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charge for new wound strings

  • 1.  charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-22-2020 14:41
    when you break a bass string and send it off to purchase a new replacement string, how much do you charge the client above your cost for purchasing it?  example, if two bass strings on an upright piano are broken and Mapes will charge me $47 for purchase and ship these two new strings, what do I charge the customer?

    ------------------------------
    Gary Howell
    Buckeye Piano Tuning
    Massillon OH
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-22-2020 15:06
    First of all, your statement "If I break two bass strings", puts the onus on you, as if you personally corroded the strings over the last 60 years, and personally work hardened the metal. Strings break...period. This is not merely semantic footsies. The way you said it, reveals that you assume the breakage is your problem, and not the piano's problem or its lack of upkeep.  If you feel responsible for the breakage, then you will not charge properly for your time, ending up feeling bad for something that was not your fault, and then taking a double and triple whammy by not charging properly for the time to fix the strings.

    Without thinking about what charge is "reasonable" simply determine how much time it will take you, including travel, to do the repair. As far as followup tunings to the unstable new strings, if its close by, stop in in a couple of weeks when you are in the area an touch them up. If the piano is far away, mute the strings, and deal with it the next time they pay you to come and tune...which, in many of these cases, will be in 60 years.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-22-2020 15:31
    thank you for your input, but your assumptions are completely incorrect. I obviously recognize that strings break in old pianos. when I use the words "I broke" I am using them to mean that I was tuning a piano when a string broke, as opposed to the string having broke while the pianist was playing. Same thing when playing a guitar. I always say, "I broke a string" when a guitar string breaks. That doesn't mean the issue was me and not the string.

    As for your second paragraph, that sounds like good advice. charge based on time and travel. 

    Gary Howell

    ------------------------------
    Gary Howell
    Buckeye Piano Tuning
    Massillon OH
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-22-2020 15:34
    Never, never say “I broke a string” in the presence of your customer.

    Sent from my iPad




  • 5.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-22-2020 16:32

    I agree. Never ever say "I broke a string." Say, "a string broke". If your customer is impolite enough to say, "you broke it", then that gives you the opportunity to discuss why strings break, ending with, "any string can break at any time, though when they are ready to break they usually do so when the piano is being played or tuned. But sometimes one even breaks in the middle of the night." Which is true -- one of my customers was woken up from the bang of a breaking string several rooms away.






  • 6.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-23-2020 10:16
    I never do. I am only using that verbiage casually here on this forum. I can see however, from all the pushback, that I should not have done that.

    ------------------------------
    Gary Howell
    Buckeye Piano Tuning
    Massillon OH
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2020 10:07
    You can't go wrong with "...a string failed" (credit my esteemed colleague, Amy Zilk).

    Best
    Linda Scott





  • 8.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-23-2020 00:23
    As others have said, saying, "I broke a string" gives the customer a sense that it was intentional (even though that is not at all what is being implied when someone says "I broke something" it is that exact underlying negative meaning that may be perceived)(so, just avoid using that phrase).

    Anyway, a good way to do it is charge for a 1-2hr appt. It takes a good hour just to install one string and if you charge 2 hrs for it then you are still getting that extra money for having to measure the old string, email the string company, shipping, cost of the string, "free" complimentary tuning of that string if you are in the area, etc.

    2 strings??? Take a bit of price off the 2nd string. 3 strings??? Idk, hasn't happened to me yet, but I would probably price the 3rd wound string the same as the 2nd.

    ------------------------------
    Cobrun Sells
    cobrun94@yahoo.com
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2020 08:00
    In answer to your question regarding what to charge when a string breaks is, in standard business practices double the wholesale cost with shipping and add labor.  When you buy from industry suppliers they charge you a wholesale cost just like every other business selling to their technicians whether its a car dealer, mechanic, window installer, etc. When they sell to their customers there always is a retail price higher than the wholesale cost.    

    If you decided to go outside standard business practices that is completely your business.

    ------------------------------
    Gregory Cheng
    Warminster PA
    267-994-5742
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-23-2020 09:16
    Gregory, I assume you are only talking about the cost of the strings themselves. Installation, travel, time spent ordering, have to be added to the raw cost of the strings.



    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2020 13:59
    Hi Jim 

    Installation, travel, time spent ordering I figured would be in the add labor section of the double the wholesale cost with shipping and add labor.   

    Thanks!





  • 12.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-23-2020 10:25
    So, to really arrive at a number for the example stated above. The two bass strings from Mapes are $47 after shipping. I should therefore charge my client $94 plus labor? so, let's say something like $150 to replace two bass strings in an old spinet piano?  Would you say that is ballpark accurate?   I read some where recently that most business who go out of business, do so because they don't charge enough for their services. I am trying to ascertain if that is something I am guilty of....but I admit, I would have a difficult time quoting someone $150 for a mere two strings in a spinet piano that they themselves paid $100 for the whole piano.

    ------------------------------
    Gary Howell
    Buckeye Piano Tuning
    Massillon OH
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2020 10:41
    The numbers speak for themselves. Some things are not worth fixing. But that does not automatically transfer the onus of the problem to the attending tech (that is, unless they eagerly volunteer to make it their problem). The business-driven problems start when someone oscillates between being a professional piano technician and Mother Teresa. Incredible woman, but not much of a business model.

    BTW, there is one scenario in which it would be correct to say, "I broke a string..."

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-23-2020 10:52
    I've seen where 1 string (plus the travel and time at appointment) is $150. That includes time to measure old string and what not, so I wouldn't think $150 for 2 strings is too much, it could be too little just depending on where you are, who you are, and how you run your numbers.

    I do my best to let customers know in the best way that I can that the value of a piano (their piano) can be outweighed by the price of services needed for it.

    ------------------------------
    Cobrun Sells
    cobrun94@yahoo.com
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2020 11:03
    No getting around the fact that it's a difficult scenario...and you can add the time/expense to package and mail the broken strings for duplication. 

     Depending on where the break is and what kind of space you've got to work with, I'd be tempted to try to repair and reinstall one of the 'failed' strings, so they at least have a note, and not silence.  If the strings are from two separate bichords, I'd offer the option of making the dampers work and not replacing strings.  Sometimes funky pianos that people don't want to replace call for desperate measures.  Use your imagination.  It sounds like, were you to actually charge for your time and materials, the cost of repairs would exceed the value of the instrument.  

      My philosophy changes with who the user is: when it's a learner, especially a young learner, I go the route of guiding them to the correct decision (replace), explaining about the cost of proper repairs exceeding the value of the instrument.  I offer options and help for replacement.

    Best of luck,
    Linda





  • 16.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2020 11:03
    Hi Gary, the subject of what NOT to say has been covered so I won't repeat that part.

    As for the resulting return comment of yours, I agree.  Years ago you used to be able to sell a host of things to fix pianos and still be cost effective when balanced against the acquisition cost of the piano in the first place.  I recently had to tell someone their $20 piano had reached the end of it's journey.  The bass bridge was failed and there were loose tuning pins on this Richmond upright.  I used the phrase, "I suggest you don't spend any more money on this piano.  It's a good example of throwing good money after bad.". 

    As for what do you do when not one, but two bass strings break, let them decide.  Quote the probable cost to them and let them be the deciding factor.  Be sure to include the fact that the strings will stretch for a period of time  (including the additional visits to retune them) adding some frustration to the repair that can't be avoided.  An additional option is tying the old strings.  Using an appropriately sized piece of wire you can tie a replacement piece of wire onto the broken end and wrap it back around the tuning pin.  The last time I tied a knot in a piece of piano wire was when I took my RPT exam.  I've seen some tied strings out there that are holding nicely.  I'd rather replace them.  They can call someone else if they want' them tied. 

    Ok, now for the business aspect of this process.  Charging for the two visits, plus retuning, the string, the office time, the shipping, and the guarantee should the string be poorly wound or whatever ...........   that's a lot of ingredients.  Is your business going to fail because you didn't charge enough on this call??  Probably knot.  (I couldn't resist that one)  It takes more than one, but you knew that.  I've done a heap of calls that were under pay scale but I survived 50 years in the business so far and never had to give up my license.  That's the beauty of having 1000's of income sources.  So the question is seriously, "Do I want this piano on my database?".  Not if it's an income beater. 

    I know, I know, it's a shame to see a piano sent to the landfill because of such a simple repair costing over the value of the instrument.  Uh, I suggest that that's not for us to decide.  Let the customer decide.

    Some pianos are more profitable than others.  Send the "bottom feeders " to the delete button on your database right next to the ones that aren't accessible for their scheduled appointment. 

    Lar

    PS, it's raining this AM.  That means all the fires in the area have been extinguished and the smoke filled air is a thing of the past until next year.

    ------------------------------
    Larry Fisher
    Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
    Vancouver WA
    503-310-6965
    Working the gravy zone for the rest of my days.
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-24-2020 11:05

    Hi Larry,
    I respectfully disagree with your statement:
    "The last time I tied a knot in a piece of piano wire was when I took my RPT exam.  I've seen some tied strings out there that are holding nicely.  I'd rather replace them.  They can call someone else if they want' them tied."

    In my humble opinion, splicing a bass string should always be the first option if it's physically possible to do it. For one thing, it saves on both cost and time. For another, the customer won't have a new string that sticks out in sound. I tell the customer "I'm going to try and save you some money by splicing the string if it can be done. If not we can talk about a new string." 

    If I can splice it, a skill which I've worked on over the years, now I'm the hero. I charge half an hour of time. Win-win.

    One other note, I always warn owners of possible string breakage if the piano is old, needs a large pitch raise, has very sticky bearing points, Or shows evidence of replaced strings. No surprises.



    ------------------------------
    Scott Cole, RPT
    rvpianotuner.com
    Talent, OR
    (541-601-9033
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-24-2020 11:20
    Scott - one's really lucky if a string breaks in a place that's spliceable. If you're willing to give others tips on how to do it it would be really helpful and much appreciated. I'm sure that others will agree your approach to be really good advice.

    And yes - I agree - getting that old string back in means it's not going to stand out or forever need retuning for a while.

    Best wishes

    David P

    --
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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    +44 1342 850594





  • 19.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2020 12:23

    Yes, Gary, that would be a difficult estimate, $150 to fix two strings on a $100 spinet.

    There is a fallback position, though. Replace them with hexocore, while explaining that a piano like this which also breaks strings will rapidly cost them more than it is worth. In fact, it would probably be better to make them the estimate on the spot, explaining that this repair may not make economic sense. You could give them two figures, one for conventional strings, including the measuring, time, etc., and then another for the universal strings. Then a discussion of how they might get a better piano.

    The universal bass strings do take an initial investment to get all the sizes. I have two of each, lasting from my days when I worked on too many bad pianos. But while they are fairly labor intensive to install (peeling off the extra wrap), one has eliminated the extra visit, the time to get a replacement, and the higher cost of a proper string.

    I never send the originals to get replacements. I always measure them and the data. Schaff has a section on their order form for "notes", and I put the data there, as a fallback for phoning it in. The core diameter, the wrap diameter, the wrap length, and the length from the hitch pin to the wrap. No point adding the trip to the post office, and the delay for them to get to the string maker. Substitute the time to measure them carefully, and sometimes twice. (Don't ask me how I know ...)

    Also, this gives me the chance to guess at how far the string will stretch when installed. I can include that amount (hidden) in the wrap length request, avoiding having the copper ending up too close to the upper bridge.







  • 20.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-26-2020 15:06
    What is Hexacore?

    ------------------------------
    Gary Howell
    Buckeye Piano Tuning
    Massillon OH
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-26-2020 15:22
    There's good information about Hexacore strings on https://my.ptg.org/communities/community-home/digestviewer/viewthread?GroupId=45&MID=632905

    They are emergency toolkit strings https://www.fletcher-newman.co.uk/index.php?l=product_list&c=110 that can be cut and stripped to fit - but I hadn't considered before that they might damage agraffes.

    Best wishes

    David P

    --
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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    +44 1342 850594





  • 22.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-26-2020 22:17
    Hexacore = Universal Strings. The core wire of universal strings is hexagonal so that you can unwind the copper wrap as far as needed, and the hex core keeps the wrap tight. Custom strings have core wire which is roughened or swaged at the ends only. That keeps the wrapped copper wire from unwinding. If you remove too much copper from the original string, you might go beyond the swaged part of the core wire, and the copper wrap won't hold onto the core anymore. With hexcore, you can unwind as much as you need to.
    Clear as mud?

    Paul McCloud
    San Diego




  • 23.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-23-2020 14:21
    I've had my fair share of strings on instruments in the south of France breaking where instruments haven't been maintained for years. The real bottom line is that one rogue string may break, but as soon as one finds another one the reality is that they're all about to go and the instrument is ready for a restring. The client should be made aware of that.

    Best wishes

    David P

    --
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    +44 1342 850594





  • 24.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2020 14:52
    Hi Gary,

    What you do and charge is none of our business and we cannot tell what to charge.   But as you can see from various posts that the customer got what they paid for and their are better options than servicing/repairing a zombie piano corpses... Uh I mean spinet.  And with that comes the cost of repairs that may outweigh the worth of the piano.  It's not your problem if the price is too high for them.

    If someone bought a car for $100 and the transmission blew in their first drive out the mechanic isn't going to give them a deal because they bought it for so little. It's not the mechanic's problem.  Service is service regardless if the piano is $100,000 or $100.   

    My price doesn't fluctuate based on the piano.  And suppliers are certainly not going to adjust their price based on your needs.  So that comes down to what does it cost to the customer.   

    As another said, I too take great care in educating the customer and my piano teachers all have relationships with the local dealers to assist in upgrading the students' piano.   Which in turn provides me with better pianos to service for a lifetime.  

    Considering that these strings broke, how long until another problem happens and they pay even more for a piano they barely purchased?   How long until the customer get frustrated with you because the piano keeps breaking?  

    On the flip side they only paid a $100 and if they have to put a few hundred into it to keep it going until they can upgrade, it's also not such bad deal, but there is the risk and if they are willing to take it, good for them.  But they need to know upfront what the risk is.

    ------------------------------
    Gregory Cheng, RPT
    Task Group Chair
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2020 16:25

    I agree with Gregory. It's not up to you to decide if the repair is wroth doing. It's up to the client to decide how much they love their piano. Never make an assumption. I've done way more work than a spinet than I would ever do, but the client was very attached to that piano. They made the decision, and I charged according to the amount and difficulty of the work, which affected the time spent on the job.


    Gary, I think it's important to point out that no one - here, in person, or anywhere - is allowed to tell you how much to charge. That would be a violation of PTG's anti-trust policy and federal anti-trust laws. 

    Personally, here's how I would work up a quote based on principles common in nearly all service based businesses. To help understand why, forget that you're a sole proprietor for a moment. You are now the employee of a company that is a separate entity and owned by someone else.


    In order for the company to make a profit, they need to:
    1) cover the cost of parts;
    2) make money on the parts;
    3) pay their employee (you) to order and install the parts;
    4) make money on their investment of hiring you;
    5) make enough money after overhead to pay the owner a return on his or her investment.
    Add all this together, and this is how you determine how much you should charge.

    Keeping the above in mind, here's what I do, as an example. I take the cost of the parts and double it, then add shipping. This covers 1 and 2 above. Then I charge at least one hour of labor (in this case) to cover 3, 4, and 5. Add it together, and that's how much I charge. You need to run the numbers and determine how much will cover 1-5 for you. Come up with your own number, but make sure it covers the above 5 points. (Yes, it will probably be in the ballpark of how much you're thinking.)

    You have to cover all five points, or you are probably significantly undercharging. If you don't charge enough, it's not worth you being in business. You could be making more by doing something else, while letting someone else deal with the stresses of running a business. 


    But, if you charge enough and cover all 5 points, you'll find that it's worth it for you to be in business. You'll earn a better ROI than working for someone else, and have the lifestyle of your choosing at the end of the day. But it starts with making the choice to run a profitable business.



    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (805) 315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2020 16:39
    Gary,

    Can't add too much to what has already been said here. I think you do get the idea.  However for the last couple of years I have been adding the following diatribe to my discussions with piano owners (esp those facing repairs and/or rebuilding). The essence of it goes like this:

    "The biggest MYTH in the piano industry is that pianos are built to last for generations. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Pianos are designed and built to last about 30 years...maybe 40, before major issues must be addressed. This includes hammer replacement, string breakage, key bushings, loose tuning pins, soundboard problems, etc etc.

    It is the SALES dept' s that propagated the MYTH that the piano will last a lifetime. It is total BALONEY (and they knew it and STILL know it). If they told you that when you bought it...you wouldn't buy it so they made up a nice story of permanence knowing that they would not be around to face the consequences when the reality proved different. The piano buying public has been effectively brainwashed into the idea that pianos are built to last. They are not. Some are better than others but they will all start falling short in various ways in the 25 - 40 year area of life. That's the reality. It's all about high stress and environmental deterioration.

    This is why you are having some problems with your piano right now. It's perfectly normal, except that you didn't know about it. Just like my freezer that 'should' have lasted 20 years, but at 7 years sprang a leak and now cost $700 to repair. Do I fix it or buy another one? Good question. You will likewise have to decide whether to keep your piano going, or get another one. I can't decide that for you."

    If course there's more to add but you get the idea. I trying to bring them to the REALITY of the situation and get them to realize they are victims of fairy tales and outright untruths. This often helps in situations like yours. 

    Hope this helps a little.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-24-2020 11:24
    So to customers whose piano  is not worth fixing or replacing broken strings I tell them. " If it was  a horse in this  condition I'd shoot it".    martin
    www.snowpianos.com

    ------------------------------
    Martin Snow
    South Burlington VT
    617-543-1030
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-24-2020 14:09
    Thanks you, Martin! Dancing around the real issue is no substitute for simply telling it like it is.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-24-2020 11:40
    Gary --

    It's only been touched on here but string splicing is a skill that you absolutely need. First of all because it's required to pass the RPT technical exam, but secondly because replacing a string is seldom the best course of action. Especially in a spinet. Splicing a plain wire string, in a non-speaking section, will take you about 20 minutes. Since you are using the already stable old string there is seldom a need to make a 2nd trip to touch up tuning because a new string is stretching in. OK, if it's a plain wire string, and it breaks in the speaking length you're usually stuck with replacing it. Wound strings, however, are even easier because you actually can sometimes get away with making a splice in the speaking length in many instances. Learn how to do a string splice. It will save you a lot of unnecessary work and expense and make you the hero. Invest in a set of small roll plain wire strings and a set of universal strings and keep them in your car. Permanent replacement with universal strings will frequently be more than sufficient in most especially older pianos, especially spinets. Newer, and higher end pianos absolutely need to have both wound strings replaced with a matched pair if only one of them breaks. But replacing the broken string with a universal string while the new ones are being made will, once again, make you the hero. 

    And not to whip a dead horse, but, like old shoelaces, strings break. As Alan hinted, the only time you will actually break a string is if you're not paying attention and start pulling on a different string than the one you're listening to. In all other cases, they just magically break all by themselves. We've all done it, and we've all learned how not to do it again.

    ------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-24-2020 14:48
    100% agreement on string splicing. Back in the 70's I think, Yat Lam Hong wrote an excellent series of articles in the journal on the subject. That's how I learned it. If you can find it...

    And of course, many spinets have the problem of too much differential between the nut and the tuning pin (usually the lower row of pins) causing the wire to wrap itself up and over the coil. This causes significant metal fatigue and should be treated by installing a longer pin along with the string splice. The "illness" should also be pointed out to the client and explained that all they had to do to alleviate this was to angle the pins back a few degrees.  Oh well. 

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Posted 09-26-2020 15:12
    I do know how to string splice and have done so many times, but never so low in the bass section were the gauge of wire is so heavy.  Also, many years ago while learning how to splice wires, Dewey Rex demonstrated the principal to me using electrical wire. I videoed his demonstration and now, nearly every time I splice a wire, I first review this video I made back then.....

    Piano wire knot instructions

    ------------------------------
    Gary Howell
    Buckeye Piano Tuning
    Massillon OH
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-26-2020 21:55
    Exactly right. Yat Lam Hong called them "down right" and "down left" loops. I still say it to myself as I'm doing it.  There are otger variations but this is what I use all the time. 

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2020 12:33
    I talked to Bucky at Mapes recently about the issue of wholesale vs retail pricing. 
    Mapes only has one price and anyone can order a string. No trade discounts. Now 
    that makes it difficult to charge a markup on replacement strings. I do but have to 
    justify it by my expertise and time involved in the process. If the client calls Mapes,
    they will be told what was actually the cost of the string. This opens up a whole
    rats nest of ethical question in the clients mind.

    ------------------------------
    Dave Conte
    Owner
    North Richland Hills TX
    817-581-7321
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2020 13:36
    But you spent time coming to their home, measuring the string data, ordering it (which isvsomethibgbthe homeowner does NOT know how to do properly, and paying shipping, and coming to install it, and coming back to retune it, etc etc.

    So, the cost of the string(s) plus shipping x 2 plus labor, trip, etc. If they have a problem they may not be worth working for.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 35.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2020 14:59
    I had a customer who ordered his own strings, and of course, since he didn't know how they were numbered, ordered the wrong ones and had to order them again.  And had to pay me the first service call to come out to install them, only to find out they weren't the right ones, and a second service call, once he had the right ones.
    Ha ha.





  • 36.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-27-2020 20:03

    Dave said: "If the client calls Mapes, they will be told what was actually the cost of the string. This opens up a whole rats nest of ethical question in the clients mind."


    I don't think so. First, I've never met a client that actually knows what they're doing for replacing strings, which is why they called me. Second, they wouldn't know where to order them from. Not only are they paying for my work, but also for my professional knowledge in these areas. Third, if someone has a problem with markup, they really shouldn't be hiring anyone, because every company has to stay in business. If they really wanted to save a few bucks and do it themselves, are they really the type of client I want to work for?


    For me, the answer is no, so I don't even give them the option of ordering the strings themselves, and I personally refuse to put in strings that I didn't order. I just place the order, and bill the total amount for the job as "new string(s), installed." It saves a lot of potential headache and also simplifies the billing process.



    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (805) 315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    ------------------------------



  • 37.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-28-2020 09:32
    Benjamin,

    With all due respect, you seem to miss the point here, which is not whether what I am doing is right,
    but client perception. We all have reputations to protect, and we are all in sales whether we like it
    or not. It's not an issue of telling the client anything. Most will not question, but there are certainly
    those who like to micro-manage every penny and do investigation on their own and yes, they will
    find out how and where to order and what the material cost is. Mapes does not help that situation
    by listing their prices or their policy.

    Having an opinion about how to manage such an issue is certainly your prerogative, but doesn't
    really hold up in the real world. We all have those clients that are difficult to acquiesce, but that
    doesn't mean they are money-losing accounts. You can stand by your guns and insist on your
    standard, but at the end of it all, you are only convincing yourself. We deal with real human beings
    and they all have their personalities. I don't intentionally give the client any option, but in some
    instances they find one anyway. If the client has already ordered a string without my knowledge
    and hires me to install it, I will do so but verify that it is the right string before I even book the call,
    and charge accordingly including my time to contact the supplier if necessary. The only thing I am
    missing out on in that case is the markup on the string which is the smallest amount on the invoice.

    So if the your purpose on this platform is to show up other technicians and beat your own chest,
    I don't feel like it is worth my time to continue posting here if the only result is that posts are used
    to bolster someone else's opinion or agenda. I am not wrong and don't appreciate your inference that
    I am by stating your dissention and using my comments in quotes to prove that only you are
    right. Yours is just an opinion the same as everyone else's and opinions are not fact. My guess 
    is that some agree with me and others with you, and that there is no right or wrong answer.

    ------------------------------
    Dave Conte
    Owner
    North Richland Hills TX
    817-581-7321
    ------------------------------



  • 38.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-28-2020 12:17
    Dave,

    I'm really sorry you took my comment that way. It was not my intention to be demeaning or disparaging of your ways of doing things. I quoted your comments because I was commenting on those specifically, not your entire post. I wasn't trying to show you or anyone else up, or beat my chest or anything like that. Just talking about how I do it, as others have here and in other threads. I'm truly sorry you took offensive at my post, as it wasn't meant to insult you.

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (805) 315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    ------------------------------



  • 39.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-28-2020 13:23
    Benjamin,

    Understood, apology accepted. No hard feelings. 

    It is often difficult to understand intent when posting comments
    where vocal inflection can not be heard. This is a side effect
    of living in a digital world. 


    --
    Dave Conte, RPT, CCT
    Dave Conte Piano Works
    817-581-7321







  • 40.  RE: charge for new wound strings

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-28-2020 10:33
    So then don't mark it up.  Your fee to replace a string should be based on your time to replace as well as follow up with a tweaking of the tuning plus the cost of the string.  The cost of the string is insignificant compared to your time.  To replace a string my fee is typically 1 hour plus the cost of the string.  Stopping by to tweak the string can be done when I'm in their neighborhood on some other job and takes all of 10 seconds.  If you have to travel out of the way then factor that in.  If you want to have them order the string then just give them the info and let them do it.  Much ado about nothing here.  Don't sweat the small stuff and insist on maximizing profits on every little thing you do.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------