to play it.
    When he arrives and turns on the heat, he should open the piano. Give it 48 hours to  acclimate to room temperature, strings and plate, then tune it.
    If the piano gets cold, it will go out of tune somewhat. Sharp and possibly in tune with itself.
    When it is warmed back to the tuning temperature, it will come back in tune as it was when you tuned it.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: piano warmer

    Member
    Posted 10-21-2019 23:59
    I am not sure you want to use a thermostat from amazon to control a 4 foot heat bar on a piano covered with blankets. Any type of malfunction could end up torching the piano and house. Stick with the proper Dampp-Chaser/Piano Life-Saver which is UL rated &  inside the piano with the correct humidistat unit but remember it is there to drive off excess humidity not heat up the piano to keep it warm. Forced hot air is a very drying way to heat so it is probably a good idea to explore some form of central humidification system and/or room humidification if heat is really driven humidity down. How cold will the inside of the home get in winter ? perhaps putting some type of thermal blanket over the
    piano will help but the 4 ft heat bar/thermostat/blankets sounds dangerous.

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: piano warmer

    Posted 10-22-2019 07:23

    Keith R. wrote: "stabilizing the humidity will probably be better than stabilizing the temp." and Margaret J. wrote: "...one heater bar in a piano with a thermostat, then installed a full DC system...)"

    Keith and Margaret have pretty much hit the nail on the head. Pianos are constructed of wood and metal. Changes in relative humidity affect wood expansion and contraction more than temperature. Temperature changes affect metal expansion and contraction more than humidity. I don't have any specific scientific knowledge of whether changes in wood or metal effect tuning stability more, but my 
    anecdotal (and rumors!) suggest that relative humidity changes are the dominant effect on piano tuning stability. But both effect tuning stability.

    So how to provide a stable environment for a piano. You basically have good, better and best options. Good would be to hermetically seal the piano in a water-vapor proof enclosure that is thermally stabilized. That is somewhat prohibitive to implement. Better would be to stabilize relative humidity for the piano environment. That is done by either installing a GOOD humidity-control system (adequate heat and water and a back/bottom cover - and a cover over piano if possible) on the piano itself, or better yet, whole room humidity control. Best would be to stabilize & optimize both relative humidity AND temperature. That would be done with an approach that Margaret J. described as "crazy and possibly stupid" - her idea is neither crazy nor stupid. If the piano environment (relative humidity and temperature) will not be under whole room control, then exactly as Margaret described - install a complete (and adequate) Damp-Chaser system, cover the piano, and install an adequate regulated heat source under the cover. I'm not sure it would be worth the effort, but one could construct a box to cover the piano from cardboard or insulation panels to isolate the piano environment. Of course, whole-room temperature and humidity control would be optimal, but the topic here is how to best work around that.

    But installing a thermostat heater bar either in the piano or within a cover over the piano is a potential disaster for the piano. Different areas of the country have very different indoor environments. Much of the North American midwest has warm humid summers and cold winters. The outdoor humidity in those winters is often high, but indoor where the temperature is raised, the relative humidity often can be very low. In such a case, adding heat could dry out the wood in the piano even further. Folks tend to think that here in Florida we have a tortuous environment for piano. However, most pianos are indoors and most homes have air conditioning. The modern air-conditioned home in Florida is one of the kindest environments for pianos. During our hot humid summers, AC use keeps the indoor humidity at near optimal levels for pianos. It is during the winter that indoor relative humidity can very quite a bit. Sometimes it is relatively dry outside and indoors the humidity will tend to be near optimal. However, we can have some wet weather in the winter - and it doesn't get cold enough for home-owners to turn the heat on - it can get rather humid in homes during stretches like that. 

    I think the bottom line is to control relative humidity with a proper and adequate Damp-Chaser system (here in Florida we really do not have a pressing need for the humidifier portion of those systems - but elsewhere it is usually beneficial). Seal the piano us somehow - either with a back/bottom cover, quilted cover over the piano (to the floor), or a box of some sort over the piano. If one can add temperature control somehow, that would be great - but I think it would only be a workable option if one had some sort of insulated box over the piano. But whatever one does, do NOT regulate heat with a thermostat only!!!



    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-22-2019 07:40
    Hi Terry,

    Thank you for your information.  The one area I have issue with is the cover.  In conversation with Dampp-Chaser's main engineer I was told the unit needs to breath.  He said a vinyl cover is not a good idea, nor is a floor length cover.  For a grand a macintosh body length cover with an undercover is best according to him.  I have tried his suggestion and found it to be true so far. 

    Thanks for all your insights.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Coates
    Sioux Falls SD
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: piano warmer

    Posted 10-22-2019 09:21
    Tim C. wrote: "In conversation with Dampp-Chaser's main engineer I was told the unit needs to breath."

    Very interesting. I'm not going to try to argue that point because I am not an expert with the Dampp-Chaser system - I think I am knowledgeable, but by no means any sort of expert. I do have a strong science educational background and hence reasonable - I think - opinions. I'm curious why a Dampp-Chaser system would "need to breathe". I wonder if it stems from use of the humidification portion of the system (
    which I don't used here in central Florida). I could see where having the water tank under the piano could result in excess water vapor in a small enclosed environment. I guess if you think of it, you enclose the piano in a good floor-length cover or a box with an ever-present water source, water is going to evaporate until it come to equilibrium with its environment - which, yes, would certainly result in a too-high-humidity environment for the piano regardless of how many dehumidification heater rods one might install (like if a box offered a 100% seal, we're talking 100% relative humidity at equilibrium regardless of the temperature!!!). So yeah, I do see how a sealed environment wouldn't work with the full system. I do think it would work great with just the dehumidification system. But a floor-length cover - I do have to admit that I cannot envision a cover like that isolating the environment enough that an excess of water vapor would be retained in the environment. But it is certainly true that if one has a adequately sized/configured full Dampp-Chaser system on the piano, there would indeed be NO need for the more full enclosures I have described. So perhaps a good point.

    I think my thought of a floor-length cover originated from indoor environmental conditions here in central Florida. I only install dehumidification systems and oftenrecommend floor-length covers. I sure hope my recommendations are best practice. But I think that with the dehumidification-system-only there is not concern with excess humidity buildup (I mean like, what would be the source of water vapor?) and there is always some bit of circulation with the outside (outside of the piano cover) room environment. I think I am good with that recommendation.

    Thoughts? Maybe I'm still out in left field......  :-(      (Dog-gone, where is the emoji button?!?!?!?  Margaret?)

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: piano warmer

    Member
    Posted 10-22-2019 11:06
    Vinyl covers cause things to sweat. They can get a head of moisture under it if the room environment cools the top of the cover, causing condensation of the rising humidified air under the cover. That's why I suggested wool. The properties of wool are such that it seems to have the proper organic transfer of moisture and temperature. 
    Control of the draft created by the heat source, to me, seems to be a detail that should be dealt with. A blanket over the piano

    ------------------------------
    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-23-2019 09:06
    Draft---yes. Pianos might benefit from a floor length cover because of that alone. Large auditoriums with huge HVAC blowers, etc. One colleague blames most of the instability in a particular piano in the School of Music on big blowers.  The problem is that pianists hate dealing with them, and they are expensive. Also, in a church, for example, it spoils the look of a grand piano on the stage.

    ------------------------------
    Cindy Strehlow, RPT
    Urbana, IL
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-22-2019 14:17
    Aside -

    Terry said, "(Dog-gone, where is the emoji button?!?!?!? Margaret?)"

    Maggie replies in Richard West style:

    BAHAHAHAHA!!!   😂

    I've been told there are some browsers that support emojis and you can insert them, but I use either Firefox or Ghostery and have never found this feature if it exists on those. 😳 See if your browser has that option. 🤔  Phones typically have them available from their keyboard by default. 📱 If not, you can copy paste from sites like this: https://coolsymbol.com/emojis/emoji-for-copy-and-paste.html   

    I've always wanted them plus a "like" button, but...meh...too many of us would get carried away with them. 😉 Copying and pasting is typically too much trouble for me to bother with. 😜

    Later 🐊
    Maggie

    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-23-2019 11:45
    Maggie,

    I would be interested in whatever pointers you have for undercover installation.  I think I want to start adding this on standard installs. Have one to do next week. 

    Oddly enough, I've been putting vinyl-like covers on grands for several years now with very good (and no bad) results. Increases stability significantly. 

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: piano warmer

    Member
    Posted 10-23-2019 11:58
    Peter, you are in New Hampshire. That explains a lot. 
    The east coast doesn't have the same problems and NH is,,, well I made it through two winters there. 
    When you have cold drafts the air is dry. When we have cold drafts the air is wet. The condensation aspects of the vinyl are different. East coast summer you turn on central AC and dry the air. Evaporative coolers are used a lot out here. The air is dry.

    ------------------------------
    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: piano warmer

    Posted 10-24-2019 14:36
    This is an interesting topic, to me at least. Lots of good information so far, but some that is not quite correct. I'll try my best to explain from our (DC's) point of view what could be done.
    Undercovers do, for a certainty, help with maintaining the environment under the piano, especially in high air movement situations. They are beneficial in virtually all situations, but due to the fact that they're a bit of a pain to install, an extra cost, and not necessarily a cosmetic plus, they often are not installed. The wider the range of humidity the piano is subjected to, the greater the benefit.
    A full System will almost always be the best solution to humidify fluctuations. There are two common exceptions to this rule though. Areas, like Florida, where the RH is never dangerously low is the first exception. The second one is absentee piano owners. If there is nobody available to add water to the PLSS, there's not much point in having a full System. 
    If the people are not going to be around for extended periods of time and the heat will be considerably lower during that time, I would NOT recommend a "heater" to keep the piano warm. The ambient RH in the house with the heat set low will be relatively high due to the low temperature. While low temp will affect the tuning, it will not be harmful to the structure of the piano. If you incorporate a heater under a blanket, you're going to lower the RH pretty significantly, which could harm the piano. If you installed a dehumidify-only System with an H-D Humidistat and a 48-50A Dehumidifier, it will respond to low RH levels by adding heat, but it will not respond to low temperatures at all. I just looked up the weather in Hathaway Pines. 77° and RH of 13%. Wowzers. These numbers equate to a dew point of 22°. If we assume a similar dew point during colder weather and lower the temperature to 50°, the RH level climbs to 35%. It would appear that this is typical for the area conditions. In a situation like this, if the Dehumidifier is plugged into a Humidistat, it would likely never come on. 
    My conclusion, therefore, is that adding any heat to this situation without some way of adding humidity as well would be dangerous to the piano. If you tune the piano when it has been sitting in a stable temperature environment for long enough to equalize, and then it goes for a month in the cold, when it gets warmed up again, it will be relatively close to where it started. Concert stage perfect? No. I think the customer has to have realistic expectations though. Make them aware, if they aren't already, that this is not an ideal situation. 
    A dehumidify-only System that would safeguard against ultra-low temperature-induced condensation in the piano is likely your best bet. No cover, no added heat. 

    P.S. For anyone interesting in the relationship between RH, Temp, and Dew Point, go to a website called Dew Point Calculator. They have a very handy interactive tool that makes it easy to see how each reacts to a change in the other. Unfortunately, it is not mobile-friendly, so you'll have to do it from an actual computer, no phones or tablets. 
    If anyone has questions about any of my rambling you can put them here or call or email me if you want.

    ------------------------------
    Charles Rempel
    Dampp-Chaser Corporation
    Hendersonville NC
    828-692-8271
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-28-2019 14:16
    Thank you, Charles!

    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: piano warmer

    Member
    Posted 10-28-2019 14:54
    At what level of RH IS THE HUMIDIFIER BAR ACTIVATED ? I HAVE A FULL SYSTEM IN MY CONSOLE PIANO AND IN MY YAMAHA G2 . I add water to the tanks when the low level light comes on which could be once a month or even more .  SINCE THE HUMIDITY HERE IS MOSTLY HIGH THROUGHOUT THE YEAR
    DEHUMIDIFIER RODS ARE ON MOST OF THE TIME. Air conditioning has a drying effect so I am wondering how much water is just evaporating from the tank or does the smart heater bar trip at rh levels in the 30 s ..?   I have a church client with a Yamaha C6 that is finally budgeting to care of the piano and I will be installing a full system with undercover . REadings from a data logger that was in the piano for close to 3 weeks showed rh consistantly in the low to mid 60% range and this was after the peak months of July and August..
    The church is huge with high cathedral ceilings and during fall and winter will likely be much warmer  from central heat and large congregations I believe an undercover will help the system perform better as well as disguise the system 




    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: piano warmer

    Posted 10-29-2019 08:04

    The "target" level of the System is between 42-25% RH (sensor production tolerance) but in reality, nothing happens at the target level. All the activity happens at the switch points. This means that the Humidifier will be activated when the sensor reads a level that is 1-2% below the target, it switches to humidify and when it reads 1-2% above the target, it switches to dehumidify. In all cases, a reading of somewhere in the 30s would mean it was humidifying.
    In your location James, I would say that most of the water in the tank is leaving by passive evaporation. Unless the datalogger indicated a period of time where the RH was significantly below the mid-40s, I'm not sure a full System is necessary or even desirable. Undercovers are pretty much always beneficial though. If you do have a period of lower RH, but if high throughout the whole spring-summer-fall season, you might want to ignore the water light (or unplug the light panel) during that time. I would only recommend that if you personally are in charge of the care and feeding of the System. I would never recommend that to a piano owner. It would be too easy, as a normal person (not afflicted with piano technicianitis) to get out of the watering habit and forget to add water again when the dry season arrived.



    ------------------------------
    Charles Rempel
    Dampp-Chaser Corporation
    Hendersonville NC
    828-692-8271
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-29-2019 08:41
    Charles,
    Did you mean 42-52%?

    ------------------------------
    Gary Bruce, RPT
    Bruce Piano Service
    Edmond, OK
    405-413-TUNE
    www.brucepiano.com
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: piano warmer

    Posted 10-29-2019 09:07
    Not a good morning apparently. I meant 42-45%. I shud poof reed sumtines.

    ------------------------------
    Charles Rempel
    Dampp-Chaser Corporation
    Hendersonville NC
    828-692-8271
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: piano warmer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-29-2019 08:14
    The Smart Bar doesn't respond to humidity level, James. It trips when the humidifier is out of water.

    Bob Anderson, RPT
    Tucson, AZ

    ------------------------------
    Robert Anderson
    Tucson AZ
    520-326-4048
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: piano warmer

    Posted 10-29-2019 09:04
    I will correct a typo in my earlier post that Robert pointed out and then correct one in his last post. I believe that makes it a tie. 
    I did not intend to say "If you installed a dehumidify-only System with an H-D Humidistat and a 48-50A Dehumidifier, it will respond to low RH levels by adding heat, but it will not respond to low temperatures at all."  Of course, that is not correct. It will respond to HIGH humidity levels by adding heat.
    Now, to tie the game. Robert, James does not mention the Smart Bracket in his post, he references the Humidifier bar. 


    ------------------------------
    Charles Rempel
    Dampp-Chaser Corporation
    Hendersonville NC
    828-692-8271
    ------------------------------