I have given up on the Renner damper action for exactly the reason David Love cites. Towiwa fits better and accepts concentric pin simply.
I cut trichord middle deeper, squeeze the fat side if there is one, or on some pianos the unison spacing in the agraffes is off so the felt must pay. I have never chemically sized any dampers. Once you open grain alcohol to the air it takes on the ambient humidity very quickly so that is how it gets "wet".
I agree with David Brown that once you have a couple of damper action installations under your belt it goes rather quickly.
I despise capstans on the lift tray. (No offense to Mr. Hughes or anyone else. David's Journal article on installing a damper action is almost exactly what I hit on as well.)
Grand damper actions have underlevers, underlever top flanges, underlever flanges, sostenuto tabs or flanges, lift tray, damper wire sockets and screws, and end pins. (Tab springs, underlever springs lift tray spring and a couple other goodies.)
I still don't have a perfect model for how much felt where, how much underlever weight, or how much underlever spring is best.
I do like fitting a pinned pitman like Baldwin does.
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Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431
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Original Message:
Sent: 04-08-2021 20:43
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Damper felt Squeezing Pliers
David (Brown and whomever has input),
When you replace the back action do you install capstans in the tray to adjust final tray lift timing?
One of the only parts of this installation that went without hitch, was adjusting tray lift timing. I was dreading the S&S back action with no lift capstans, but found that with the bean bags and sizing with bean bags and weight, the tray timing went unexpectedly and pleasantly quick. I had expected a fight to the bitter end, getting the timing right.
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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
Original Message:
Sent: 04-08-2021 14:58
From: David Brown
Subject: Damper felt Squeezing Pliers
Hi Jim-
I jettisoned retaining the old damper actions on rebuilds quite a while ago for my own mental health. The ease with which you can install your beautifully prepared felts, heads and wires into a newly minted back action as opposed to fighting with an old one was more than worth it to me. When i was doing many short arm teflon ones at an institution I could knock the fabrication out in 5-6 hours. Less familiar one offs may have their own peculiarities to slow you down.
YMMV-
David
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David C. Brown RPT
Garland TX
tunermandb88.com
Original Message:
Sent: 04-08-2021 08:19
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Damper felt Squeezing Pliers
They were leaking on one side only, never in the middle. Also, generally, even having left the underlever springs on, the quality of the damping was less securely damped than I usually get. After the Profelt treatment, the quality of the damping was excellent.
The flats were not leaking, having used Laroueax flats I cut here, only the double trichords and hybrids. Actually, I will say, the bichords as well, and I'm pretty sure they bichords I chose were Japanese felts, instead of the Laroueax I usually use.
Thinking about it, I have to say I also fought with the back action, which is not usually an issue for me, even on not very good condition back actions. I had to drill out all the holes on the underlever flange (or whatever the flange with the little brass clamp dealy thing is called) to get entry into the flange. Kinda makes me think, maybe I should do more back action replacement on these rebuilds. However, on limited budget rebuilds, the money is just not there...except, on the other hand, this was an expensive set of dampers to get to damp anyway. There may be wisdom in jumping ship on an old back action, if its going to have elevated actual installation costs to me, no matter what decision I make. Any thoughts on the back action replacement benefits?
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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
Original Message:
Sent: 04-08-2021 00:50
From: David Love
Subject: Damper felt Squeezing Pliers
Which strings were leaking? Inside, outside, both? Were they Leaking on the hybrids or the all flats?
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David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
Original Message:
Sent: 04-07-2021 22:36
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Damper felt Squeezing Pliers
Just finished a new set of Dampers on an "L". I fought like the dickens to get the tri-chords and hybrids to damp well. Alignment was excellent. probably my best ever, but the felt just seemed non-conforming. I may have chosen a lousy trichord felt...It was a Pianotek generic felt, which is not the Laroix from Schaff, that I usually use. In chosing the felt the Pianotek seemed to nestle better...or not, apparently.
I have wet the felts with Profelt, and weighed them down with a beanbag and sash weights with success, and it helped significantly this time too. After the treatment and weights final tray pickup adjustment was quite easy,and the damping was excellent. But I don't think I will do it again, because it stains the felts, unless I can find something that does not use water as the vehicle to size and shape the felts (as Profelt does).
I have never used felt squeezing pliers to convince recalcitrant felts to behave. Do we have any experience out there. Do they actually work, as in give a lasting result. David Hughes in his damper article seems to feel they mostly give only temporary results.
Any ideas on non-water based sizing liquids?
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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
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