Hi Adam, glad you made these observations. I have been threatened with a lawsuit. I think there are others who are afraid of also making critiques. In time I believe more people will be less afraid and also share similar stories. Ron Koval shared similar observations as mine when he initially used the device. You can find his review at the pianoworld.com technician forum.
I thought of cut and pasting other reviews to counter the solicited positive reviews, but I have better things to do. In Yelp and other online review sites there are highly effective algorithms to protect the public from companies soliciting positive reviews.
I believe there is a honeymooon period with the sensor and it is highly likely these people above might have new opinions of the practicality and usefulness of the sensor after some use.
Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2024 22:10
From: Adam Schulte-Bukowinski
Subject: Pianosens review
It seems odd to me that, despite the numerous and widely repeated positive reviews for PianoSens that have been spread on this forum, this thread is not allowed to stand on its own and has instead been turned into "discredit Tim's experience," despite the thread being started by Tim and despite no invitation from Tim to open this up to other reviews.
------------------------------
Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
Great Plains Piano Company
www.greatplainspiano.com
Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2024 11:12
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Pianosens review
Hi Joshua:
Your questions should be asked directly to Randall (I assume that's who you're asking). He's not on the Electronic Tuning forum discussion group. The quote above was not made on this forum. You'll need to find his name and contact him directly.
------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com
Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2024 09:39
From: Joshua Martell
Subject: Pianosens review
Few questions...
You tuned unisons electronically?
Did you use the sensor for inharmonicity measurement?
Did you use the same measurements to tune both pianos or did you remeasure?
How long did the whole process take you?
Is there some aspect of the stability you attribute to the etd/sensor? I would expect that to be hammer technique only.
Joshua
Pronouns: he/him/his
Original Message:
Sent: 8/28/2024 11:30:00 AM
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: RE: Pianosens review
I am posting excerpts of another post which was removed. I appreciate Tim's honest review, and there are others who have also reviewed the sensor, which I am posting here.
"Randall Woltz of Los Angeles....
-------------
Yesterday I did the ultimate test of a concert tuner. I had to tune a 9' Bosendorfer and a 7' Grotrian Steinweg for a concert. They were on opposite ends of the stage.When I got there, someone was practicing on the organ and tuning it. Later a cleaning woman started vacuuming the carpets! Lots of talking around me and people setting up. Normally I would insist on quiet but I have my SECRET WEAPON! With PianoScope
and PianoSens I tuned both pianos as carefully as I could (either .0 or .01) None of the noise around me had any effect. I went to the concert today. One of the pianists really hit the Bosendorfer as hard as he could. I thought the hammer shanks would break. Not only were both pianos rock solid but when they were played together it sounded like one piano. Not one unison slipped despite all the pounding. And I tuned them in a very difficult situation that would be normally impossible.
For a concert tuner in a real life situation, this is MY SECRET WEAPON. I think it was the best concert tuning I ever did.
I sent you one of the videos. We should play this on a loop at the convention on an ipad.
--Randy"
"Approximately 40 years ago, I remember being quite proud of having successfully passed the examination given by the PTG qualifying myself as an RPT. Fast
forward to today and looking back over my career, I have been fortunate to have achieved so much. I have tuned pianos for highly acclaimed concert pianists and multi grammy award winning jazz pianists.
Although my tuning skill was consistently praised and appreciated by advanced pianists, I never lost the desire to do better. Now, thanks to the reach and power of the internet, I found Steven Norsworthy. His combination of pianist skills and acoustic engineering background is so rare. I was intrigued by his desire for better tuning.
Upon consultation with Mr. Norsworthy, I acquired his PianoSens device and have been using it ever since. I find with the use of PianoSens, I can achieve even finer tuning accuracy. The higher quality of my tuning has increased my enjoyment of my own musical skills. And I am certain that my many customers will also. If you are serious about advancing your tuning skill level, you would be well advised to acquire the PianoSens device and readily accept the consultation and support by one of the most unique individuals in the sphere of piano tuning technology." This letter was sent by Roger Shaffer, unsolicited, to Steven Norsworthy.
This is from Peter Grey:
Your
contribution to the world of piano technology...specifically I'm referring to the combination of the Pianosense sensor AND the "freeze frame" feature (currently incorporated into the Pianoscope program) has been instrumental (pun intended) in "raising the bar" of tuning accuracy, both in the area of ETD usage in general and specifically unison tuning to the closest tolerance possible. I personally consider this to be a significant upgrade in our trade.
It has of course sparked considerable discussion on the subject of unison tuning (and more). The debate about exactly what constitutes the "perfect" unison goes back MANY years with those who espouse tuning unisons as close as possible to 'zero' (or as close as they can actually achieve) and those who feel that slightly altering the string pitches to achieve other characteristics while still preserving a beatless unison (the "spread" camp).
Your experience in the field of expertise as well as your very fine musical ear has brought about a means to actually achieve a .1cent tolerance (measurable and provable). Just last night a group of us techs joined you in an online discussion that hashed this out quite well I think. We all agreed (AIR) that there is room for both super tight unisons (using the new tech) as well as spread unisons (beatless still of course) with Kent Swafford essentially giving the opinion that the tighter the better being a starting point, and if there seemed to be a "need" to adjust it from there, then do so.
The sensor really is a fabulous tool in this regard as it really helps focus with less "noise". Personally I have found improvement using the sensor even without the freeze frame feature using different programs, and even using headphones with it. So I applaud you and these contributions to our trade. I hope that more will come to see the importance of these improvements in time. As with most things that are "new and different" it takes a while to catch on. Those of us who are using these are already finding interesting adaptations to make it even better, some of which we shared last night.
Anyway I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for your persistence in these endeavors despite some resistance you have encountered. That seems to be natural in this group (piano technicians).
Peter Grey Piano Doctor"
From Mark Larin:
I've been using it for a few months and can affirm that I'm often now playing within a plus or minus 0.1 cent range. It reduces the 'jitter' of the device's display and numeric readings while increasing accuracy. It allows the app displays to often
be as steady in the high treble as in tenor regions. Nothing is perfect though, for the most part, my use of the existing tuning apps that I employ are improved/enhanced: Verituner, Pianoscope and TuneLab. I just used it on a previously stored Verituner file for an international touring trio and reviewed the tuning with the pianist, who loved it. It's introduced me to new wine so my standards have risen higher yet again. The results of using it have sold me on it and, yes, if I lost it I would buy another. I know that I can get a little more improvement on the piano mentioned above by recreating another tuning file with this device taking samples, and I'm going to do that on Monday. I sat in on a three hour presentation and conversation of this device before buying and, when I saw some of the science behind it, ordered one directly. I buy a lot of piano tools etc and have a few regrets, though not many. I have absolutely no regrets on this one. Look past the Facebook noise to the product itself. (That's my 2 cents.)"
I have my own experiences with the sensor and using Pianoscope, which is exactly in agreement with the above comments. I hope that readers of this thread will make up their own mind, and decide for themselves whether it might be useful in their situation.
------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com
Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2024 11:55
From: Timothy Michaels
Subject: Pianosens review
For a while I thought the sensor was great but over time I realized it was more of a burden and provided little to no extra value to my tunings. Tuning every string to the freeze frame with the sensor I received occasional complaints from clients (one was a Grammy award winning household name) and had to redo tunings by tuning unisons aurally to make them happy. I believed at the time these clients were ignorant, but after time it set in that I might be wrong. Most improvements while using the sensor I eventually realized resulted from changing my tuning techniques and switching software. I think in my case I wanted it to work and was blinded for a while. The sensor was a time burden (especially on uprights) and once I took a break from it after 100 tunings I realized I didn't need it and my life was better without it. I haven't touched it in several months now.
I've tuned many many times without the sensor in noisy environments. And if it's really that noisy I'd rather just come back another time or ask if people can be quiet while I tune rather than fiddling with the sensor. If not, I can always pop out a tuning one way another in a very noisy environment.
I was going to sell the sensor but realized it would be unethical to do so based on my experience with it.
This is a truthful and honest review and I hope it doesn't get flagged.
------------------------------
Tim Michaels
pianotechtim@gmail.com
------------------------------