I am finally re-entering the forum to put the photos of some things on this Steinway that I was surprised to find, mainly because I have tuned some in the past but never done any work that would cause me to look at the design of the bridge and plate.
Maybe this should be a separate thread, but since it COULD be related to a buzz I'm posting it here.
I thought from the start that it sounded like a sympathetic buzz from something in the piano, and that's what I think now. I even determined that it seems to be louder at the bottom of the piano and possibly near the tenor section of the bridge. (I know these sounds can be deceiving, so I can't say for sure.) But what it is and where it is is still a mystery that I'm hoping will be solved when I go back in mid-May and the local (to the piano) tuner and I tip the piano over and take the bottom board off so we can see if there's anything behind the plate that would cause this. (Of course one thing that is probably causing it now is the end of my antenna magnet back there. So at least I can pry that loose and get it out of there.)
To recap - the buzz happens on some bass notes and several of the first tenor notes (plain steel strings) when played on a moderately hard or hard blow. It starts right after the hammer hits, buzzes for a few seconds, then abruptly stops. It started happening after a local tuner put the repaired sustain pedal back in. I believe I have ruled out all the usual suspects and those suggested by you folks, altho I will thoroughly revisit those when there are two of us at the piano and I can do better testing.
The second time I was at the piano no one else was home. Here was what I was dealing with logistically:
The same kind of situation on the other side of the piano - a big bookcase. When the piano is pushed all the way back, there would only be about 2" on either side of it. Casters (original it looked like) were dug way down into the carpet. I was finally able to pull one end of the piano forward enough to slide in behind. I found one of those long shoe horns in an umbrella stand and wrapped a micro rag around the end of it so I could hit one of the offending notes while standing behind the piano and press against the ribs/soundboard with a foot. Not ideal.
So, the "interesting" design.
Here is my crude drawing of how the end of the tenor section of the bridge and that area of the plate are designed.
This seems like such a terrible idea to me, but 1) I am not an acoustic engineer and 2) Steinway has done some dumb things over time. I labeled the "V" of the plate and the "J" of the bridge just to make it easier to talk about.
The part of the bridge with strings is cut way down right before it meets the V of the plate. I assumed the bridge stopped there until I looked closer. What's that jutting out from behind the left side of the V? Thought it was something someone wedged in there to stop a buzz. But no. The bridge continues behind the V of the plate, altho only about 1/8" high, to sort of form a J.
That wouldn't be too weird I guess, but compounding the fact that you can't get to that stuff back there is that there are two places where the underside of the bridge is cut out - like trimmed back from the soundboard.
One place is on the J extension that's behind the V of the plate. I couldn't actually see it because I couldn't get my head close enough to the soundboard to look down there. But I could slide a metal ruler behind the wood. So weird! I put the end of my phone right up against the soundboard and snapped a photo:
The other bridge cut out starts about an inch or two from where the strings start and runs about 5".
The plate is "buried" in the bottom board. A trough is chiseled out and the plate is in that, with very little clearance. No way to get to any screws that might be down there to tighten them (until the bottom board is off).
Two curiosities that I don't think have anything to do with the buzz.
While re-examining the back of the soundboard looking for rib separation, etc., I saw this:
I think they are about where the J extension is on the other side. I really didn't care enough to measure exactly from the front and back to see. They are not loose, and there are no screws, just what looks like a plug in the center of each one (possibly covering a screw?).
Also, my friend told me that this came from the piano:
A thin stick of wood with three nails in it, rounded edges on one side. I looked all around the piano for some place it could possibly have come from. The piano was designed with only two pedals, so it's not a muffler rail. I couldn't find nail holes anywhere. Hmmm. Just now I'm wondering whether it was something that held a cloth over the back of the piano - like when the back is facing people instead of a wall. I didn't look up there on the back for nail holes, but I will. But what are the rub marks?
Like all of you, I really hate not being able to figure things out. And the only thing that mitigated my self loathing about breaking off that antenna behind the plate was remembering the Squirrel Cop segment from This American Life. I have it on my phone but I didn't need to re-listen to it because I pretty much know it by heart. If you want to feel like it's a good day when you don't set somebody's couch on fire in an effort to "help" them, listen to that. Just google "Squirrel Cop." It's one of their most famous (true) stories.
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Barbara Barasa
Ashland OR
541-552-9349
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Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2019 21:24
From: Barbara Barasa
Subject: 1909 Steinway upright - buzz
Oh Great and Wise Piano Colleagues!! Send me your insights!
I was asked by a cellist friend to fix a buzz on the 1909 Steinway upright in her home. Even tho buzzes are one of my least favorite things, I wanted to impress her with what a great tech I am. She lives 4 hours away from me in a "piano tech wasteland" (very very few techs anywhere near her), but I was playing in her orchestra for the week so said I'd take a look. I don't know who her local tech is. He recently, brought back and put in a pedal that had broken off quite awhile ago and tuned the piano. I didn't check the tuning rigorously, but what I did check (aurally) was well in tune - a good sign! However, he did not notice the buzzing. She noticed it after he left. The piano was obviously reconditioned or maybe even rebuilt at some point. Hammers replaced and still like new, etc. Piano is in excellent condition. No soundboard cracks or repairs. Dampers are not crunchy.
I checked to see if it was something vibrating sympathetically in or around the piano, including down in the back where things fall. Couldn't find anything and I don't think that's it. Sounds like it is coming from inside the piano. Bass bridge has cracks between bridge pins but the buzzing also happens on some tenor strings and no cracks in treble bridge, so gave up on that theory. No indication the bass bridge itself had shifted. Saw no indication of ribs separating from soundboard. I tightened all the lid hinge screws and put lube between the hinge parts. Buzzing didn't stop when I blocked all the bass strings with my forearm and played some buzzy tenor notes.
Tried to take fallboard lock out and try the "spring fix" but can't figure out how to get the lock out of the cabinet. Years of crud are probably holding it in and I was afraid I'd damage the cabinet trying to pry it out. I'd have tried some lubricant around the edge of the lock, but I'd already spent way too much time dinking around and we have a concert tonight (not with her home piano!) so I left.
Buzz happens immediately after hammer strike on hard blow on most bass notes and some in tenor section (plain wire). Buzz stops abruptly after a few seconds.
Any suggestions for other things to look at?
I did notice something odd, but I don't think it could be causing this problem that just started. Near the very end of the treble bridge, where the longest strings are, it looks like the very edge of the bridge is slightly carved out. I took a photo if anyone wants to see it. A feature or a glitch?
What am I missing? (having to do with this situation - not in general - that list would be long)
Barb
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Barbara Barasa
Ashland OR
541-552-9349
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