Sometimes in spinets, the beats are very hard to hear and distinguish. I occasionally get confused because certain partials just are not very clear.
The width of the A3-A4 octave MUST be the exact same width as the F3-F4 octave for everything to work properly with the contigous M3's. You can check octave size with the P4/P5 test, or with the M3/M10 test.
For example, tune the A3-A4 octave for the best sound. On a Wurlitzer spinet, it's likely that a 4:2 octave will sound the best (but it's OK if it's slightly narrower). Then check to see what kind of octave it is by comparing the beat rates of A3-D4 and D4-A4. Then tune the F3-F4 octave. Compare beat rates of F3-A#3 and A#3-F4 with those of A3-D4 and D4-A4. If their respective beat rates are the same, the octaves are the same width.
Once equal octave width is done, then (and only then) can you proceed to
correctly setting up the contiguous M3's. If the contiguous M3's are uneven, then you make small changes in the octaves until they are correct. I would start with a 4:2 octave to see how that works. That would mean A3-D4 and D4-A4 beat exactly the same, and F3-A#3 and A#3-F4 beat exactly the same. You can also check for a 4:2 octave when the M3/M10 beat exactly the same.
For a Wurlitzer spinet, I would make A3-A4 a 4:2 octave, and then adjust F3-F4 so that contiguous M3's will fit. Don't obsess over it, because you will have uneven beat rates somewhere. Nothing will line up perfectly, but you can still get pretty close in a Wurlitzer spinet, at least in the temperament octave. I usually favor 4ths and 5ths over M3's in a spinet, because you'll never get perfectly ascending and descending M3's. And the bass will be a bit wonky no matter what. Your job is to make it sound as good as it can. I usually prefer 4:2 octaves in the bass of Wurlitzer spinet, and at some point your ear will want you to start tuning 6:3 octaves. Don't make the mistake of tuning 6:3 octaves just because it is a wound string.
I hope my coffee has worked, and the above is clear enough.
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John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2019 00:50
From: Enrico Cannella
Subject: Sanderson Accu-Tuner iv Temperament Setting
I'll definitely try playing with the double octave beats. I'm new to the whole concept and how to actually use it on my tuning device so it's good to learn now. I'm a little hesitant to narrow octaves, at least the A, considering when I run a 3rd-10th test, A4 usually will beat the same, if not slower in some cases, than A3. I think the issue is with the F-F octave. Since the A3-C#4 is what's beating too slowly. It's odd. The ladder of thirds increase evenly until the A3-C#4, then in a way resets, and continues a gradual increase all the way back up to F4-A4, and those are perfectly even. Very strange to me.
Thank you for the inspiring words. I have definitely reached a level of doubt in my studies about my adequacy, so it's so nice to hear from you all. Good to know it can only get better from here!
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Enrico Cannella
ALEXANDRIA LA
Original Message:
Sent: 01-18-2019 00:13
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Sanderson Accu-Tuner iv Temperament Setting
I don't remember if I tuned any Wurlitzer spinets before I switched to CyberTuner. Most of my spinets at that point were Cable-Nelson and Baldwins. I do remember you can use the D.O. Beat function to stretch the octaves differently. Perhaps try narrowing the octaves by -0.5, tune the temperament octave, and see what the results are. You'll have to experiment around and find out how much the octaves need to be modified (either positive or negative) to find what works for that piano.
The fact that that you can hear the beats is great! That's the prerequisite for doing a good tuning. Keep up the good work, and don't give up when it gets hard! Perseverance pays off big time in this industry. Also remember David Andersen's words: "In tuning, perfection doesn't exist; heavy excellence does." Strive for perfection, but also realize when a piano has reached the best you can get it to today. Don't be disappointed but remember that in the very least you've made it a little less worse and a little more musical than it was before.
All the best,
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Benjamin Sanchez
Professional Piano Services
(805)315-8050
www.professional-piano-services.com
Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2019 22:49
From: John Formsma
Subject: Sanderson Accu-Tuner iv Temperament Setting
Being a Wurlitzer spinet, an FAC tuning probably will not be optimal. The Reyburn CyberTuner (RCT) does a pretty good job on Wurlitzer spinets, and I can do a good job aurally also. I usually like what RCT does for the plain wires on the Wurlitzer spinets. Usually I tune the bass aurally on all spinets and small consoles as I can get a better match aurally.
It has been since the 1990's that I used an AccuTuner, but my recollection is that you'd have to modify the FAC numbers to get a good tuning with the machine. Too many irregularities and a lot of inharmonicity to deal with in the Wurlitzer spinets. It would probably take a good bit of experimentation to find what works best. Maybe someone can share how they have modified the FAC numbers to get a good tuning on that particular spinet.
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John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2019 22:39
From: Enrico Cannella
Subject: Sanderson Accu-Tuner iv Temperament Setting
Ok so I tuned my piano with the page and it ended up the same so maybe it's just the optimum tuning I can do on it. I have no way of knowing that really being a beginner. I'm working with a Wurlitzer Spinet Model: 2111 Serial No.: I505675.
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Enrico Cannella
ALEXANDRIA LA
Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2019 08:41
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Sanderson Accu-Tuner iv Temperament Setting
Enrico,
Patrick could very well be right on the money...
However, since you are clearly able to HEAR the beats so as to know they are not right, why not try correcting them AURALLY? But as Pat said, if your piano is one that we might refer to as one of the "untunables", no machine or set of ears will be able to fix it...its in the DNA of the piano.
So we await your reply.
Pwg
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Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2019 06:50
From: Patrick Draine
Subject: Sanderson Accu-Tuner iv Temperament Setting
Please tell us something about your piano: 6' long grand or 4'10" in length, and 48" tall upright or 36" tall spinet? Old or new? Nice tone or clangy? Sometimes the piano is the villain.
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Patrick Draine
Billerica MA
978-663-9690
Original Message:
Sent: 01-16-2019 21:51
From: Enrico Cannella
Subject: Sanderson Accu-Tuner iv Temperament Setting
Hi all,
This is my first time posting on this forum. I am a new piano technician out in Louisiana. I am a current student of the Randy Potter course and am still working toward my certification. I have recently purchased the Sanderson Accu-Tuner IV to assist in rapidly increasing my tuning speed and skills, but have run into a few problems that maybe some of you can help me out with. I have been attempting to set a temperament on my personal piano for quite some time with the Accu-Tuner, but have run into a problem that I seem to be unable to find a solution for. When I set the temperament, I find that my F3-A3 3rd beat speed is way too fast, and my A3-C#4 3rd beat speed is too slow, slower than my F3-D4 beat speed, and thus making my ladder of 3rds uneven. It seems to me that this must be an operator error. I suspect that this is possibly an octave stretching issue, and when I try to stretch the A octave, I still have the same problems. Same with stretching the F octaves. If anyone can offer some advice on how to fix these beat rates so they will be even and I can set a correct temperament, I'd be ever so grateful. If this post is not where it belongs, then I apologize and will seek further counsel somewhere else.
Thank you.
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Enrico Cannella
ALEXANDRIA LA
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