Pianotech

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

Pipe length about 24" should work but it depends on how big the clamp is and the clearances you will need for the clamps. I measured my Yamaha G2 lyre from the bottom of the pedal box to the top of the lyre mounting block. Using then iron pipe clamp as a spreader will require sliding the clamp down the pipe with the jaws facing out. You need to be careful where you clamp and to make sure the wood/finish is protected from the jaws especially on a polyester finish. I have a number of bar clamps made by Stanley and Wagner that can be used as spreaders. The jaws are soft and it is easy to squeeze the handle to spread or clamp. Two of these would do the job easily 

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

Scott, I found a short, hydraulic bottle jack works best.
David G. Hughes, RPT

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

I have some Jorgensen "EZ Hold II" bar clamps that reverse like that as needed, and have large padded jaws that do not mar things up. Not as powerful as a bottle jack, but all you need is assistance as you tap things apart. 

Don't forget to cut out the wedges first. That will help you quite a bit.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

I have some Jorgensen "EZ Hold II" bar clamps that reverse like that as needed, and have large padded jaws that do not mar things up. Not as powerful as a bottle jack, but all you need is assistance as you tap things apart.

Don't forget to cut out the wedges first. That will help you quite a bit.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

Joe,
The wedges can be partially removed by drilling them. You use an appropriate sized bit (a little less than the width of the wedge) and drill downward, not too far, all the way across the wedge. Then you can change to a smaller sized bit and drill somewhat deeper, to accommodate the tapering V slot. This can give some freedom to loosen the wedges in the lyre columns' tenons. In most cases the V slot that is cut in the lyre columns' tenons will have to be enlarged a tad anyway, so if the drilling has cause some enlarging of these slots you're still okay. Of course, new wider wedges will have to be fabricated and installed when eveything is glued together. Always let the new wedges run wild above the top block surface, and then mill them flush with a router. The wedges within the pedal box can typically be left a little long without interfering with pedal throw.
David G. Hughes, RPT
Baltimore Chapter

I have some Jorgensen "EZ Hold II" bar clamps that reverse like that as needed, and have large padded jaws that do not mar things up. Not as powerful as a bottle jack, but all you need is assistance as you tap things apart.

Don't forget to cut out the wedges first. That will help you quite a bit.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

In addition to David's advice, I use a moto tool with a small carbide bit to chew away at the remaining stock of the wedge after drilling. I will try to go as deep as possible. Does not take very long. When it's all out and apart I clean up whatever remains of the wedge and file the sides of the cutouts pretty smooth and straight. Cut new wedges on the band saw...fit them using the belt sander...re-assemble...done.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Joe,
The wedges can be partially removed by drilling them. You use an appropriate sized bit (a little less than the width of the wedge) and drill downward, not too far, all the way across the wedge. Then you can change to a smaller sized bit and drill somewhat deeper, to accommodate the tapering V slot. This can give some freedom to loosen the wedges in the lyre columns' tenons. In most cases the V slot that is cut in the lyre columns' tenons will have to be enlarged a tad anyway, so if the drilling has cause some enlarging of these slots you're still okay. Of course, new wider wedges will have to be fabricated and installed when eveything is glued together. Always let the new wedges run wild above the top block surface, and then mill them flush with a router. The wedges within the pedal box can typically be left a little long without interfering with pedal throw.
David G. Hughes, RPT
Baltimore Chapter

I have some Jorgensen "EZ Hold II" bar clamps that reverse like that as needed, and have large padded jaws that do not mar things up. Not as powerful as a bottle jack, but all you need is assistance as you tap things apart.

Don't forget to cut out the wedges first. That will help you quite a bit.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

In addition to David's advice, I use a moto tool with a small carbide bit to chew away at the remaining stock of the wedge after drilling. I will try to go as deep as possible. Does not take very long. When it's all out and apart I clean up whatever remains of the wedge and file the sides of the cutouts pretty smooth and straight. Cut new wedges on the band saw...fit them using the belt sander...re-assemble...done.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Joe,
The wedges can be partially removed by drilling them. You use an appropriate sized bit (a little less than the width of the wedge) and drill downward, not too far, all the way across the wedge. Then you can change to a smaller sized bit and drill somewhat deeper, to accommodate the tapering V slot. This can give some freedom to loosen the wedges in the lyre columns' tenons. In most cases the V slot that is cut in the lyre columns' tenons will have to be enlarged a tad anyway, so if the drilling has cause some enlarging of these slots you're still okay. Of course, new wider wedges will have to be fabricated and installed when eveything is glued together. Always let the new wedges run wild above the top block surface, and then mill them flush with a router. The wedges within the pedal box can typically be left a little long without interfering with pedal throw.
David G. Hughes, RPT
Baltimore Chapter

I have some Jorgensen "EZ Hold II" bar clamps that reverse like that as needed, and have large padded jaws that do not mar things up. Not as powerful as a bottle jack, but all you need is assistance as you tap things apart.

Don't forget to cut out the wedges first. That will help you quite a bit.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

A few weeks ago I pressed out lyre columns with regular clamps.
I cut cubes of wood just smaller than the tenons, and placed them on the tenons.   A piece of 2 x 4 goes over top of that. Now, clamps can be applied to press the tenons out of the pedal box or the lyre capital. Use cauls to protect the piano parts, of course.
 Removal of the wedges beforehand with drills and chisels is critical.

In addition to David's advice, I use a moto tool with a small carbide bit to chew away at the remaining stock of the wedge after drilling. I will try to go as deep as possible. Does not take very long. When it's all out and apart I clean up whatever remains of the wedge and file the sides of the cutouts pretty smooth and straight. Cut new wedges on the band saw...fit them using the belt sander...re-assemble...done.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Joe,
The wedges can be partially removed by drilling them. You use an appropriate sized bit (a little less than the width of the wedge) and drill downward, not too far, all the way across the wedge. Then you can change to a smaller sized bit and drill somewhat deeper, to accommodate the tapering V slot. This can give some freedom to loosen the wedges in the lyre columns' tenons. In most cases the V slot that is cut in the lyre columns' tenons will have to be enlarged a tad anyway, so if the drilling has cause some enlarging of these slots you're still okay. Of course, new wider wedges will have to be fabricated and installed when eveything is glued together. Always let the new wedges run wild above the top block surface, and then mill them flush with a router. The wedges within the pedal box can typically be left a little long without interfering with pedal throw.
David G. Hughes, RPT
Baltimore Chapter

I have some Jorgensen "EZ Hold II" bar clamps that reverse like that as needed, and have large padded jaws that do not mar things up. Not as powerful as a bottle jack, but all you need is assistance as you tap things apart.

Don't forget to cut out the wedges first. That will help you quite a bit.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

A few weeks ago I pressed out lyre columns with regular clamps.
I cut cubes of wood just smaller than the tenons, and placed them on the tenons.   A piece of 2 x 4 goes over top of that. Now, clamps can be applied to press the tenons out of the pedal box or the lyre capital. Use cauls to protect the piano parts, of course.
 Removal of the wedges beforehand with drills and chisels is critical.

In addition to David's advice, I use a moto tool with a small carbide bit to chew away at the remaining stock of the wedge after drilling. I will try to go as deep as possible. Does not take very long. When it's all out and apart I clean up whatever remains of the wedge and file the sides of the cutouts pretty smooth and straight. Cut new wedges on the band saw...fit them using the belt sander...re-assemble...done.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Joe,
The wedges can be partially removed by drilling them. You use an appropriate sized bit (a little less than the width of the wedge) and drill downward, not too far, all the way across the wedge. Then you can change to a smaller sized bit and drill somewhat deeper, to accommodate the tapering V slot. This can give some freedom to loosen the wedges in the lyre columns' tenons. In most cases the V slot that is cut in the lyre columns' tenons will have to be enlarged a tad anyway, so if the drilling has cause some enlarging of these slots you're still okay. Of course, new wider wedges will have to be fabricated and installed when eveything is glued together. Always let the new wedges run wild above the top block surface, and then mill them flush with a router. The wedges within the pedal box can typically be left a little long without interfering with pedal throw.
David G. Hughes, RPT
Baltimore Chapter

I have some Jorgensen "EZ Hold II" bar clamps that reverse like that as needed, and have large padded jaws that do not mar things up. Not as powerful as a bottle jack, but all you need is assistance as you tap things apart.

Don't forget to cut out the wedges first. That will help you quite a bit.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

Joe,
If the joint(s) have the least amount of wiggle you should not need any sort of glue solvent to get the joint apart mechanically. If there is no wiggle the joint is probably okay and should not need prying apart and repairing.
Most of the lyres I took apart for regluing could be knocked apart with a rubber hammer. I did not need to resort to the bottle jack often.
If there's movement, the joint(s) will come apart with patience, persistence, and the not-so-gentle persuasion of a rubber hammer.
Be aware that Asian lyre joints are more difficult to separtate than American lyre joints, because the tenons are tapered and square. You really need to remove the wedges in these lyres before you can knock them apart. American tenons are typically cylindrical and easier to get apart. Charge twice as much to disassemble and reglue an Asian lyre vs. a Steinway lyre (as one example).
David G. Hughes, RPT
Baltimore Chapter

A few weeks ago I pressed out lyre columns with regular clamps.
I cut cubes of wood just smaller than the tenons, and placed them on the tenons.   A piece of 2 x 4 goes over top of that. Now, clamps can be applied to press the tenons out of the pedal box or the lyre capital. Use cauls to protect the piano parts, of course.
 Removal of the wedges beforehand with drills and chisels is critical.

In addition to David's advice, I use a moto tool with a small carbide bit to chew away at the remaining stock of the wedge after drilling. I will try to go as deep as possible. Does not take very long. When it's all out and apart I clean up whatever remains of the wedge and file the sides of the cutouts pretty smooth and straight. Cut new wedges on the band saw...fit them using the belt sander...re-assemble...done.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Joe,
The wedges can be partially removed by drilling them. You use an appropriate sized bit (a little less than the width of the wedge) and drill downward, not too far, all the way across the wedge. Then you can change to a smaller sized bit and drill somewhat deeper, to accommodate the tapering V slot. This can give some freedom to loosen the wedges in the lyre columns' tenons. In most cases the V slot that is cut in the lyre columns' tenons will have to be enlarged a tad anyway, so if the drilling has cause some enlarging of these slots you're still okay. Of course, new wider wedges will have to be fabricated and installed when eveything is glued together. Always let the new wedges run wild above the top block surface, and then mill them flush with a router. The wedges within the pedal box can typically be left a little long without interfering with pedal throw.
David G. Hughes, RPT
Baltimore Chapter

I have some Jorgensen "EZ Hold II" bar clamps that reverse like that as needed, and have large padded jaws that do not mar things up. Not as powerful as a bottle jack, but all you need is assistance as you tap things apart.

Don't forget to cut out the wedges first. That will help you quite a bit.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

Thanks everyone for many helpful tips! If there isn't a class on lyres/pedals this year, hopefully someone can do one next year in Reno?

On a similar subject: I just serviced two older S&S lyres/pedals. On one, I used the newer Steinway plastic bushings, and on the other I used new felt. Actually, I might have used the plastic on one, but I couldn't get the bushings onto the axle. Any preferences on either one?
I'm guessing most of you will go with felt...

Also, one of the above had leather washers, the other rebuilt at some point with felt balance rail punchings. I used leather in both. Standard practice?

Finally, I was advised by Mike Reiter to dispense with the new felt blocks Steinway uses under the pedals; I made my own ravioli for both, which really wasn't very difficult. (Steinway no longer sells the ravioli.)

Joe,
If the joint(s) have the least amount of wiggle you should not need any sort of glue solvent to get the joint apart mechanically. If there is no wiggle the joint is probably okay and should not need prying apart and repairing.
Most of the lyres I took apart for regluing could be knocked apart with a rubber hammer. I did not need to resort to the bottle jack often.
If there's movement, the joint(s) will come apart with patience, persistence, and the not-so-gentle persuasion of a rubber hammer.
Be aware that Asian lyre joints are more difficult to separtate than American lyre joints, because the tenons are tapered and square. You really need to remove the wedges in these lyres before you can knock them apart. American tenons are typically cylindrical and easier to get apart. Charge twice as much to disassemble and reglue an Asian lyre vs. a Steinway lyre (as one example).
David G. Hughes, RPT
Baltimore Chapter

A few weeks ago I pressed out lyre columns with regular clamps.
I cut cubes of wood just smaller than the tenons, and placed them on the tenons.   A piece of 2 x 4 goes over top of that. Now, clamps can be applied to press the tenons out of the pedal box or the lyre capital. Use cauls to protect the piano parts, of course.
 Removal of the wedges beforehand with drills and chisels is critical.

In addition to David's advice, I use a moto tool with a small carbide bit to chew away at the remaining stock of the wedge after drilling. I will try to go as deep as possible. Does not take very long. When it's all out and apart I clean up whatever remains of the wedge and file the sides of the cutouts pretty smooth and straight. Cut new wedges on the band saw...fit them using the belt sander...re-assemble...done.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Joe,
The wedges can be partially removed by drilling them. You use an appropriate sized bit (a little less than the width of the wedge) and drill downward, not too far, all the way across the wedge. Then you can change to a smaller sized bit and drill somewhat deeper, to accommodate the tapering V slot. This can give some freedom to loosen the wedges in the lyre columns' tenons. In most cases the V slot that is cut in the lyre columns' tenons will have to be enlarged a tad anyway, so if the drilling has cause some enlarging of these slots you're still okay. Of course, new wider wedges will have to be fabricated and installed when eveything is glued together. Always let the new wedges run wild above the top block surface, and then mill them flush with a router. The wedges within the pedal box can typically be left a little long without interfering with pedal throw.
David G. Hughes, RPT
Baltimore Chapter

I have some Jorgensen "EZ Hold II" bar clamps that reverse like that as needed, and have large padded jaws that do not mar things up. Not as powerful as a bottle jack, but all you need is assistance as you tap things apart.

Don't forget to cut out the wedges first. That will help you quite a bit.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.

Thanks everyone for many helpful tips! If there isn't a class on lyres/pedals this year, hopefully someone can do one next year in Reno?

On a similar subject: I just serviced two older S&S lyres/pedals. On one, I used the newer Steinway plastic bushings, and on the other I used new felt. Actually, I might have used the plastic on one, but I couldn't get the bushings onto the axle. Any preferences on either one?
I'm guessing most of you will go with felt...

Also, one of the above had leather washers, the other rebuilt at some point with felt balance rail punchings. I used leather in both. Standard practice?

Finally, I was advised by Mike Reiter to dispense with the new felt blocks Steinway uses under the pedals; I made my own ravioli for both, which really wasn't very difficult. (Steinway no longer sells the ravioli.)

Joe,
If the joint(s) have the least amount of wiggle you should not need any sort of glue solvent to get the joint apart mechanically. If there is no wiggle the joint is probably okay and should not need prying apart and repairing.
Most of the lyres I took apart for regluing could be knocked apart with a rubber hammer. I did not need to resort to the bottle jack often.
If there's movement, the joint(s) will come apart with patience, persistence, and the not-so-gentle persuasion of a rubber hammer.
Be aware that Asian lyre joints are more difficult to separtate than American lyre joints, because the tenons are tapered and square. You really need to remove the wedges in these lyres before you can knock them apart. American tenons are typically cylindrical and easier to get apart. Charge twice as much to disassemble and reglue an Asian lyre vs. a Steinway lyre (as one example).
David G. Hughes, RPT
Baltimore Chapter

A few weeks ago I pressed out lyre columns with regular clamps.
I cut cubes of wood just smaller than the tenons, and placed them on the tenons.   A piece of 2 x 4 goes over top of that. Now, clamps can be applied to press the tenons out of the pedal box or the lyre capital. Use cauls to protect the piano parts, of course.
 Removal of the wedges beforehand with drills and chisels is critical.

In addition to David's advice, I use a moto tool with a small carbide bit to chew away at the remaining stock of the wedge after drilling. I will try to go as deep as possible. Does not take very long. When it's all out and apart I clean up whatever remains of the wedge and file the sides of the cutouts pretty smooth and straight. Cut new wedges on the band saw...fit them using the belt sander...re-assemble...done.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Joe,
The wedges can be partially removed by drilling them. You use an appropriate sized bit (a little less than the width of the wedge) and drill downward, not too far, all the way across the wedge. Then you can change to a smaller sized bit and drill somewhat deeper, to accommodate the tapering V slot. This can give some freedom to loosen the wedges in the lyre columns' tenons. In most cases the V slot that is cut in the lyre columns' tenons will have to be enlarged a tad anyway, so if the drilling has cause some enlarging of these slots you're still okay. Of course, new wider wedges will have to be fabricated and installed when eveything is glued together. Always let the new wedges run wild above the top block surface, and then mill them flush with a router. The wedges within the pedal box can typically be left a little long without interfering with pedal throw.
David G. Hughes, RPT
Baltimore Chapter

I have some Jorgensen "EZ Hold II" bar clamps that reverse like that as needed, and have large padded jaws that do not mar things up. Not as powerful as a bottle jack, but all you need is assistance as you tap things apart.

Don't forget to cut out the wedges first. That will help you quite a bit.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I've heard about using a reverse-mounted pipe clamp to get grand lyres apart for repair. I picked up a clamp for 3/4" pipe--can anyone recommend a good pipe length that will work with most lyres? I'm not afraid to go a little short and use wood blocks if needed.