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Behavior of strings at the bridge

  • 1.  Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-02-2021 01:24
    I presented a talk at a local PTG meeting a few years ago where I presented my "beliefs".  I would be happy to give it again if anyone is interested.

    Ron Nossaman's observation that pressure on the bridge pin will stop a false beat is an important observation, but one that might have more than one explanation. 

    Ron thought that the movement of the bridge pin caused the beat, but I believe that the side pressure of the string on the bridge pin should be high enough to prevent any movement of the pin.

    Seating the string at the bridge will often reduce or stop a false beat, but not always.  I have found that, if seating the string in the direction of the bend (sharpening the bend) doesn't stop a beat I can often reduce or remove the beat by seating the string in the opposite direction.  This suggests that the cause might actually be overseating by previous technicians.  My own string seating technique is to seat quite gently with a slight hand tap with a hammer shank.

    Another observation that is relevant is the behavior of strings on the old Kimball bridge agraffes.  Each note/string on these Kimballs has a small but uniform or consistent false beat.  Where the bridge agraffes end these beats end and the high treble (with normal bridge pins) has very typical system of false beats.

    Another explanation (hypothesis) for false beats is that near the string terminations the string is under bending stress that causes small segments of the string to behave differently from the rest of the unstressed string and creating two (or more) resonances that are out of tune.  If this is true then sharpening the bend reduces the size or effect of the bend and reduces the alternate frequency or false beat.  Part of this bending stress could come from the friction of the bridge pin and bridge creating a tension difference between the speaking segment and the bridge segment.  If this is true then simply pulling the string over pitch and "rendering" the string through the bridge should reduce or eliminate the beat.  Other tuners have mentioned "stretching out or pulling out a false beat".

    A  problem with this idea is that, if this were true then lowering the pitch of the string should reduce this tension and eliminate the beat; but it does not, it only slows down the beat, though occasionally I find that the beat is reduced when pulling the string back up to pitch.

    If my "hypothesis" is correct then improving the friction at the bridge, perhaps with better lubricants or harder or more lubricious (is that a word?) pins might have a great improvement in the "cleanliness" of pitch.  I noted that some Bosendorfers have thicker brass bridge pins.

    I have been testing my ideas daily for several years and I regularly reduce false beats by simply pulling poor sounding strings a bit more over pitch.  This also seems to improve my tuning stability.

    Perhaps this is something that lots of other tuners already do.

    I am happy to argue!

    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Posted 12-02-2021 09:27
    <Ron thought that the movement of the bridge pin caused the beat,

    88 agraffe pianos often will have beats in new and healthy caps. Press the pin in the direction of the string, and the beat speeds up...it doesn't go away. So in the complexity of the system, there are two terminations to deal with, not one.

    <but I believe that the side pressure of the string on the bridge pin should be high enough to prevent any movement of the pin.

    I don't agree with this. We think about these things with minds that are designed to calculate phenomena that are mostly visible by our senses. What is happening at 440-1000hz is not visible to the naked eye, and therefore hard to formulate a visual notion of what is going on. A loose pin or semi-loose pin, in my thinking, has a different resonant frequency than a tightly encased pin. In the treble, and especially the alto capo, my  guess is, that the string driving frequency is already too close to the pins own resonant frequency, which contributes to endemic treble tonal issues. Taking a pin, which is already way to close to resonant frequency, and  allowing the pin any movement, under these conditions, has to induce chaotic movement to the system. This is my own theory, and has not been proven, obviously...so to some degree, it may be foo-foo.

    <Another observation that is relevant is the behavior of strings on the old Kimball bridge agraffes.  

    As you have noted, it is the bridge agraffes causing this. Treble bridge agraffes currently in production by Dain and the guy in Austrailia, all produce this same phenomenon.  Not sure if Paullelos bridge agraffes produce this same phenomenon.

    < If this is true then simply pulling the string over pitch and "rendering" the string through the bridge

    Tali Mahenor, a concert tech at major NYC venues, routinely pulls the string a 3rd higher to resolve false beats. SHe says it works most of the time, but sometimes not. I'm inclined to believe her, as she has serious ears, but I have not confirmed this myself yet.

    In my own work as a soundboard guy, doing all kinds of experiments on boards and bridges, both new and existing, strung and unstrung, the worst tonal and beating situations have a way of being located at a point in the board where impedance of the board matches the impedance of the driving frequency. At these points, because it is the location of a board natural frequency, the board vibrates chaotically and completely out of control. When the board is vibrating like this, the whole pin system, which already is horribly inefficient at best, is challenged beyond its ability to terminate the string well. 

    Termination at the bridge, under any circumstances, is very close to the threshold of failed termination. So, I try to reduce the distance between front and back pins, from 15+mm to only 10mm. This seems to help clean up the sound, though it has not been objectively tested by others without my subjective bias. But, I am sure there is movement behind the front pin, over the cap, which though not producing vibrations itself, allows the string at the termination to move too much in a chaotic way. This is why I decrease the distance between front and back pins. When letting strings down, in these pinning scenarios, you can hear the tightly clamped "crack" as the tension lets go between the pins. Offset angles are controlled at 13 deg to avoid too much side pressure.



    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-02-2021 21:16

    I don't agree with this. We think about these things with minds that are designed to calculate phenomena that are mostly visible by our senses. What is happening at 440-1000hz is not visible to the naked eye, and therefore hard to formulate a visual notion of what is going on. A loose pin or semi-loose pin, in my thinking, has a different resonant frequency than a tightly encased pin. In the treble, and especially the alto capo, my  guess is, that the string driving frequency is already too close to the pins own resonant frequency, which contributes to endemic treble tonal issues. Taking a pin, which is already way to close to resonant frequency, and  allowing the pin any movement, under these conditions, has to induce chaotic movement to the system. This is my own theory, and has not been proven, obviously...so to some degree, it may be foo-foo.

    Well, the simplest test would be to use one of the steel bridge repair plates where the "pins" cannot move significantly.  I have not tested this, but someone out there might have, or if you have a piant with a doomed bridge you could test it.

    As you have noted, it is the bridge agraffes causing this. Treble bridge agraffes currently in production by Dain and the guy in Austrailia, all produce this same phenomenon.  Not sure if Paullelos bridge agraffes produce this same phenomenon.


    I have only seen one of the 3 pin bridges (now I can't recall the name) and never tuned one, but that would be an interesting data point in the argument.

    Tali Mahenor, a concert tech at major NYC venues, routinely pulls the string a 3rd higher to resolve false beats. SHe says it works most of the time, but sometimes not. I'm inclined to believe her, as she has serious ears, but I have not confirmed this myself yet.

    I do this regularly, though not this aggressively and it works well for me too, but not always.  It is possible that, when it doesn't work it is because the string hasen't "rendered" or perhaps the string bends are in the wrong direction or too pronounced.  I strongly suspect that overenthusiastic "preparation" of grands is causing as many problems as it solves (if not more).  I service many nice grands where the bridge terminations are quite visibly battered and bent and getting clean terminations is essentially impossible.  I also see lots of new studio consoles and inexpensive grands that only I have tuned and the strings are pretty clean.

    Termination at the bridge, under any circumstances, is very close to the threshold of failed termination. So, I try to reduce the distance between front and back pins, from 15+mm to only 10mm. This seems to help clean up the sound, though it has not been objectively tested by others without my subjective bias. But, I am sure there is movement behind the front pin, over the cap, which though not producing vibrations itself, allows the string at the termination to move too much in a chaotic way. This is why I decrease the distance between front and back pins. When letting strings down, in these pinning scenarios, you can hear the tightly clamped "crack" as the tension lets go between the pins. Offset angles are controlled at 13 deg to avoid too much side pressure.

    I agree with shallow offset angles.  Close spacing of bridge pins is in your relm and I will only examine and admire.



    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-03-2021 07:23
    Blaine wrote:

    "I have only seen one of the 3 pin bridges (now I can't recall the name) and never tuned one, but that would be an interesting data point in the argument."

    The three-pin bridge arrangement is called Wapin. I attended a class on it years ago, but have no first-hand experience with it.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Posted 12-03-2021 07:41
    The concept of the wapin is two fold as I see it:

    1- insert the front pin vertically, not slanted as is normal. The theory here, is to allow the string to vibrate, less impeded, in the vertical transverse plane. 

    2- insert a secondary termination pin, very close to the main termination point, which is the front pin.  This, to quiet and clamp the string right behind the primary termination more securely. The standard pin scenario at 15mm or greater, often 20mm in the bass, in the 2 pin system, allows too much movement at the front pin.

    My own take on this setup is, that clamping at the front pin, because the front pin is vertical, is reduced a bit, which, in my view, results in complexity of a type I don't like.

    Each pin configuration will have its unique tonal profile, as Will Truitt and Doug Kirkwood and Tom Theil prove quite well in their 3 pin experiments. There are numerous possible 3 pin arrangements. Its really quite eye opening, as each one terminates the string differently, and thus has a different tonal profile.  Whether one likes the tonal profiles is another question. Their work is what lead me to experiment and retain my closer bridge pin spacing, as I felt the biggest benefit of the three pin systems was the clamping more securely at the front termination. 

    Interestingly, in Will's experimenting, my least favorite tonal profile was that of the wapin setup...but to each his own.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Posted 12-03-2021 10:54
    1/3rd higher? Is this 33cents or a musical major third?

    Best wishes

    David P

    --
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    +44 1342 850594





  • 7.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-07-2021 09:54
    I offer the following clarification from TALI MAHANOR, whose name is referenced by Jim Laleggio, regarding her technique for resolving false beats. I attended Western Iowa Tech with Tali in the 1970's and we remain in frequent contact. Jim is correct that she has serious ears, and she has devoted her career to advancing techniques for getting the absolute most out of a piano. Tali is not a member of PTG and therefore unable to comment in the Pianotech list:

    -----------------
    Hi John,
     
    Thanks for bringing that false beat discussion to my attention, particularly concerning the comment on what I do on the matter of false beating strings.  However, this merits clarification on a few matters which otherwise might be potentially misunderstood and possibly tried bringing about poor results.  I'm still very much in a phase of experimentation with this latest idea I've been up to in my attempts in addressing this most aggravating condition of false beating which spoil the chance of a piano sounding beautifully tuned.  
     
    This technique (one of several procedures I try in efforts to eliminate false beating) of raising up the pitch of a string to a minor third higher (not a major third) admittedly and most shamefully began life by my pitching a fury-filled temper tantrum in response to a string not obediently conforming to my wishes.  In a rage, I pulled the offending string to a wildly sharp pitch while banging the note as hard as I could with the malicious intention of snapping the string.  It no longer deserved to live amongst the otherwise harmonious fellowship of its colleague strings.  And no such rogue string was going to bring down my piano.   Yet, despite all that ugly violence and abuse, the string did not break, whereupon I was consumed with remorse - and a certain amazed wonder too.  So down the ladder of notes did both the soundly-beaten string and I descend with my putting it back into tune with its two sister strings - only, that at this point, its sound was magically pure - its falseness now transformed to being true and pure.  In addition to this, its tone possessed more sustain and upper partials or attractive "busyness" whereas, by contrast, the sibling strings were duller and shorter toned.   Ooooh.  Hmmm.  So began my exploration into this area. 
     
    Here is where I am to today - yet always subject to revising my thinking and feeling.   I have been doing the following with younger piano wire and freshly strung pianos.  It has been most all done on Steinway & Sons pianos which have trustworthy plates.  It ought not be done with older strings or brittle bridges:
     
        1)   First, piano is chip-tuned to A-442.
     
        2)  Action is now in place and then piano tuned to A-447 twice, these steps, to this point, all expeditiously done in succession.  I try to keep the piano to this pitch while in the shop.
     
        2)  Then, I firmly "Robinson Strate-Mate" the entire Capo Bar section, backing off on the amount of pressure applied to the lever in the highest notes.  This will leave these two sections substantially flatter.  Retune.
     
        3)  Seat all strings at bridges - on back bridge pins first, followed by just in front of front bridge pins.  Retune to A-447.
     
        4)  The minor-third treatment:  I do this in the Capo D'Astro Bar section when plagued with false beats and this one string at a time - up a minor third for the most change.  Leave 10-20 seconds while hitting key firmly and then back down to pitch.  Repeat on next string to the right, in ascending order, until the interval of a fifth is completed.  Then return to the first/lowest note in Capo Bar section and tune unison a bit flat to octave below.   They will continue rising in pitch, so its best to lower some good beats flat of pure octave.  Continue to where the minor third raising activity was left off and proceed another fifth's worth - then stopping and retuning those notes a bit flat to the octaves below keeping in mind they shall soon be sharp.  Repeat all of this to top while being careful to monitor the constant stretch and sharpening that is going on.  The notes will have risen in pitch. 
     
        5)  Next, tune entire Capo D'Astro Bar section two or three times right in a row.  All of the above typically takes me 2 -2.5 hours if not interrupted.  Leave piano for a few days and then retune as often as possible. 
     
    I am now using the Stephen Paulello "XM" wire for all my pianos, 16.5 up to top.  So far, I am extremely pleased with what I am hearing.  I have done this treatment to them too and have been most happy to this point.  I had expected, as a sort of payment for the extra strength, I might have to sacrifice on tone quality.  But that the added strength for heavily used practice instruments would still make the use of these wires worth a potential slight loss of sound quality.  However, I was thrilled to find that these wires have the best sound I've so far ever encountered.  Therefore, I will be using this wire on all my treble piano work from hereon in.   Tali





    ------------------------------
    John Minor
    The Piano Shop Inc
    Champaign IL
    thepianoshopcu@gmail.com
    www.thepianoshopcu.com
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-08-2021 11:27
    John M.,

    First off, thanks for reaching out to Tali and conveying her very thorough response to the rest of us. Although she has not opted to join PTG (and knowing why could make us a better organization), unless I've got it wrong, she and other non-members CAN participate in pianotech discussions.

    My first question is whether or not she has uses this technique on individual false-beating strings (as per her tale of original discovery), or if her experience indicates that it is most fruitful to do the entire capo sections, as described. 

    Thanks,

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Posted 12-08-2021 17:35
      |   view attached
    Pulling the pitch sharp a minor third pulls the string across the bridge and increases the tension in the back scale. Hopefully, the string will render across the bridge surface when bringing the speaking length back down to pitch. It could lend to an unstable tuning. Would pulling so sharp cause the bridge pins to be forced over into a tighter fit in the hole?

    What about removing the natural curve in the wire at the terminations? Certainly a wire moving thru the bridge pins will induce some curve but what about removing it when the string it stable at pitch? Using a Strat-Mate usually drops the pitch only 30 cents but that is only at the front terminations.

    Everyone has their pet work-arounds for false beats, mine is CA glue. For removing the natural curve at the bridge pins, the Terminator.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-08-2021 20:04
    i don't do this for false beats per se but, since Jon is talking string manipulation at the bridge pins, this is what I do:

    The piano is tuned to pitch.  I take a string hook or variation on that theme and pull the string laterally away from the front bridge pin and then do the same at the back bridge pin.  You will be surprised how much the pitch changes as the string renders into the backscale.  I then take a stabilizer  wire bending tool from Supply88 and use it to restore the bend at the front and rear pins.  I do this to all 88 notes.  This can be repeated periodically to equalize the tension  front to back.

    ------------------------------
    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Posted 12-08-2021 20:44
    Its quite possible that pulling the string that sharp, right at the front termination, not the whole string, but right at the pivot point, capo or agraffe, the string may exceed the elastic deformation limit, just locally at the termination. This may impart a slightly reduced stiffness locally. Just guessing.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-09-2021 00:47
    I recently did an experiment on a studio console.  I chalk marked every other hammer and did deep shoulder voicing far back on the shoulders on the marked hammers.  Nearly every hammer I voiced brightened; the opposite of what I expected.

    My point is that this is an objective experiment.  Marking every other note and doing a procedure creates a fair and random test.  Some notes will respond differently but from the whole instrument you can see the real result without your own personal bias.

    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-03-2021 08:13
    It's been my experience that the non-speaking length of the strings both by the tuning pins and the backside of the bridge control cleanliness of sound and stability of the string.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Coates
    Sioux Falls SD
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-03-2021 17:01
    Tim,

    This is an interesting statement.  I have been testing non-speaking string segments for years and I seldom can hear any changes in tone from muting the back duplex section (though I have not recently tested any tuning pin segment effects).  The front duplex section often contributes a significant amount of sound; in the high treble it can even contribute as much sound than the actual speaking length.

    A favorite gripe of mine is that I have more trouble with tuned front duplex sections than I do with the untuned, straight front duplex sections (like in many German and Austrian pianos and older Yamaha G2s).  You can recognize one of my tunings by the small, narrow strips of bushing felts I frequently leave in offending front duplex notes.

    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-04-2021 00:34
    The influence of Longitudinal mode energy on Transverse mode energy is powerful in the treble. Because the angular flexion of short strings is greater with hammer strike than longer strings; a higher proportion of energy is distributed into L-mode in shorter strings than in longer ones. Source: Podelsik and Lee in the Journal of the Acoustic Society of America.

    I have been using L-Mode behavior modeling in deriving how I approach false beats. I am convinced that many false beats are caused by L-Mode energy "distorting" the T-Mode terminations. This distortion produces a heterodyne effect. If the bridge allows the angular momentum of the L-modes to change the angular momentum of the T-modes, you get mode mixing.

    L-modes can also be generated by the angular momentum of the bridge itself, and this bridge driven angular momentum can be from either or both of the string modes that originated with hammer strike, but that are somewhat decoupled from the strike as a source once they transfer some momentum into the bridge/soundboard which has it's own periodic nature, and that bridge is able to generate modes itself. This is how bridge agraffes produce that peculiar ""whiny whir" of  sound.

    I have been spacing front and back rows of bridge pins as close as 10mm in the top two octaves for 25 years. The reason this termination produces less false beats is because the closer stagger pins make the termination stiffer, and this reduces the ability of the bridge to allow L-modes to distort the T-mode termination.

    Blaine observation about brass bridge pins is interesting. I remember an early mentor of mine who became convinced the "soft" mild steel bridge pins were absorbing treble frequency energy. He replaced them with pins made tool steel drill rod. The false beats went through the roof and the tuning was very, very difficult to stabilize. He kept doing this to several pianos and even convinced a couple of his acolytes to do the same to other pianos. The very hard bridge pins were behaving somewhat like bridge agraffes. I was not amused!

    Bridges that rock to L-modes are not cool.

    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-04-2021 01:13
    This is the missing data point that I was hoping for.  I wondered if hardened or tempered stainless pins might make a difference in tuning stability and string clarity, while I haven't tried it someone else has and it didn't seem to help.  I haven't (yet) tuned one of the Bosendorfers that I have seen with brass bridge pins but that seems to be a good idea.  I will let you know.

    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Posted 12-04-2021 09:22
    Ask M&H about the first hard Stainless pins they used on their current production pianos...beats and noise to beat the band. They procured an annealed version of the stainless pins, to replace those hard pins. To my ear, they still are one of the noisiest pianos on the market, even with the annealed stainless pins. Bruce thinks this noise is an important attribute of power. I think its noise, and will not play those pianos...too bad too. 

    They also render with difficulty.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-05-2021 12:57
    And W,N&G sells the annealed pins to techs. DON'T USE THEM MY FRIENDS!

    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-09-2021 09:36
    Wow. I just now read this thread. It was like a good book I couldn't put down. Got geek? Thanks so much, Blaine, for starting this, and thanks Ed for giving me a light bulb moment. Something about treble strings didn't register until now...omg...duh.

    I don't have much to contribute, but I wanted to say thanks and share an experience I had yesterday. It was the 4th time I've come across a non-wound string pair replacement in which someone got the strings going to the wrong pins (sorry if I'm missing proper vocabulary). I decided to fix it, but without a shift at the hitch pin, I had one short coil and one long coil. I tried pulling the string across the hitch pin by simply over-tightening the short coil while the long one was loose. I may have not tried to tighten it enough, but it wasn't budging. I had to create a new bend for the hitch pin if I wanted equal coils. I know one can change tension on NSLs past the bridge pins, but it seems like it would typically be hard to do. I'm just throwing this out there to see what reaction I get, if any. Understand I don't do the kind of work you all do and my experience and knowledge in these areas is very limited, so I hope this isn't too ignorant. Hope this is on topic enough. If not, just ignore. ;-)

    Thanks again!

    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel, RPT
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-04-2021 09:29
    Blaine,

    I started to write a lengthy description of what I do, but decided to delete it because I'm tired of people arguing.  It's simple:  Seat/equalize strings and voice.  The soundboard/bridge move and expect it to happen certain times of the year.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Coates
    Sioux Falls SD
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Member
    Posted 12-06-2021 10:49
    Blaine,
    There was a guy they called Duplex Dan,, about twenty years ago. I ask a lot of questions so
    Bob Davis, Dale Erwin and myself were having the discussion about whether duplex scales needed to be tuned and Bob quoted some tech as saying it makes no difference but he hadn't tried.
    I said maybe it was the piano the guy tested. Pianos are built differently. Then I suggested we pick a piano in the shop and see. It was a Steinway, I think an A, which of course has a tuned duplex scale. We rigged something to mute the back scale quickly.
    I thought there was difference immediately but they had to play with it and agreed there was a difference. 
    Knowing which piano needs to be attended to is the key.

    ------------------------------
    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Behavior of strings at the bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-07-2021 17:44
    That would be Dan Franklin, in the NYC chapter. He died a number of years back.
    His alter ego was Mago Franklin, the leader, pianist and singer of the Avenue B Social Club on Manhattan’s Lower East Side. Fun stuff, songs in Spanish and an appropriately beat up and not so tuned piano to accompany.

    Joe Wiencek