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Neupert Grand Stringing Scale

  • 1.  Neupert Grand Stringing Scale

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-03-2023 06:27
    First time posting - just recently started getting the daily digest and I appreciate the resource of community and expertise/experience. I am totally rebuilding a 6ft 5in Neupert Grand manufactured in 1910. This piano belongs to me. I bought it 25 years ago. I am working on NOT leaving a bunch of pianos to my heirs ; ). When Clair Davies retired from piano work, I was an underling who bought his shop equipment and supplies. Wish I still had his brain to pick.

    I do not trust the stringing scale found from the 1972 rebuild with oversize tuning pins. It failed miserably. I suspect the pins started failing not long after the work was done. I bought it for $100 after the owner got the same expensive answer from three different rebuilders over a period of a couple decades.

    So does anyone know where I might find a good stringing scale for this piano? Nothing in Travis. I wrote Neupert several weeks ago and haven’t heard back. They don’t manufacture pianos anymore, only harpsichords. I am hoping that maybe one of you might have another idea of how to proceed. Maybe there is a German piano technician forum? Would scale design expert be able to help on this?

    I have just finished installing the pin block - not doweled in the sides but it was buried by two big case arms glued and screwed into rim. Complicated multi level replication. Open face. There seemed to be three layers of material in the original block. I have married a piece of Delignit with a piece of red oak to get the original thickness of block. Finally a good fit to plate and to case. Everything is back in place. I’m ready for the soundboard. There are over a hundred screws in the ribs by the previous rebuilder but thankfully it is the original board&bridge assembly. I expect to find more quirky but good German engineering.

    Ben Griffith, RPT
    Frankfort, KY


  • 2.  RE: Neupert Grand Stringing Scale

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-03-2023 08:28

    Ben,

    First step is to measure all the spesking lengths and record them. Numerous people on this list are familiar with scaling and may assist you. Otherwise handing it over to someone like James Arledge and paying him to create a good scale (including bass strings) could be a good solution. 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 3.  RE: Neupert Grand Stringing Scale

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-04-2023 08:30

    James Arledge both rescaled and made my bass strings on my rebuilding project, and I'm very happy with the result!  FYI, he sells a string measuring kit with a speciality tape measure for getting the speaking lengths. I think the kit is $20 and makes the job a whole lot easier. Good luck!



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    Tim Foster
    New Oxford PA
    (470) 231-6074
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  • 4.  RE: Neupert Grand Stringing Scale

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-04-2023 22:45
    Hi Benjamin, 
    I went to Newport's site and like you said they build and restore mostly early keyboard instruments.  Have you thought about how someone might have done the previous restoration. On the grand?  Is it possible that someone drove the oversized tuning pins in without supporting the pin block.  This beats the laminates apart.  In fact if the key bed isn't supported it can also spread the back belly open.  

    There is also the possibility of getting a supply of wire that is not sized properly so you are right about the scaling.  I think you might want to measure the speaking lengths of the plain wire and how many unisons in a section and maybe someone can help you.  Besides the one string maker you were given.  What was the bass section like before you removed the wires?  Do you trust what they had done? Up to pitch the ends of the copper should be 3/4" or less from the hitch pin and agraffs.  It is a good idea when dismantling to have the instrument at pitch remove the bass dampers and make a rubbing and give good measurements of the section ends.  

    If you followed the Travis book you probably know this.  I hope someone out there can help you more.  Maybe someone from here 
    Good luck
    --
    Sent from Gmail Mobile





  • 5.  RE: Neupert Grand Stringing Scale

    Posted 05-05-2023 08:26

    It is hard to give good advice when we know so little about the instrument. Pictures might help.
    Anne Acker is a technician/harpsichord and pianoforte builder who deals in late 19th century pianos.
    She may know something about Neupert pianos.
    <pianogrands.com>



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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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  • 6.  RE: Neupert Grand Stringing Scale

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-05-2023 14:21

    Hi Ben!
    You might find some ideas in this thread that's been hanging out on a tab in my browser.
    https://my.ptg.org/discussion/scale-ripper?ReturnUrl=%2fcommunities%2fcommunity-home%2fdigestviewer%3fcommunitykey%3d6265a40b-9fd2-4152-a628-bd7c7d770cbf

    I think I was one of those 3 technicians with the bad news. I'm really glad the Neupert will sing again



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    John Pope
    University of Kentucky School of Music
    Lexington, KY
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  • 7.  RE: Neupert Grand Stringing Scale

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-06-2023 06:38

    Thank you all for input so far.  I will ultimately probably consult with James Arledge if nothing comes forward before then. I will just continue to try to replicate what the manufacturer did with the original belly work.  This piano has 26 bass notes, 1-13 singles.  Note 27 through 88 are three string unisons with hitch pins for every string.  Looking forward to all those loops!  The previous rebuild gave up on that! (See attached pics)  I am proceeding to replace board assembly, refinish plate, and case refinishing work so I am many months away from stringing.  

    I am trying to attach pics of existing block, new block, bass end existing plate/stringing, picture of existing hitch pin looping but my files aren't uploading for some reason.  I am attaching one picture taken from JC Neupert website - a very similar piano (including similar cool hardware) but is much smaller 5'9".  It's Derby day and there's a new King of England.  Must be moving along.  



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    Benjamin Griffith RPT
    Frankfort KY
    (502) 330-4989
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  • 8.  RE: Neupert Grand Stringing Scale

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-06-2023 06:45

    Converted files to pdf!  Now it works.



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    Benjamin Griffith RPT
    Frankfort KY
    (502) 330-4989
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    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    stringing 5 copy.pdf   20.01 MB 1 version
    pdf
    exisiting block 3 copy.pdf   14.69 MB 1 version
    pdf
    plate location 2 copy.pdf   16.03 MB 1 version
    pdf
    new block fitting 3 copy.pdf   15.71 MB 1 version


  • 9.  RE: Neupert Grand Stringing Scale

    Posted 05-06-2023 07:49

    Those are not original bass strings.
    You might research and consider Paulello wire rescale.



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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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  • 10.  RE: Neupert Grand Stringing Scale

    Posted 05-07-2023 16:59

    Benjamin, You might be interested in having a look at Gavin Crooks' recent post of April 20 on piano scales on the Piano Technician International listserv on Facebook. Has a good summary of where to find the best current information on the topic.  Regards, Norman 



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    Norman Brickman
    Potomac Piano Service
    Potomac, Maryland
    potomacpiano@verizon.net
    https://potomacpiano.com
    (301) 983.9321
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