Pianotech

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Have you looked it up in the dictionary? (……not the answer you'd expect.)

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774

Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2024 22:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Hi Bill, 

Actually I did (albeit online dictionary)...not much pertaining to pianos. 😉  Even checked (briefly) the etymology...Nadal Edit: However it is conceivable that I missed something of great importance. 

Secondary edit:  Of course in woodworking a "dog" is used as a means of immobilizing a workpiece on the bench for processing. And there are several "species" of dogs to accomplish this, at least one of these is U shaped and used to firmly clamp the piece to the bench, afterwards to be smacked sideways to release. This profile appears to "resemble" the "dag" used in most pianos, though (TMK) no actual "clamping" is performed in the design. It appears rather to be more of a passive restraint to prevent excess unwanted movement in at least two directions. Whether it was designed to be multifunctional or singularly functional (e.g., key up-stop rail) is the focal point of the inquiry. 

Just curious...inquiring minds want to know...

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2024 09:18
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

Have you looked it up in the dictionary? (……not the answer you'd expect.)

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774

Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2024 22:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

"Piano Parts and Their Functions", 1st edition 1972, my copy is the 3rd printing of the 2nd edition (1981). Available from the Home Office, published by PTG.

If that ain't good enough for you, download a stack of manuals and parts lists from multiple piano manufacturers (many to be found on the PTG website). 

Hi Bill, 

Actually I did (albeit online dictionary)...not much pertaining to pianos. 😉  Even checked (briefly) the etymology...Nadal Edit: However it is conceivable that I missed something of great importance. 

Secondary edit:  Of course in woodworking a "dog" is used as a means of immobilizing a workpiece on the bench for processing. And there are several "species" of dogs to accomplish this, at least one of these is U shaped and used to firmly clamp the piece to the bench, afterwards to be smacked sideways to release. This profile appears to "resemble" the "dag" used in most pianos, though (TMK) no actual "clamping" is performed in the design. It appears rather to be more of a passive restraint to prevent excess unwanted movement in at least two directions. Whether it was designed to be multifunctional or singularly functional (e.g., key up-stop rail) is the focal point of the inquiry. 

Just curious...inquiring minds want to know...

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2024 09:18
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

Have you looked it up in the dictionary? (……not the answer you'd expect.)

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774

Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2024 22:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Woodcraft sells "bench dogs" but no dags. Maybe dags are dogs with a regional accent? Woof.

https://www.woodcraft.com/search?q=bench+dog&options%5Bprefix%5D=last&view=products

"Piano Parts and Their Functions", 1st edition 1972, my copy is the 3rd printing of the 2nd edition (1981). Available from the Home Office, published by PTG.

If that ain't good enough for you, download a stack of manuals and parts lists from multiple piano manufacturers (many to be found on the PTG website). 

Hi Bill, 

Actually I did (albeit online dictionary)...not much pertaining to pianos. 😉  Even checked (briefly) the etymology...Nadal Edit: However it is conceivable that I missed something of great importance. 

Secondary edit:  Of course in woodworking a "dog" is used as a means of immobilizing a workpiece on the bench for processing. And there are several "species" of dogs to accomplish this, at least one of these is U shaped and used to firmly clamp the piece to the bench, afterwards to be smacked sideways to release. This profile appears to "resemble" the "dag" used in most pianos, though (TMK) no actual "clamping" is performed in the design. It appears rather to be more of a passive restraint to prevent excess unwanted movement in at least two directions. Whether it was designed to be multifunctional or singularly functional (e.g., key up-stop rail) is the focal point of the inquiry. 

Just curious...inquiring minds want to know...

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2024 09:18
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

Have you looked it up in the dictionary? (……not the answer you'd expect.)

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774

Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2024 22:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

A little further research shows that the German "dagege" means against. Perhaps dag is a shortened version of a stop block in German. 

The only reference to "dag" is "dag block" referred to once in the S&S/Boston/Essex worldwide reference guide. 

Oxford English Dictionary traces bench dog only back to 1860.

Btw, said Worldwide Guide can be found here: https://pianotuner.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/chp6.pdf

Woodcraft sells "bench dogs" but no dags. Maybe dags are dogs with a regional accent? Woof.

https://www.woodcraft.com/search?q=bench+dog&options%5Bprefix%5D=last&view=products

"Piano Parts and Their Functions", 1st edition 1972, my copy is the 3rd printing of the 2nd edition (1981). Available from the Home Office, published by PTG.

If that ain't good enough for you, download a stack of manuals and parts lists from multiple piano manufacturers (many to be found on the PTG website). 

Hi Bill, 

Actually I did (albeit online dictionary)...not much pertaining to pianos. 😉  Even checked (briefly) the etymology...Nadal Edit: However it is conceivable that I missed something of great importance. 

Secondary edit:  Of course in woodworking a "dog" is used as a means of immobilizing a workpiece on the bench for processing. And there are several "species" of dogs to accomplish this, at least one of these is U shaped and used to firmly clamp the piece to the bench, afterwards to be smacked sideways to release. This profile appears to "resemble" the "dag" used in most pianos, though (TMK) no actual "clamping" is performed in the design. It appears rather to be more of a passive restraint to prevent excess unwanted movement in at least two directions. Whether it was designed to be multifunctional or singularly functional (e.g., key up-stop rail) is the focal point of the inquiry. 

Just curious...inquiring minds want to know...

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2024 09:18
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

Have you looked it up in the dictionary? (……not the answer you'd expect.)

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774

Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2024 22:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Hi Bill, 

Actually I did (albeit online dictionary)...not much pertaining to pianos. 😉  Even checked (briefly) the etymology...Nadal Edit: However it is conceivable that I missed something of great importance. 

Secondary edit:  Of course in woodworking a "dog" is used as a means of immobilizing a workpiece on the bench for processing. And there are several "species" of dogs to accomplish this, at least one of these is U shaped and used to firmly clamp the piece to the bench, afterwards to be smacked sideways to release. This profile appears to "resemble" the "dag" used in most pianos, though (TMK) no actual "clamping" is performed in the design. It appears rather to be more of a passive restraint to prevent excess unwanted movement in at least two directions. Whether it was designed to be multifunctional or singularly functional (e.g., key up-stop rail) is the focal point of the inquiry. 

Just curious...inquiring minds want to know...

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2024 09:18
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

Have you looked it up in the dictionary? (……not the answer you'd expect.)

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774

Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2024 22:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Peter Grey went:

"Actually I did (albeit online dictionary)...not much pertaining to pianos. "

Of course, this definition is from halfway around the world <G>

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774

Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2024 11:10
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

Hi Bill, 

Actually I did (albeit online dictionary)...not much pertaining to pianos. 😉  Even checked (briefly) the etymology...Nadal Edit: However it is conceivable that I missed something of great importance. 

Secondary edit:  Of course in woodworking a "dog" is used as a means of immobilizing a workpiece on the bench for processing. And there are several "species" of dogs to accomplish this, at least one of these is U shaped and used to firmly clamp the piece to the bench, afterwards to be smacked sideways to release. This profile appears to "resemble" the "dag" used in most pianos, though (TMK) no actual "clamping" is performed in the design. It appears rather to be more of a passive restraint to prevent excess unwanted movement in at least two directions. Whether it was designed to be multifunctional or singularly functional (e.g., key up-stop rail) is the focal point of the inquiry. 

Just curious...inquiring minds want to know...

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2024 09:18
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

Have you looked it up in the dictionary? (……not the answer you'd expect.)

------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107

"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774

Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2024 22:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Per the PTG manual archives:

Steinway and Kawai call them "dags", Yamaha calls them "key frame stops". Bosendorfer seems to call them "keyblocks".

Fazioli calls them "Fine cosa tastiera/keyboard dog block".

So, you know, just don't call them late for dinner.

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Per the PTG manual archives:

Steinway and Kawai call them "dags", Yamaha calls them "key frame stops". Bosendorfer seems to call them "keyblocks".

Fazioli calls them "Fine cosa tastiera/keyboard dog block".

So, you know, just don't call them late for dinner.

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

This is how language evolves!

Someone, perhaps because of a strong accent (Bostonian?) called a dog a dag and the name stuck.  It is likely that dog is the original term, but it is also possible that dog may have evolved from dag and dag might be the correct term. Who knows?

Woodworkers use dog and the function is similar enough that dog is probably correct, but much of our industry uses dag.  Perhaps we should go to "dogdag"?

Google translates "Fine cosa tastiera" as "End of keyboard thing"! 

I will know what you are talking about if you use dog or dag.

Per the PTG manual archives:

Steinway and Kawai call them "dags", Yamaha calls them "key frame stops". Bosendorfer seems to call them "keyblocks".

Fazioli calls them "Fine cosa tastiera/keyboard dog block".

So, you know, just don't call them late for dinner.

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Will Truitt,

Everyone in/from Maryland knows the correct pronunciation of Baltimore is "Bawlmer"!! :-)

Dave

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Dang! I guess it's all in your relative "POV"! 😉 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Will Truitt,

Everyone in/from Maryland knows the correct pronunciation of Baltimore is "Bawlmer"!! :-)

Dave

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Interesting that this discussion, begun (most recently on this forum) in February, has resurfaced... yet again.

With all due respect...

The word is dag.  The term is German and the correct pronunciation (in German) is "dog."  It is also sometimes referred to as a dag-block.

My source for this is Bill Garlick, RPT who, during his years teaching at Steinway NY, made a point of correcting mis-pronunciation and/or mis-understanding of the origin of this particular part name among his students there at the factory.

All the best,

__ Alan Crane, RPT

316-680-7435  cell/txt

alan2crane@gmail.com

Dang! I guess it's all in your relative "POV"! 😉 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Will Truitt,

Everyone in/from Maryland knows the correct pronunciation of Baltimore is "Bawlmer"!! :-)

Dave

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

As a woodworker, in all the classes and articles I've read & taken, a bench stop is most often referred to as a dag.  And that is probably why the woodworkers at Steinway referred to it that way.  However, more recently, I am hearing both ways.  I think it has just morphed into dog as it was spread by word of mouth rather than through text.  Common usage trumps tradition.

So, presently, probably both are correct.

As for Dawg.....that's a howling error for this use.

Interesting that this discussion, begun (most recently on this forum) in February, has resurfaced... yet again.

With all due respect...

The word is dag.  The term is German and the correct pronunciation (in German) is "dog."  It is also sometimes referred to as a dag-block.

My source for this is Bill Garlick, RPT who, during his years teaching at Steinway NY, made a point of correcting mis-pronunciation and/or mis-understanding of the origin of this particular part name among his students there at the factory.

All the best,

__ Alan Crane, RPT

316-680-7435  cell/txt

alan2crane@gmail.com

Dang! I guess it's all in your relative "POV"! 😉 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Will Truitt,

Everyone in/from Maryland knows the correct pronunciation of Baltimore is "Bawlmer"!! :-)

Dave

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Jeannie,

Unless I have lost my mind, which is entirely possible, "dog" has been used by English speaking woodworkers to define a location or pinch-down device for many centuries.

David G. Hughes, RPT 

As a woodworker, in all the classes and articles I've read & taken, a bench stop is most often referred to as a dag.  And that is probably why the woodworkers at Steinway referred to it that way.  However, more recently, I am hearing both ways.  I think it has just morphed into dog as it was spread by word of mouth rather than through text.  Common usage trumps tradition.

So, presently, probably both are correct.

As for Dawg.....that's a howling error for this use.

Interesting that this discussion, begun (most recently on this forum) in February, has resurfaced... yet again.

With all due respect...

The word is dag.  The term is German and the correct pronunciation (in German) is "dog."  It is also sometimes referred to as a dag-block.

My source for this is Bill Garlick, RPT who, during his years teaching at Steinway NY, made a point of correcting mis-pronunciation and/or mis-understanding of the origin of this particular part name among his students there at the factory.

All the best,

__ Alan Crane, RPT

316-680-7435  cell/txt

alan2crane@gmail.com

Dang! I guess it's all in your relative "POV"! 😉 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Will Truitt,

Everyone in/from Maryland knows the correct pronunciation of Baltimore is "Bawlmer"!! :-)

Dave

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Will Truitt,

Everyone in/from Maryland knows the correct pronunciation of Baltimore is "Bawlmer"!! :-)

Dave

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I stand corrected, David.  Of course, you are right (he says sheepishly).  I've lived in Cow Hampsha for too long.   Miss them Orsters too. 

Will Truitt,

Everyone in/from Maryland knows the correct pronunciation of Baltimore is "Bawlmer"!! :-)

Dave

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I'll comment on the state of David's mind...well, maybe not  😉 

So actually the explanation of "dag" but pronounced as "dog" by a German speaker (to me now) makes the most sense of all. I can see how English speakers would cone away thinking "dog" whereas the German speakers would know exactly what was meant. 

Kind if reminds me of the the old English term "ye" which most of us would pronounce exactly as we see it. However when one learns that the letter "y" was used by printers as a substitute for the "extinct" letter that was actually pronounced as "th" ... thus "ye" means "the" and therefore one who knew would actually say "the" as in "ye old Yankee tavern"..."the old Yankee tavern, etc, etc.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I stand corrected, David.  Of course, you are right (he says sheepishly).  I've lived in Cow Hampsha for too long.   Miss them Orsters too. 

Will Truitt,

Everyone in/from Maryland knows the correct pronunciation of Baltimore is "Bawlmer"!! :-)

Dave

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

After some fairly thorough searching including German centric sites, I can't find any references to "dag" except for stuff like "dagnabbit". But there are many references to "dog", including in tool catalogues and engineering glossaries. So I'm supposing that it was the German craftsman who misspelled dog into dag. 

So David, it looks like your mind hasn't been lost. 

I asked ChatGPT for other terms that might predate dogs and got quite a list for woodworking, metalworking, and blacksmithing. Including holdfasts, frogs, chocks, bulls, lugs, blocks, and stops. 

In Germany, the term for bench dogs is "Werkzeugstöcke" or sometimes simply "Stöcke". The word "Werkzeugstöcke" translates to "tool blocks" or "tool pegs," and "Stöcke" translates to "stocks" or "pegs." (Per chatGPT)

So, the AI had never heard about a "dag" until I hipped it to the term, but it did know what a Steinway sustaining monkey is, it didn't know its function but it does now. ;-)

I'll comment on the state of David's mind...well, maybe not  😉 

So actually the explanation of "dag" but pronounced as "dog" by a German speaker (to me now) makes the most sense of all. I can see how English speakers would cone away thinking "dog" whereas the German speakers would know exactly what was meant. 

Kind if reminds me of the the old English term "ye" which most of us would pronounce exactly as we see it. However when one learns that the letter "y" was used by printers as a substitute for the "extinct" letter that was actually pronounced as "th" ... thus "ye" means "the" and therefore one who knew would actually say "the" as in "ye old Yankee tavern"..."the old Yankee tavern, etc, etc.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I stand corrected, David.  Of course, you are right (he says sheepishly).  I've lived in Cow Hampsha for too long.   Miss them Orsters too. 

Will Truitt,

Everyone in/from Maryland knows the correct pronunciation of Baltimore is "Bawlmer"!! :-)

Dave

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Steve,

Since you brought it up, do you (or anyone else) know the legend behind how the SS monkey got it's name?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

After some fairly thorough searching including German centric sites, I can't find any references to "dag" except for stuff like "dagnabbit". But there are many references to "dog", including in tool catalogues and engineering glossaries. So I'm supposing that it was the German craftsman who misspelled dog into dag. 

So David, it looks like your mind hasn't been lost. 

I asked ChatGPT for other terms that might predate dogs and got quite a list for woodworking, metalworking, and blacksmithing. Including holdfasts, frogs, chocks, bulls, lugs, blocks, and stops. 

In Germany, the term for bench dogs is "Werkzeugstöcke" or sometimes simply "Stöcke". The word "Werkzeugstöcke" translates to "tool blocks" or "tool pegs," and "Stöcke" translates to "stocks" or "pegs." (Per chatGPT)

So, the AI had never heard about a "dag" until I hipped it to the term, but it did know what a Steinway sustaining monkey is, it didn't know its function but it does now. ;-)

I'll comment on the state of David's mind...well, maybe not  😉 

So actually the explanation of "dag" but pronounced as "dog" by a German speaker (to me now) makes the most sense of all. I can see how English speakers would cone away thinking "dog" whereas the German speakers would know exactly what was meant. 

Kind if reminds me of the the old English term "ye" which most of us would pronounce exactly as we see it. However when one learns that the letter "y" was used by printers as a substitute for the "extinct" letter that was actually pronounced as "th" ... thus "ye" means "the" and therefore one who knew would actually say "the" as in "ye old Yankee tavern"..."the old Yankee tavern, etc, etc.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I stand corrected, David.  Of course, you are right (he says sheepishly).  I've lived in Cow Hampsha for too long.   Miss them Orsters too. 

Will Truitt,

Everyone in/from Maryland knows the correct pronunciation of Baltimore is "Bawlmer"!! :-)

Dave

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Peter, I've always assumed that, like dog, monkey is a generic term referring to a linkage that goes up and down. Some research shows that, out of a jillion usages, in engineering a monkey is often some subordinate part. Also the business end of a pile driver or a brake that braces against the ties to keep a train from rolling backwards.

But just about any doohickey might have been called a monkey at one time or another. 

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 09-17-2024 07:29
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

Steve,

Since you brought it up, do you (or anyone else) know the legend behind how the SS monkey got it's name?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 09-17-2024 00:11
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

After some fairly thorough searching including German centric sites, I can't find any references to "dag" except for stuff like "dagnabbit". But there are many references to "dog", including in tool catalogues and engineering glossaries. So I'm supposing that it was the German craftsman who misspelled dog into dag. 

So David, it looks like your mind hasn't been lost. 

I asked ChatGPT for other terms that might predate dogs and got quite a list for woodworking, metalworking, and blacksmithing. Including holdfasts, frogs, chocks, bulls, lugs, blocks, and stops. 

In Germany, the term for bench dogs is "Werkzeugstöcke" or sometimes simply "Stöcke". The word "Werkzeugstöcke" translates to "tool blocks" or "tool pegs," and "Stöcke" translates to "stocks" or "pegs." (Per chatGPT)

So, the AI had never heard about a "dag" until I hipped it to the term, but it did know what a Steinway sustaining monkey is, it didn't know its function but it does now. ;-)

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 09-16-2024 20:57
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

I'll comment on the state of David's mind...well, maybe not  😉 

So actually the explanation of "dag" but pronounced as "dog" by a German speaker (to me now) makes the most sense of all. I can see how English speakers would cone away thinking "dog" whereas the German speakers would know exactly what was meant. 

Kind if reminds me of the the old English term "ye" which most of us would pronounce exactly as we see it. However when one learns that the letter "y" was used by printers as a substitute for the "extinct" letter that was actually pronounced as "th" ... thus "ye" means "the" and therefore one who knew would actually say "the" as in "ye old Yankee tavern"..."the old Yankee tavern, etc, etc.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 09-16-2024 14:46
From: William Truitt
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

I stand corrected, David.  Of course, you are right (he says sheepishly).  I've lived in Cow Hampsha for too long.   Miss them Orsters too. 

------------------------------
William Truitt RPT
Bridgewater NH
(603) 744-2277

Original Message:
Sent: 09-16-2024 08:10
From: David Hughes
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

Will Truitt,

Everyone in/from Maryland knows the correct pronunciation of Baltimore is "Bawlmer"!! :-)

Dave

------------------------------
David Hughes RPT
Vintage Case Parts
Glyndon MD
(443) 522-2201

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2024 18:39
From: William Truitt
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, where they would call their canine a doeg.  David is from Balt-more, and I have always likened that accent to "southern bronx".  Perhaps David could enlighten us to how the locals would inflect doeg, which of course is the correct pronunciation.  :-)

------------------------------
William Truitt RPT
Bridgewater NH
(603) 744-2277

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2024 15:29
From: David Hughes
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

Peter,

They are dogs, like the term used in woodworking (i.e. a bench-top hold-down device). For what it's worth, I preach this delineation in my PTG convention classes. I fear it doesn't get through, however.

David G. Hughes, RPT

------------------------------
David Hughes RPT
Vintage Case Parts
Glyndon MD
(443) 522-2201

Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2024 22:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Dag...Dog...Dawg?

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

While there are some insightful takes in this thread regarding the possible etymology of the term we use broadly, the reason a new term emerged may have more to it than a simple spelling error. 

Internal Steinway engineering documents dating back the 1940's make reference to the Keyframe Dag Blocks.

As far as Steinway NY is concerned, the official name for this part is "Keyframe hold-down dag blocks".  Often shortened to "Keyframe dag blocks" or just "dag blocks".

Hamburg calls them "Knaggen-Klaviaturrahmen"

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Daniel,

Thank you for chiming in on dag vs. dog with the "Steinway perspective". Permit me to offer that simply because "dag block" appears in 1940s Steinway documentation, this presence does not confront the word's etymology. I have done a quick investigation of Knaggen-Klaviaturrahmen, the term you put forth. Not much appears, except for drawings and photos of architectural brackets and corbels utilized on the exteriors of ornate European buildings. I lay no claim to understanding the German language, but such gingerbread is a far cry from the keyframe locators and hold-down blocks utilized on grand piano keybeds. Perhaps Steinway's own terminology is a misnomer from the get-go. 

David G. Hughes, RPT

While there are some insightful takes in this thread regarding the possible etymology of the term we use broadly, the reason a new term emerged may have more to it than a simple spelling error. 

Internal Steinway engineering documents dating back the 1940's make reference to the Keyframe Dag Blocks.

As far as Steinway NY is concerned, the official name for this part is "Keyframe hold-down dag blocks".  Often shortened to "Keyframe dag blocks" or just "dag blocks".

Hamburg calls them "Knaggen-Klaviaturrahmen"

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

David,

Thank you for clarifying.  I should have said "may, or may not" have more to it than a simple spelling error. 

The exact explanation for why the new term "Keyframe Dag Block" emerged might be something we will forever have to guess at.  Although you make a very insightful and convincing guess, my personal perspective is that "Dag Block" has been in use for a considerable enough time to earn it's way into our industry vocabulary to become the preferred and recognized term regardless of its potential origins as a misnomer.

Steinway NY will continue to call them Keyframe Hold-Down Dag Blocks

Daniel,

Thank you for chiming in on dag vs. dog with the "Steinway perspective". Permit me to offer that simply because "dag block" appears in 1940s Steinway documentation, this presence does not confront the word's etymology. I have done a quick investigation of Knaggen-Klaviaturrahmen, the term you put forth. Not much appears, except for drawings and photos of architectural brackets and corbels utilized on the exteriors of ornate European buildings. I lay no claim to understanding the German language, but such gingerbread is a far cry from the keyframe locators and hold-down blocks utilized on grand piano keybeds. Perhaps Steinway's own terminology is a misnomer from the get-go. 

David G. Hughes, RPT

While there are some insightful takes in this thread regarding the possible etymology of the term we use broadly, the reason a new term emerged may have more to it than a simple spelling error. 

Internal Steinway engineering documents dating back the 1940's make reference to the Keyframe Dag Blocks.

As far as Steinway NY is concerned, the official name for this part is "Keyframe hold-down dag blocks".  Often shortened to "Keyframe dag blocks" or just "dag blocks".

Hamburg calls them "Knaggen-Klaviaturrahmen"

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Daniel, thanks so much for clarifying this. One question remains. How is it pronounced? Dag as in "day", dag as in "hag", or dag as in "dog"?

Well, two questions, what did they call them prior to the 40's?

David,

Thank you for clarifying.  I should have said "may, or may not" have more to it than a simple spelling error. 

The exact explanation for why the new term "Keyframe Dag Block" emerged might be something we will forever have to guess at.  Although you make a very insightful and convincing guess, my personal perspective is that "Dag Block" has been in use for a considerable enough time to earn it's way into our industry vocabulary to become the preferred and recognized term regardless of its potential origins as a misnomer.

Steinway NY will continue to call them Keyframe Hold-Down Dag Blocks

Daniel,

Thank you for chiming in on dag vs. dog with the "Steinway perspective". Permit me to offer that simply because "dag block" appears in 1940s Steinway documentation, this presence does not confront the word's etymology. I have done a quick investigation of Knaggen-Klaviaturrahmen, the term you put forth. Not much appears, except for drawings and photos of architectural brackets and corbels utilized on the exteriors of ornate European buildings. I lay no claim to understanding the German language, but such gingerbread is a far cry from the keyframe locators and hold-down blocks utilized on grand piano keybeds. Perhaps Steinway's own terminology is a misnomer from the get-go. 

David G. Hughes, RPT

While there are some insightful takes in this thread regarding the possible etymology of the term we use broadly, the reason a new term emerged may have more to it than a simple spelling error. 

Internal Steinway engineering documents dating back the 1940's make reference to the Keyframe Dag Blocks.

As far as Steinway NY is concerned, the official name for this part is "Keyframe hold-down dag blocks".  Often shortened to "Keyframe dag blocks" or just "dag blocks".

Hamburg calls them "Knaggen-Klaviaturrahmen"

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Daniel, thanks so much for clarifying this. One question remains. How is it pronounced? Dag as in "day", dag as in "hag", or dag as in "dog"?

Well, two questions, what did they call them prior to the 40's?

David,

Thank you for clarifying.  I should have said "may, or may not" have more to it than a simple spelling error. 

The exact explanation for why the new term "Keyframe Dag Block" emerged might be something we will forever have to guess at.  Although you make a very insightful and convincing guess, my personal perspective is that "Dag Block" has been in use for a considerable enough time to earn it's way into our industry vocabulary to become the preferred and recognized term regardless of its potential origins as a misnomer.

Steinway NY will continue to call them Keyframe Hold-Down Dag Blocks

Daniel,

Thank you for chiming in on dag vs. dog with the "Steinway perspective". Permit me to offer that simply because "dag block" appears in 1940s Steinway documentation, this presence does not confront the word's etymology. I have done a quick investigation of Knaggen-Klaviaturrahmen, the term you put forth. Not much appears, except for drawings and photos of architectural brackets and corbels utilized on the exteriors of ornate European buildings. I lay no claim to understanding the German language, but such gingerbread is a far cry from the keyframe locators and hold-down blocks utilized on grand piano keybeds. Perhaps Steinway's own terminology is a misnomer from the get-go. 

David G. Hughes, RPT

While there are some insightful takes in this thread regarding the possible etymology of the term we use broadly, the reason a new term emerged may have more to it than a simple spelling error. 

Internal Steinway engineering documents dating back the 1940's make reference to the Keyframe Dag Blocks.

As far as Steinway NY is concerned, the official name for this part is "Keyframe hold-down dag blocks".  Often shortened to "Keyframe dag blocks" or just "dag blocks".

Hamburg calls them "Knaggen-Klaviaturrahmen"

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Hi Steven,

The oldest documents I have access to date back to the 40's so I offered that date as evidence that the term has been in use for over 75 years.  If someone wanted to find something older, they might have to schedule a trip to NY and plan a visit to the LaGuardia & Wagner Archives https://www.laguardiawagnerarchive.lagcc.cuny.edu/

Most people I talk to pronounce it just how it is spelled.  Similar to "Hag" as you suggest.

While David Hughes makes a compelling argument that "dag block" might be a misnomer, it is possible that the term "keyframe dag block" comes from Deflocculated Acheson Graphite, or "DAG" (No. 461 in the Schaff Catalog). A brand name for a graphite lubricant developed by Edward Goodrich Acheson

This could be proven false if someone can find reference to a "Keyframe Dag Block" prior to the AquaDAG patent in 1907. https://patents.google.com/patent/US844989A/en

Still a mystery, but as far as I am concerned they will always be "Dag Blocks"

Daniel, thanks so much for clarifying this. One question remains. How is it pronounced? Dag as in "day", dag as in "hag", or dag as in "dog"?

Well, two questions, what did they call them prior to the 40's?

David,

Thank you for clarifying.  I should have said "may, or may not" have more to it than a simple spelling error. 

The exact explanation for why the new term "Keyframe Dag Block" emerged might be something we will forever have to guess at.  Although you make a very insightful and convincing guess, my personal perspective is that "Dag Block" has been in use for a considerable enough time to earn it's way into our industry vocabulary to become the preferred and recognized term regardless of its potential origins as a misnomer.

Steinway NY will continue to call them Keyframe Hold-Down Dag Blocks

Daniel,

Thank you for chiming in on dag vs. dog with the "Steinway perspective". Permit me to offer that simply because "dag block" appears in 1940s Steinway documentation, this presence does not confront the word's etymology. I have done a quick investigation of Knaggen-Klaviaturrahmen, the term you put forth. Not much appears, except for drawings and photos of architectural brackets and corbels utilized on the exteriors of ornate European buildings. I lay no claim to understanding the German language, but such gingerbread is a far cry from the keyframe locators and hold-down blocks utilized on grand piano keybeds. Perhaps Steinway's own terminology is a misnomer from the get-go. 

David G. Hughes, RPT

While there are some insightful takes in this thread regarding the possible etymology of the term we use broadly, the reason a new term emerged may have more to it than a simple spelling error. 

Internal Steinway engineering documents dating back the 1940's make reference to the Keyframe Dag Blocks.

As far as Steinway NY is concerned, the official name for this part is "Keyframe hold-down dag blocks".  Often shortened to "Keyframe dag blocks" or just "dag blocks".

Hamburg calls them "Knaggen-Klaviaturrahmen"

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

The subject of the little thingamajig in the back of the action cavity came up recently. Who knows the official name of this thing?  Is it "dag", or "dog" or "dawg"? AND what is it's "official" design purpose? Is it to literally hold down the back of the action during operation, or is it to simply keep the action from flopping around during a move? Or something else?

Who knows for sure? Anyone?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor