Pianotech

  • 1.  Searching for any spare brass flanges for old Char. Steiiff upright

    Posted 02-16-2019 12:51
    Fellow PTG members,
         Hi.  This is the first time that I am entering the forum.  I decided to take home the action of an old Stieff upright earlier this week.  The piano is located in the lower level/basement of a church where I'm employed as the music minister.

          I bought the Schaff brass flanges, and figured that they should be sufficient to complete a repair task of 5 or 6 flanges.  Well, after fitting in the new flange, I tried the old screw, but it was just slightly too thin, and wouldn't grab the threading on the flange.  Next, I tried the associated new screw, but when I tightened the screw with the hammer butt center pin in place, there was side-play which I had experienced with the old cracked flange.  I can't get it to be securely tight like the neighboring notes that have unbroken flanges.

          The smaller old screw had a graduated neck to the head, and the new screw didn't have a neck at all.  The threading goes to the bottom flat portion of the screw's head.  Could that difference be part of the problem?

         It seems that my best recourse is to find someone who has spare brass flanges from a Stieff upright.  Attached are a couple of photographs that I took of the old and new flange.

         If you know of anyone who could have some of these old flanges, please let me know.  Also, if you have any ideas, such as using a different screw that worked for you, etc.

    Thank you,
         Ken Hand


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    Kenneth Hand
    Gibsonia PA
    724-544-4337
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  • 2.  RE: Searching for any spare brass flanges for old Char. Steiiff upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-16-2019 22:38
    Hi Ken,

    There's a threaded butt plate and a non-threaded butt plate.  They look the same. 

    Are you saying you're not getting a good match with the threads in the threaded butt plate??

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    Larry Fisher
    Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
    Vancouver WA
    360-256-2999
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  • 3.  RE: Searching for any spare brass flanges for old Char. Steiiff upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-16-2019 22:41
    Upon further investigation, I see that the notch at the bottom of either butt plate don't match.  That could cause l/r wobble by the looks of things.

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    Larry Fisher
    Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
    Vancouver WA
    360-256-2999
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Searching for any spare brass flanges for old Char. Steiiff upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-17-2019 06:33
    The only thing I can think of, and what I would probably try is to dip the notched end of each replacement butt plate in epoxy and let harden.  File off the front, back and sides so that the notched part is the only part with glue.  The glue has filled in the notch.  Now use a needle file and file away the glue to match the original.  Some people might consider using super glue but personally I don't like working with that stuff.  Let us know how things turn out.

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    Larry Fisher
    Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
    Vancouver WA
    360-256-2999
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  • 5.  RE: Searching for any spare brass flanges for old Char. Steiiff upright

    Posted 02-17-2019 08:25
    I'm assuming you have talked to Allen st Schaff about the old style brass clips?

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 6.  RE: Searching for any spare brass flanges for old Char. Steiiff upright

    Posted 02-17-2019 11:40
    "..... there was side-play which I had experienced with the old cracked flange. I can't get it to be securely tight like the neighboring notes that have unbroken flanges"

    So think about for a moment. The broken flange allowed the pin to slop around and the steel is harder than the brass in which the channel is cut.

    Now the channel on the rail is worn and you will need a larger c. pin to take up the difference.

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    Dan Silverwood
    www.silverwoodpianos.com
    http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
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  • 7.  RE: Searching for any spare brass flanges for old Char. Steiiff upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-17-2019 16:56
    First, those are butt plates, not flanges. These can be tough to find good replacements for, as various manufacturers created a variety of shapes and sizes.

    Can't tell from the side view photo which end is notched. Looks like the original may have a protrusion toward front or back, similar to the old style Schwander plates I recently encountered in a 1904 Baldwin upright. New available plates did not match the originals in any dimension, but at least all the 110+ year old ones were still uncracked and viable, and I did not have to figure out anything further to do with them. Lucky me!

    Are there plates from end notes that are in good condition? Either cannibalize the action for those as replacements for the more played midsection, or take one to an artisan metalworker. He/she may be able to make a mold with the original, then melt and pour brass to make new plates that exactly match the old.

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    [Dwight][Denzer][RPT]
    [Dwight's Piano Works]
    [Springfield][IL]
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  • 8.  RE: Searching for any spare brass flanges for old Char. Steiiff upright

    Posted 02-17-2019 18:22

    Ok I had some time waiting for lacquer to dry….. 

    First the replacements will work from Schaff…..they are not as long but the cutout in the bottom will catch the set pin on the rail enough to fit. Tighten enough to one side of the bottom cut. This will leave the plate a bit tilted. You might have to cut some material off the inside wall of the butt  because it may rub a bit…… 

    MAKE SURE that if you use the new round head screw  it is not threading into the flange in the continuous rail. If it is threading into the flange on the rail this is why you can't tighten it up fully and there is leftover play in the butt…. Steel will cut threads through brass easily. The threads under the head are stopping at the edge of the rail without having the butt tight.

    If that is the case then take a small round file and use it until the screw slides in and out of the flange rail.  Then the plate will tighten against the rail. 

     The new round heads are longer and you have to install the plate, tighten it up and then cut off the excess with a small hacksaw. Otherwise the butt will bounce off and not return to rest properly. Then loosen the plate just enough to get the butt in. Don't unscrew it all the way you won't get it to re-thread…..

    With those original plates you should see the wedge pattern facing you when installed.



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    Dan Silverwood
    www.silverwoodpianos.com
    http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
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  • 9.  RE: Searching for any spare brass flanges for old Char. Steiiff upright

    Posted 03-19-2019 13:40
    Fellow technicians,
        I want you to know how I resolved the dilemma that I found myself in trying to use the replacement brass plates and screws from Schaff.  The last thread turned out to be the answer to what I needed to do.  Thank all of you for replying?   I had cannibalized 4 original plates from the lowest bass hammers; I tried to do the same on the top 3 hammers, but they each were slightly cracked.

       There were 6 or 7 hammers with side-play, and fixed 4 of them (per the last thread) by filing the brass rail flange hole in order for the new silver screw to fit in the hole freely.  Unfortunately, there are 3 that will need a repair clip.  I might inquire Dan (who responded twice)  about the feasibility of replacing the center pin with a larger one instead of using the repair clip.

       Fortunately, I'm the one who uses this practice piano 90+ 5 of the time, so, I will wait until summer arrives, when I more time, to tackle this last phase of fixing the flange/hammer butt pin/plate connection.

    In appreciation,
          Ken

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    Kenneth Hand
    Gibsonia PA
    724-544-4337
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Searching for any spare brass flanges for old Char. Steiiff upright

    Posted 03-21-2019 12:04
    For a worn channel in the rail I work it backwards. Remove the butt  then take a size of center pin and fit it into the rail and fasten the plate.
    when tight try to move the  center pin with 2 fingers to see if there is slop.
    If there is use a larger center pin until it doesn't have any slop.
    Then size the bushing in the hammer butt 1/2 size below that pin size that doesn't slop in the brass rail.
    Install the chosen pin in the hammer butt and fasten to the rail. With brass flanges I always size the felt bushing 1/2 size smaller than the center pin I use. Even so there are a few where a correction is required because of one side of the butt flange being worn more than the other.....

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    Dan Silverwood
    www.silverwoodpianos.com
    http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
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