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Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

  • 1.  Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-06-2020 19:53
    Here is the response I got from our state's OSHA department.

    Good afternoon, Cy Shuster:

     

    I hope all is going well for you. My name is Ken Marshall,  I'm a health consultant for NM OHSB (OSHA). I have received the consultation request form you submitted online. Thank you for sending in the request!

     

    As for your specific request you ask for "guidance in being able to safely work in people's homes, where I'll spend two hours touching their piano, which they will then in turn spend a lot of time touching. Can the virus be transmitted from hard surfaces in the piano to my metal tools? Do I need to disinfect tools between each customer?"

     

    Answer: yes and yes…

     

    Additional information:

     

    The transmission route for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes the COVID-19 infection, is continually being evaluated. I have not come across any specific evidence involving pianos and metal tool transmission; but there is evidence to suggest that SARS-CoV-2 is able to cling to these hard surfaces, then be transferred to you or someone else either by direct contact or becoming re-aerosolized. So, the best practice would be to decontaminate these tools with an EPA recommended chemical after each potential exposure. The decontamination process should be done as soon as possible (before getting into your vehicle) to limit the potential spread. In general you should approach each customer with the suspicion that there is SARS-CoV-2 inside their home and your customer is actively shedding the virus, or you have it and will be shedding it too. That said, OSHA does have a webpage that addresses 'in-home repair services'. For the most part, so long as you are not entering a home with someone suspected of having COVID-19 or known to have it, then the risk level to you is 'medium' for Albuquerque and much of NM. If you do go into a home with someone suspected or known to have COVID-19 then the risk would be 'high'. The 'very high' risk is going into someone's home who is known to have COVID-19 and there is no way to isolate you from them or there is activities within the work space that could re-aerosolize SARS-CoV-2 (using compressed air for cleaning the piano or dry sweeping?) I would recommend that you stay out of the high or very high exposure risk category. If your work practice involves generating dust then you really need to try to eliminate that practice or implement an engineer control to mitigate the risk to yourself.

     

    The recommendations OHSA puts forth in 'in-home repair services' contain very useful information; please look over that webpage. OSHA's website on COVID-19, as well as the CDC is being updated as new information becomes available. I recommend that you look into wearing in addition to the cloth facemask Gov. Grisham has talked about, a pair of cotton coveralls (or some other easily removed outer garment), along with foot & hair coverings. This serves a couple of purposes: first, it tells your customer that you have their wellbeing in mind, and second, taking these items off prior to entering your vehicle will lessen the chance of spreading the virus. The coveralls can be placed in a plastic bag to be decontaminated later at home or laundry mat. The boot & hair coverings dispose of along with any disposable gloves you might have on during the work. Leave your facemask on while you take off the coveralls, boot and head cover. I know this sounds like an over-kill but this virus is spreading in ways previously not thought to be of any importance. So what sounds like an over-kill now might turn out to be a common practice tomorrow. Frequent use of hand sanitizer/washing hands is important. Especially when taking off these layers of clothing (personal protective equipment or PPE). It is not known how many viral particles of SARS-CoV-2 is required to become sick with COVID-19, so the lowest possible exposure is going to be best.

     

    Keep in mind that these steps you, & everyone else, are implementing are very unique and will add time to your schedule. Be sure to plan accordingly. By you demonstrating these practices in front of your customers sends a strong message to them and the community that you value them and their on-going commitment to stopping the spread of this virus.

     

    Cy, I hope this helps to answer your question. The consultation service offered by OSHA is normally done in person, so doing this from home via e-mail presents some challenges for both of us. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.   

     

    Regards,

     

    Ken Marshall

    Health & Safety Consultant

    New Mexico Environment Department

    Occupational Health and Safety Bureau

    121 Tijeras Avenue NE, Suite 1000

    Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102-3400

    Office:  (505) 222-9591

    Kenneth.Marshall@state.nm.us

    https://www.env.nm.gov/occupational_health_safety/consultation-program/

     

    Twitter: @NMEnvDep | #IamNMED

     

    "Innovation, Science, Collaboration, Compliance"



    ------------------------------
    Cy Shuster, RPT
    Albuquerque, NM
    http://www.shusterpiano.com
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-06-2020 20:45
    Thanks so much, Cy. The link regarding in-Home repair was also quite interesting.

    ------------------------------
    Patrick Draine
    Billerica MA
    978-663-9690
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-07-2020 11:23
    The OSHA response is for a blanket question with faulty details. As the question was phrased, it implied that the tools would contact surfaces the customer touched (or perhaps breathed or coughed or sneezed on) regularly. This is quite simply not the case for home service tuning, is it? At any rate, it needn't be.

    I'd like to offer a counterbalancing perspective, with practical considerations for how we can proceed to act responsibly in returning to servicing pianos, at least standard tuning calls.
    • Interview, conversation with customer, confirming that both are symptom free, that there has been no contact with infected people, and that you have been engaged in social distancing
    • Tuner will arrive with mask and gloves, and they will stay on for the duration.
    • Door will be unlocked, tuner will open and close it (using gloves).
    • Customer and others in the house will maintain distance at all times, will retreat to another room while piano is tuned.
    • Contact of tools with the piano will be normal: ie, the interior of the tuning hammer tip will contact a small portion of each tuning pin; mutes and ETD, etc. will be placed on plate web or interior of upright, in areas the customer is unlikely to have touched or to touch in the future.
    • Payment: if by check, the check will be placed where the tuner can pick it up; alternately (recommended) use Venmo, PayPal, or the like.

    No need for Hazmat suit, no need for tool disinfection.

    Methods will need to vary for densely populated areas, but for where I live, this will work very safely and responsibly. (Single family homes, I drive from my house to theirs, I have close contact with nobody en route). 


    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-07-2020 12:14
    It's definitely a worst-case scenario. But the blanket question applies: how to work in a home environment during a pandemic of a highly contagious virus?

    It's very possible that either you or your customer, or both, are completely asymptomatic, and yet can be shedding the virus. So you need to protect yourself from the customer, and vice versa. An interview is not the equivalent of a diagnostic test for matters of public health. The cost of an error is high. Did you ever get a tear in a glove from a fingernail?

    An upright is more protected, but one sneeze over a grand will definitely cover some tuning pins and a lot of keys. Sometimes your screwdriver will touch fallboard screws that are easily touched by a customer. 

    Notice the general guidelines for in-home repairs. If the work is not urgent, consider postponing it and (their emphasis) not entering the dwelling until the COVID-19 pandemic ends. https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/covid-19/in-home-repair.html

    Population density is not a factor. Anyone can easily come within six feet of a dozen people in a grocery store or post office, or live with someone who has. Until there's any kind of effective treatment, for me as a high-risk person, I'm unwilling to take that risk. YMMV, as they say.

    --Cy--

    ------------------------------
    Cy Shuster, RPT
    Albuquerque, NM
    http://www.shusterpiano.com
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-08-2020 03:16
    Cy,

    You are quite correct in your assessment of the risks involved in home service and your insistence on disinfection of tools, etc., but there is still a place for an "interveiew" prior to scheduling an appointment. You need to ascertain the potential client's willingness to abide by safety measues such as distancing, etc. An important factor to consider is the the presence of children or teenagers, and how willing or able are the clients to control their behavior. Yesterday I spoke with a parent who wasn't sure that he'll be able to keep the kids out of the piano room. So I told him that he should make arrangements for the kids to be elsewhere at the time I'll be working on his piano, and contact me after he has done so. Kids are just as likely to be asymptomatic carriers of the virus, and their behavior can be unpredictable and sometimes uncontrollable.

    Speaking of torn gloves, I have been wearing them any time I leave the home for the past month or so, and they tear quite easily when stressed by some of the most common actions we do with our hands. Once I discovered a tear without knowing how it happened. So it's a good idea to carry plenty spares and a bottle of alcohol gel disinfectant for when gloves tear - and they definitely will. 

    It has been quite sobering for me to examine the itineraries of infected persons' compiled through contact tracing that have been posted on-line by the Health Ministry here. They list the places these persons were and the days/times they were there two weeks prior to their having developed symptoms (or tested positive if asymptomatic). On several of these itineraries were places that I had been at, sometimes on the same day - fortunately, not at the same time as the cases. (No they don't post their names - just ordinal case numbers unique to the listing and gender) This is why I wear a mask and gloves whenever outside my home.

    ------------------------------
    Israel Stein RPT
    P.O. Box 68141
    Jerusalem, Israel 9168002
    510-558-0777
    istein248@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-08-2020 10:18
    I admit that I may be more afraid than others of getting this thing and having a painful death as I turn 70. I'm even more afraid of surviving a protracted, painful illness, and being left with ongoing health issues and thousands of dollars of debt. Yet I'm most afraid of being a silent carrier, having no symptoms, and especially in churches and institutions (nursing homes!) infecting hundreds of others, when our most urgent public health goal is to reduce R0, the reinfection rate, below 1.25. We go from piano to piano like a bee from flower to flower.

    If I could get tested several times a week, and know I'm OK, that would help. If my customers had been tested, that would help. Yet I could still touch a gloved hand to a doorknob and pick up something that would linger for days, and infect any non-resident of the home who happens by. And we still don't have a treatment, much less a vaccine.

    I'm lucky in that I don't have to work to eat (if I'm careful). Otherwise, the cost/benefit analysis is off the charts. I want to see all of you next year in July! Please keep sharing best practices.

    --Cy--

    ------------------------------
    Cy Shuster, RPT
    Albuquerque, NM
    http://www.shusterpiano.com
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-08-2020 11:31
    The thing is, nobody but us is going to come up with practical protocols for piano technicians, because nobody but us has a good idea of the particulars of our work. There will be official protocols for barbers, for restaurants, for massage therapists, etc., but we will be thrown into a miscellaneous category with plumbers and the like, which may or may not be appropriate. 

    Most of us will need to do our work over the next year or decade while immunization or cure are found, or Covid fades into the background as yet another ill in the world. So we need to be proactive in considering carefully how we will behave. As an older demographic, most of us need to be careful personally because we are at greater risk.

    But the bottom line is that there is no possibility of 100% certainty, so we need to come up with a mode of activity that reduces the risk to a reasonable practical degree, depending on our circumstance. Home service is pretty benign and controllable for the most part. University music departments are far more troublesome to deal with. 

    For home service, one can pretty much reduce the actual personal contact to one on one in most cases, and maintain distance. Then it becomes a matter of mitigating possible environmental issues of surfaces and whatnot.

    When 20,000+ students and 5,000+ faculty and staff all congregate on a campus, though, the risks are inevitably higher, and the protocols are far less definitive. Churches and the like fall between the extremes of home service and educational institutions, but usually you can minimize person to person contact. 

    As far as I can see, the only really workable solution for the university is creating a culture of shared mutual responsibility, with behaviors that are adopted as universally as possible. 
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." Mompou






  • 8.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Posted 05-08-2020 15:03
    This article may help thinking about acceptable and unacceptable risks

    https://erinbromage.wixsite.com/covid19/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

    <Choir: The church choir in Washington State. Even though people were aware of the virus and took steps to minimize transfer; e.g. they avoided the usual handshakes and hugs hello, people also brought their own music to avoid sharing, and socially distanced themselves during practice. A single asymptomatic carrier infected most of the people in attendance. The choir sang for 2 1/2 hours, inside an enclosed church which was roughly the size of a volleyball court.

    Singing, to a greater degree than talking, aerosolizes respiratory droplets extraordinarily well. Deep-breathing while singing facilitated those respiratory droplets getting deep into the lungs. Two and half hours of exposure ensured that people were exposed to enough virus over a long enough period of time for infection to take place. Over a period of 4 days, 45 of the 60 choir members developed symptoms, 2 died. The youngest infected was 31, but they averaged 67 years old. (ref)>



    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-08-2020 18:05
    Yes, choirs are particularly prone to share viruses, especially if their director insists on clear diction. One should definitely avoid choir practices, or, indeed, choral concerts. I doubt this pertains to many piano service situations. It does demonstrate the reason we have HVAC systems in institutional buildings, though - complete exchange of air multiple times an hour.. 

    MTNA just posted some guidelines for opening private teaching studios, which may be useful for us.
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "Since everything is in our heads, we had better not lose them." Coco Chanel






  • 10.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Posted 05-08-2020 21:14
    Anyone know where to buy masks not made in China? I haven't looked locally yet, and won't need them for work until the end of May when I resume. (We are able to work now, but I'm recovering from a rotator cuff surgery, and will be out at least another 2 weeks.) Don't want to buy from China.

    ------------------------------
    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-08-2020 21:19
    Many opportunities for making your own. I've made 7 one for each of us the kids and grandkids. Done on a Singer treadle machine.

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Member
    Posted 05-10-2020 12:08
    Try Garment Décor, made in CA; https://garmentdecor.com/create/Face-Masks-Adult-Youth-Blank-Washable-Resuable?c=6090048

    ------------------------------
    John Ginter
    La Grange TX
    832-722-3033
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Posted 05-10-2020 13:26
    Thanks!

    I was able to buy some from Dean Reyburn's wife. The website is:

    JF






  • 14.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-19-2020 14:17
    This may have been discussed, so apologies if I'm behind the times.   My campus health and safety people have settled on hydrogen peroxide as an effective and safe keyboard sanitizing solution ( I see the Steinway people recommend it).  I'm told the "dwell time" for effective sanitizing is 8 minutes with the regular over the counter stuff, meaning the target surface needs to stay appearing "wet" for that period before wiping off.  Anybody have recommendations on the best way to apply this for the desired results without running between keys, etc?

    Thanks so much,

    Greg Granoff,  RPT
    Humboldt State Univ.
    CA





  • 15.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-19-2020 14:40
    Greg,

    Just out of curiosity, how often does your institution plan to clean high-use piano keyboards, such as in practice rooms? Between each use?Thanks for sharing your protocol for cleaning the keycaps. What about the sides of the keys? (Dirt and gouges on the sides of keysticks evidence all the contact that fingers make with these surfaces.) And piano case parts (music desks, fallboards and other surfaces with which pianists come into contact)? How much time, if any, are the rooms allowed to sit between users (to allow aerosols to settle), including cleaners, if they are someone other than the piano users?

    We are currently grappling with these issues, so your input would be helpful.

    Thanks,

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-19-2020 18:11
    Alan,
    Sounds like we're all pretty much in the midst of the same struggle to find a practical, efficient way forward that can be codified and duplicated whenever necessary.
    At this moment, our department's physically present student population has seen a pretty drastic shrinkage, and none are allowed to come to campus until Sep. 8, 3 weeks into the semester. Apparently there are plans to assign pianos individually, for students who can't practice at home, for the duration of the "in person" portion of the semester as much as possible.  The idea is that only one person using a piano makes the sanitary issue a good bit easier.  Good idea if you can make it work.  I suspect many other campuses wouldn't be able to make the numbers work.  

    At this moment, I don't think it's practical to expect everyone to sanitize a keyboard after using it.  Hand sanitizer is expected to be in every room, and I think being absolutely rigid about everyone sanitizing their hands before AND after playing--no exceptions--combined with trips by myself around to all the shared pianos a couple times a week to clean and sanitize should cover it.
    Over the next 2 1/2 weeks, every piano I'm prepping will receive a wash with a light solution of ammonia and water in the areas of the instrument's case that everyone touches for dirt and hand oil removal--including the keyboard for the same sort of dirt removal on black key sides. .  This should make the case surfaces ready for using a non-finish degrading product such as Clorox disinfectant wipes (no bleach) that are supposed to be benign to finished surfaces.  I have no idea what to do about the sides of key sticks.  Maybe the clorox wipes?  I'm certainly not going to remove keys and scrape the junk off the sides--no time for such stuff.   I will only use hp on the key tops since Steinway recommends that, though I have no evidence that the clorox wipes would hurt them.  All procedures where pre-treated wipes are not required will use heavy disposable shop-style paper towels.   Yes, even though our department is small, I'm going to be spending a lot of time doing this stuff.   Not looking forward to it.....
    In the end, I don't think there is a substitute for diligent personal hygiene.  It's getting the students to be deadly serious about it --being students after all--that is a tiresome task.
    .
    The health and safety people are saying 3 hours between room usages, when there has been more than one person, to clear aerosols as you mention.

    Hope that makes some things more clear.   It's all a work in progress.

    Best,
    Greg






  • 17.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-19-2020 18:58
    Thanks very much for your thorough response, Greg.

    Los Angeles County currently does not allow students on-campus at all for us. When they do return, we plan to use a cohort system for our practice rooms (and if we had more piano practice rooms, we would do what you are doing).

    Like you and so many others, we have arrived at the conclusion that personal hygiene is key, that people should assume that they are coming into contact with contaminated surfaces regularly, and take the appropriate precautions.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-20-2020 08:53
    HI-

    Our school is opening today with students on campus but online instruction only for the first 2 weeks. Everyone is also being tested twice and I have my second one today. I like Alan's comment that everyone needs to presume they are in contact with contaminated surfaces regularly and personal hygiene is the key.  Having said that, we have been using Hydrogen Peroxide since this started. It's effective, cheap and simple. Some of the precautions our institutions take could perhaps be a bit of overkill, but that's just how it is. There is so much at stake. I don't think the students would take it seriously enough if all these new rules weren't in place. We started our service early enough that by the time students do enter buildings every piano will have been tuned at least once.  That's a good start and go from there.  

    best to you all.... 
    Dennis. 

    --
    Dennis Johnson
    Piano Technician / Music
    Office: 507-786-3587Mobile: 612-599-6437 
    1520 St. Olaf Avenue Northfield, MN 55057






  • 19.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-20-2020 16:04
    Go to this website.  https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-n-disinfectants-use-against-sars-cov-2-covid-19

    It has a list of effective products and the length of contact time required.  Not all Peroxide products are created equal.  For most products 8 minutes is probably excessive, if it even remains wet that long.  I use wet wipes which I find the easiest to deal with.  Wiping the keys leaves a wet residue which you can leave for whatever period of time required and then wipe again with another wet wipe and then dry things off.  Dispose of the wipes and then disinfect your hands.   I'm not a fan of leaving ivory keys wet for an extended period of time as ivory is hygroscopic and the ivory can start to change dimensionally after a bit and that can weaken glue joints.  More important than the surfaces, however, is what's being done to prevent airborne contagion.  Are the rooms ventilated for a period before you go in?  Are students required to wear masks while using practice rooms or while in your proximity?

    My website David Love Piano Service and Restoration has my current list of protocols which all customers get in advance of any appointment (often multiple times).  Schools have tried to do a pretty good job of protecting students by initiating procedures to protect them.  It's not clear how thorough they are with students to control behavior that might affect us.  I would question those in charge of covid mitigation protocols to make sure that they are doing just that.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-21-2020 14:16
    Thanks for the helpful links, David.   I admire the thoroughness of your protocol setup.  What brand of wipe do you use?  I'm assuming it is benign to finishes so that wooden black key tops and nearby case areas are not in danger.
    I have Clorox wipes on hand that claim to be safe on "finished hardwoods", but not completely sure if that is entirely appropriate.  They seem to be OK so far.
    Ventilation issues are definitely in the mix, and at this point I'm trying to get a handle on just what level of ventilation is typical for one of our practice cubicles, for example, so that I can be sure to allow enough down time before I move in after someone has been in there. 
    The mitigation protocols here in terms of student behavior seem fairly thorough.   We are being told that shared classroom spaces will have an invading army of sanitizers each time the room is emptied to prepare for the next use.   My concerns there are that if any disinfectant sprays are used, that they are not an issue for pianos (obviously spraying piano interiors is a big no-no).   But what about keyboards and outer cases?  I'm trying to find out if directives are being given in this regard, and what they are.  My inclination would be to tell them to simply stay away from pianos, as they are being taken care of by someone else.

    Thanks again to everyone for your responses.
    Greg





  • 21.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-21-2020 14:28
    Different products have different contact times. For example, search for hydrogen peroxide as the active ingredient in this list. Some products need a minute, some need ten, some need 30.

    https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-n-disinfectants-use-against-sars-cov-2-covid-19

    Also see NAMM's list of instrument cleaning resources:

    https://www.namm.org/issues-and-advocacy/covid-19-updates-and-resources-business

    --Cy--

    ------------------------------
    Cy Shuster, RPT
    Albuquerque, NM
    http://www.shusterpiano.com
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-21-2020 16:31
    Note that on the EPA list, peroxide is generally listed at 1 minute, quaternary ammonium (as in Clorox wipes) or ethyl alcohol 30 seconds. 

    Soap and water is pretty universally timed at 20 seconds. I know it isn't as sexy and potent sounding as "disinfectants," but it IS a disinfectant. It IS a "chemical" substance. Call it by its official name of Sodium Stearate instead. Say that you have heard from a reliable source that sodium stearate is a faster and more efficient disinfectant than hydrogen peroxide.

    For purposes of satisfying the psychological needs of faculty, students, and the public, something besides soap and water may be necessary, but that is for PR reasons only, not for scientific ones. 

    In any case, transmission seems to be almost entirely via respiration, micro droplets expelled in breath into the air and breathed in by someone else. The idea of rushing in and sanitizing a room's surfaces between classes and the like is pure "make people feel like you are doing something." It's not the surfaces, it's the air that matters.They should rush in and clean the air :-)   Or maybe exhaust the air from the room and replace it with new, which is what HVAC is for, no need for people to rush in. Stagger classes by some larger than customary number of minutes, based on air exchange rates.

    Masks and ventilation are where it's at. Four air exchanges per hour has been the generally accepted absolute minimum for public spaces, with higher numbers for specific uses. Any reasonably recent public building should meet at least that 4 per hour minimum. Hospitals used to have a minimum of 12, now 20 to 40 is the norm.

    Filtration is also part of the picture, but it seems there is really no practical system that will reliably filter out viruses. 
    .
    Can someone in your physical plant department tell you what the exchange rate is in your building? Does that rate apply to all rooms in the building? Do all the practice rooms have two vents, intake and outflow?

    Here are EPA resources on the subject of air exchange and COVID It is basically a matter of how many people per cubic unit of space. If you lower occupancy, you lower air exchange needs, as common sense would tell you.



    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico






  • 23.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-21-2020 14:29

    Since wipes are basically alcohol, we're staying away from that.  It will eat the finish. I tried a drop of strong (91) on an old upright in my shop. Left a drop over night, and ate clear through the finish! We have installed cleaning stations throughout the building with strong paper towels and hydrogen peroxide as recommended by Steinway for keytops with complete instructions, not touching the finish.  Whether the students will comply is your guess as good as mine.  Also, ½ hour between practice times in each practice rooms for aerosols to settle.

     

    I personally think the students will comply for a couple or 3f weeks, and then get tired of it.  Our IT guy and I are guessing we will be shutting down by Sept 15.

     

    Paul






  • 24.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-22-2020 11:25
    Currently I'm using Lysol disinfectant wipes which you can find again these days.  The link I posted suggests it needs 2 minutes of exposure.  I also have some keybrite with bleach added (I think it's a teaspoon per 8 oz, I'll have to look it up).  I don't clean the entire case of the piano generally, just the high touch areas: fall board, music desk, stretcher, lid prop, and I don't let products sit on surfaces.  Always test first.  After using this products I then clean the keys with a benign cleaner, cory products, using disposable rags and those are thrown away just to remove any residue.  I have also used windex wipes for that.  Then I dry the surfaces, especially ivory, to insure they don't remain wet.  Then I disinfect my hands with a hand sanitizer or soap and water.  Using soap and water on piano surfaces is not practical for a variety of reasons.  

    Alcohol products can be hard on shellac surfaces especially.  Many old pianos use shellac on the sharps and you can get some streaking onto the naturals however it will wipe off easily.  Polyester surfaces are very durable I'm not sure anything can hurt them.  Lacquer surfaces are somewhere in between.

    Generally I'm less concerned with the fomites (surfaces) than I am with airborn exposure which is why I ask that the room be abandoned for a couple of hours and ventilated either by opening windows or, if that's not possible, by running a fan, that people wear masks when I arrive and for any interactions and that children are kept out of the area where I am working as they can be asymptomatic carriers.  Of course I ask that anyone with any symptoms of any type reschedule.    The university work I do doesn't involved practice rooms, just housing and it remains to be seen what I will be doing this term.  I don't think the university has quite figured it out.  If those pianos will be serviced I expect to be done before any students arrive but will still have to confirm with the university what the instructions are for students.  Most of the pianos I service are in lounges and so ideally I'd want those lounges abandoned for a period of time and students not present when I'm working.  It remains to be seen whether they will be able to comply.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-09-2020 21:21
    Marty Reyburn of Cybertuner is making masks. They come with one filter and then you need to buy more. They give a link on Amazon for getting more filters. The filter do all seem to come from China, based on the delivery times.
     
    ------------------------------------
    Aaron Bousel
    Registered Piano Technician
    413-253-3846


    Original Message





  • 26.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-09-2020 21:44
    Please feel free to call me out on this if I am full of crap, but I've been sewing 4 different kinds of masks, two of which can take a filter. I find filters quite laughable in home made masks because: 1) The filter doesn't go to the edges which have seams. 2) These seams have sewing needle holes through them, and some masks have sewing needle holes in other seams in the middle of the mask. 3) Even if you could get the filter to the edge, which you can't, the air goes around the edges all the time unless you tape it to your face. So, I've been using a mask made from very high thread count with a pretty good nose wire; when I get the nose wire just right, it actually is hard to breath through & seals rather well on inhales (not on exhales), so I figure...good enough. Since these masks aren't meant to protect us but those we might breathe on, I don't see how a filter does any good since the air really does go around it. Having said all that, I don't see how the filters hurt unless they give you a false sense of security or cost too much. 🤷


    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-09-2020 21:59

    Margaret

    Two people wearing a mask in proximity to each other just decreases the probability of transmission.  It doesn't guarantee it under any circumstances.  As many have pointed out it's probably more important for the infected person to be wearing the mask since it prevents projectile coughing to some degree.  If the mask is porous enough it will allow some penetration.  But the issue is not if you get "any" exposure, it's how much exposure.  You need to receive amount of the virus to get infected.  Wearing a mask helps on both sides.  


    BTW I don't think you're full of crap ;-)



    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-09-2020 22:01
    Margaret

    Here's something that might be useful to read

    https://erinbromage.wixsite.com/covid19/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-09-2020 22:05
    Mask I made.


    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-12-2020 22:14
      |   view attached
    David - I'm glad you don't think I'm full of crap. You'll definitely not think I'm full of crap when I clarify I did NOT mean that wearing a mask is pointless. On the contrary, I think they are ideal for exactly the reasons you mention. The ONLY thing I think is pointless is a filter in a sewn cloth mask. I think it's silly. BUT, to each his own. Like I said, they can't do any harm...unless they make it even harder to breathe. I made mine "too good" and can barely breathe through it. LOL! I did put a piano keyboard ribbon pocket for the nose wire and have made several for friends (see attached picture). I'm going to leave this one as is but make another with a slightly lower thread count so I can breathe. At least it's sealing rather well & will likely make a good dust mask in the future! LOL!


    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-13-2020 13:05
    Maggie, you made it all wrong! You put the keys on the bridge of your nose, instead of your keybed! :-) :-) :-)

    —Cy—




  • 32.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Member
    Posted 05-13-2020 15:39
    I would move the keys to the bottom so they where more like teeth . There is a line of shirts and sweatshirts out which have 3d faces of different dog breeds. .It would be quite rad to make a pull over mask with one of these

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Member
    Posted 05-13-2020 16:08
    Just a thought - take extra care with pets in the home while wearing a mask.  They may find the masks alarming and can't read your face like they normally do.

    Jewel





  • 34.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-09-2020 22:01
    My feelings exactly. For the nose wire I cut in 2" lengths the closure on coffee bags.

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 35.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-12-2020 22:15
    OMG...Larry... That is brilliant.

    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 36.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-10-2020 03:34
    Hi Aaron,
    Thanks for the mention. My wife Marty is an accomplished seamstress and I built her a small website at:  https://www.martysmasks.com

    My son Nate and I wear these out to the grocery store and hardware store, about the only places I go these days, other than our keyboard manufacturing shop.

    Marty's masks are very comfortable, quality hand made, and come in a variety of musical themes and sizes for piano techs and others.

    I believe that when we're going into homes to tune in the (hopefully near) future, customers will expect, or at least appreciate knowing ahead of time that we'll be wearing a mask. However facial recognition can be problematic with masks, so if you have a mask with pianos or other musical patterns, it's will ease things a bit as you can tell the customer "my mask has grand pianos (or music...) on it".

    The masks are $12, free shipping with order of 3 or more in the USA. There are 4 sizes, and she's adding a 5th size shortly, XXLarge for men with beards.

    All the masks are washable, and include standard a PM2.5 replaceable filter, which can be ordered from Amazon and other places. These filters have carbon and other elements which filter at the 2.5 micro level.

    Marty and I both hope these masks help our many piano tech friends out there in a small way, getting back to business.

    Best regards,

    -Dean Reyburn, RPT

    --
    1-888-SOFT-440  or 1-888-763-8440
    Reyburn Piano Service, Inc.
    http://www.cybertuner.com

    Reyburn Pianoworks
    Precision retrofit piano keyboards
    http://www.reyburnpianoworks.com






  • 37.  RE: Procedures for safely working in homes and institutions

    Posted 09-20-2020 08:45
    Hi all. We have a special program at our college that monitors students. So they try to regulate traffic to certain websites and student services like that fastessay.net/write-my-essay.html. Do you think this is generally legal? We are told that they are doing everything for our safety. That without this program, students will be vulnerable. Maybe I'm writing in the wrong forum thread, but still, I'm interested in your opinion. What should I do? Let everything remain as it is or not? Thank you.