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Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

  • 1.  Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11 days ago
      |   view attached

    Friend of mine has his Grandfather's piano, a Henderson, that has been in family since new--his Grandfather worked for the piano manufacturer, Ann Arbor Organ Company (actually founding family, Allmendinger). I worked on it for him, and discovered this very strange bridge arrangement, never seen one before, look at photo. Some of them have broken, but since he's a machinist, he figures he can make new ones (and I think he can)--we are thinking that the parts are not likely available, but thought I'd ask around!

    David Dewey



  • 2.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Member
    Posted 11 days ago
    Those are bridge agraffes. ANy chance you could get a good clear close-up of one?

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 3.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago
      |   view attached
    A closer pic, would have to be when I go visit my friend again, will have to pull the action. However, here is an enlarged portion of the photo that I think shows them well. Each one is fastened to the bridge with two small screws, and they are different from front to back, every other one is mounted opposite too. They are a C shape, with the screws at the middle of the C. The base ones are completely different however, and those all appear to be in good order.





  • 4.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Member
    Posted 10 days ago
    If a few in the center are broken, remove a few on the top end.  You can fashion something for replacement up there.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago
    A bit odd that half of them have the termination toward the front of the bridge, the other half at the back, yes? Seems it would play havoc with the scaling.

    -Lawrence Becker
    Dayton KY




  • 6.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago
    With no bridge pin to flagpole, I would be very interested to learn what, if any, false beats you get out of this piano when you tune it. Also, since these "agraffes"  reverse position every other one, with one side pressing down and the other side lifting up, I would be interested in possible tonal differences every other note. Can you hear a difference between notes where the strings are pressed down on the front side of the bridge vs strings that are pushed down on the back side of the bridge?

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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 7.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago

    The piano reacts like any upright, and seems to be fairly stable, I don't notice any tonal changes from one note to the next, but I am curious as to why the agraffes are reversed like that.

    Yes, could take some of the top notes and use those parts down in the scale where there are two broken ones. I will have to replace at least on string on each one as the center string goes right through a hole, but the outer two don't. Hmm, I wonder if I have my friend put a slot between the two mounting screws, and then I wouldn't have to replace strings. Hmm Would that weaken the piece too much?

    David 






  • 8.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago

    Just thought that slotting idea through some more--won't work, oh well! Forget I mentioned it. Has anyone else seen this bridge design before?

    David






  • 9.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago
    Instead of replacing the string, cut it at the tuning pin, thread it through the hole, and then do a splice. Save and use the old string if you possibly can so you, and the customer, don't have to suffer through the new string stabilizing.

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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 10.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago
    My Fairbault Schimmel had these. Extremely clear right to 88


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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
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  • 11.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Member
    Posted 10 days ago
    What's a Fairbault Schimmel?  Grand/Upright?  Made by the current Schimmel?

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 12.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago
    Made in Fairbault, Minnesota factory closed in I believe 1918. Here's the bass bridge.


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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Posted 10 days ago
    Schimmel Nelson is one of my favorites. I did a thorough study of them because my Mammoth VCG is loosely based on Fridolins vertical  double escapement action.  i have factory photos, employee lists and Pics of the whole crew, brochures, detailed instrument plans, and patents. And yet there was no indication that they ever used bridge agraffes. Oh well.
    Briefly,
    Fridolin was born in Bavaria, came to the U.S, worked for Mehlin, then Bush and Gertz, then with partner formed Schimmel & Nelson. They roughly had 20 employess. Only produced for 4 years. Then F. Schimmel went solo ownership until WW1, then closed down his piano making career and focused on inventing furniture designs and tools. He invented rotary planer blades among other stuff.
    -chris

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    Chernobieff Piano Restorations
    "Where Tone is Key"
    chernobieffpiano.com
    grandpianoman@protonmail.com
    Lenoir City, TN
    865-986-7720
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  • 14.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago
    The bass bridge that Larry M. posted, is exactly like the one on my friend's piano.
    So, no one has state, but does anyone have any of these parts, or has anyone else seen these before, so far we have a 1902 and a pre 1918 piano with them.
    David D.





  • 15.  RE: Brass Bridge on 1902 upright????

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago
    The bass bridge picture gives the best indication of what is going on.  It appears that the bar that the string rests on at the front (speaking length side) is higher than its brother in the back, so the string plane will follow that arrangement.  This means that there are substantial down bearing forces at the front, and little or no bearing at the back.  The forces will want to create bridge roll, indeed the agraffes sit towards the back of the bridge to somewhat ameliorate these forces.  In any design, the string has to deflect enough from the speaking length to isolate it enough so as to have good tone.  It is side bearing, whether in the vertical or horizontal plane

    It is less obvious in the trichord agraffes, but I believe that the alternating arrangement is there to achieve an equalized distribution of down bearing forces between the front and back on the bridge, so as to cancel out bridge roll.

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    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
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