Pianotech

  • 1.  Abel Knuckles

    Member
    Posted 04-25-2023 21:50

    Can someone tell me where the score mark on Abel knuckles should face ? should the line be toward the hammer felt or facing the stack & keyboard ? I am replacing the chewed up/shredded knuckles on a Samick



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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  • 2.  RE: Abel Knuckles

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-26-2023 09:06

    James, 

    People have different preferences as to which direction they like to have the nap going. But they would all agree that whichever direction is selected, all knuckles should be oriented in the same way.

    Best, 

    Alan 



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    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
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  • 3.  RE: Abel Knuckles

    Posted 04-26-2023 09:07

    Hi Jim,

    It does not matter which direction BUT all of them should be placed in the SAME DIRECTION!



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    Melanie Brooks
    Brooks, Ltd. Piano Products LLC
    Uncasville CT
    (860) 848-6605
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  • 4.  RE: Abel Knuckles

    Member
    Posted 04-26-2023 09:32

    thank you both I would not be happy if I put them in wrong the mark is a great idea The existing knuckles are shredded wheat



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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  • 5.  RE: Abel Knuckles

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-26-2023 12:16

    Check the nap of the knuckles.  Greatest resistance when the jack is rising:  least when coming down to rest.  I believe is to indicate direction of nap.



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    Parker Leigh
    Winchester VA
    (540) 722-3865
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  • 6.  RE: Abel Knuckles

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-26-2023 16:58
    James,
    I assume these are ecsaine knuckles, but there is usually still a nap to it. If you can’t see the nap direction, you can feel with your lip (a tip from Newton Hunt.)

    Joe Wiencek




  • 7.  RE: Abel Knuckles

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-27-2023 15:39

    Here is what I wrote about that back in June of 2020:
    When replacing knuckles, investigate if the knuckle covering has a nap. (from a dictionary definition:  "the raised hairs, threads, or similar small projections on the surface of fabric or suede (used especially with reference to the direction in which they naturally lie"). Your supplier should be able to tell you that information.  When we replaced knuckles, they were genuine buckskin .I'm not sure what material is used now or if it has two "feels" depending on the direction. Back then, the replacement knuckles came with a pencil mark on the buckskin on one side near the spline and the idea was to make sure all knuckles went in with the nap running the same direction by paying attention to the pencil marks.
    Our friend who works at Renner would not only feel with a finger which way the nap ran, but tested it on his lip which is more sensitive. My preference is to have the jack initially work "against the grain" which gives a nice "crunch" to the key stroke. Then the smoother direction gets the jack back under the knuckle, ready for repetition, faster. But I have heard others prefer the opposite direction I guess for faster action speed on the key stroke. Just another thing to consider for this project.
    Joel
    and
    Personally, I feel the after touch as a "crunch" and try to make that feel as even as possible. Performing artists have, in my experience, appreciated that feel and the evenness. So my reason for going against the grain on the keystroke is that it fits right in with the "crunch" feel of the after touch, especially considering that the escaping jack is a major part of after touch.  Further, it is not so much that the player feels the jack slipping back under the jack as they want it back as quickly as possible for the next key stroke.  Alicia de la Rocha was happy when she could repeat as fast as she wanted without letting the key return all the way up. Having the knuckle nap smooth on the jack return contributed immensely to accomplishing that, as well as having the knuckles lubricated with talc or teflon powder or whatever you prefer. Most artists with whom I have worked also want that quick repetition. In my opinion, having the jack top fight the rough nap during its return would slow these top performers down.
    Now some might say "The rep lever raises the knuckle up so the jack top is not contacting the knuckle on its return." To which I would say "Not as fast as the top performers play; it seems these players need the jack back in position and ready to work before the wippen spring can think about raising up the rep lever."  And keep in mind, these folks have pretty strong fingers and control so a little bit of resistance on the key stroke not only presents no problem for them but most likely adds to their control. That's my read of the situation. Also, our general philosophy is to give the home user the same top-performing action as the one set up on stages.  I can't tell you the number of times a customer at home has had their teacher or even a top-performing friend come over and try the newly rebuilt piano. So we use the best materials and procedures we can.  But if casual players at home are bothered by the resistance, I can see why a technician would want the nap going the other way. Anyone else prefer one way or the other and what are your reasons?
    Joel



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    Joel Rappaport
    Round Rock TX
    (512) 255-0440
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  • 8.  RE: Abel Knuckles

    Member
    Posted 04-27-2023 23:56

    I made an inquiry today to Piano Tek since I purchase lots of supplies from them and carry Abel knuckles. I was told that the line on the knuckle should face toward the hammers. Thanks to the response from the Rappaports about the nap. I have not yet examined the new knuckles under my electronic microscope but intend to sometime tomorrow. If I can save the magnified image I will upload it 



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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