I thought I recognized the English language essay on Scheibler's work you showed in the original post, but I had it catalogued under Johann Joseph Loehr. It can be had on Google Books. Search "An Essay on the theory and practice of tuning Loehr".
For a number of other tuning sources look at
https://ptgfoundation.org/resources/tuning-repair-manuals/. There are links to pdfs of many of the sources described. A project I got started on, but was superseded by other more pressing projects. I do have a large collection of pdfs of this sort of material. If you see a reference to a pre-20th century tuning book and can't find it, ask me.
Original Message:
Sent: 9/5/2024 10:33:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: RE: Tuning by eye- in 1853!
Thanks, Fred, received! Using it to tune the organ definitely could make sense, the 1853 translation's title page says "Tuning Pianofortes and Organs by the Metronome." I'm assuming by the 1850s the use of these forks did not sound great on the piano, especially as it got higher. A very interesting piece of history for sure.
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Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-05-2024 22:03
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: Tuning by eye- in 1853!
Tim,
Scheibler aimed his method at the organ, which has endlessly sustained notes, hence is easy to count beats with precision over several seconds. He used a metronome, whose pendulum could be watched. It's in Gothic print, and is filled with math and tables.
I sent you a dropbox link to your email.
Regards,
Fred Sturm
"A mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled." Plutarch
Original Message:
Sent: 9/5/2024 8:33:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: RE: Tuning by eye- in 1853!
Thanks Fred, I would be interested in the file.
It seems like this could have been a useful method for precise ET with early instruments with very little inharmonicity and a stronger fundamental (on pianofortes in particular, not harpsichords so much), but it's interesting that this method turns up right as pianos are beginning to be strung with more tension. I'm sure by the 1840s and 50s pianos tuned this way just wouldn't sound very good.
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Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
Original Message:
Sent: 09-05-2024 18:54
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: Tuning by eye- in 1853!
I have a pdf of Scheibler's book (1838) that I got from a German library, if anyone is interested. It's a big file 18MB (saving as reduced file in Acrobat didn't reduce the size), but I could give you a dropbox link. I doubt it had much of a significant impact on the tuning trade :-)
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Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2024 06:56
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Tuning by eye- in 1853!
The tuner would watch the metronome pendulum until precisely four beats fit. That's at least the idea, idk how well it caught on.
Thanks for the other materials!
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Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
Original Message:
Sent: 09-01-2024 23:55
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Tuning by eye- in 1853!
...still waiting for how the piano was tuned by eye.
Here are a couple of papers you might find interesting.
https://escholarship.mcgill.ca/concern/theses/k930c094p -you have to download this one
The politics of musical standardization in nineteenth-century France and Britain can be read online here:
https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10141595/1/Gillin_French-Anglo%20pitch%20article_Past%20and%20Present.pdf
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Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
Original Message:
Sent: 09-01-2024 21:40
From: Horace Greeley
Subject: Tuning by eye- in 1853!
Hi, Tim,
Agreed...in general.
When using Google's translator, one does have to be careful in taking it too literally/factually. For example, while it does a fairly decent job of literary German, its technical German can be funky.
One can only imagine what it does with idiomatics-laden languages like English.
Thanks!
Horace
Original Message
Original Message:
Sent: 9/1/2024 9:35:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: RE: Tuning by eye- in 1853!
I search Google Play Books, an incredible collection of books. You can also highlight and hit translate for books in other languages. The translation feature seems to have come a long way.
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Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
Original Message:
Sent: 09-01-2024 20:42
From: Horace Greeley
Subject: Tuning by eye- in 1853!
Hi, Tim,
Any chance that you have any cites to any of these tuning manuals?
"Enquiring Minds" ...and all that...
Thanks very much.
Kind regards.
Horace
Original Message
Original Message:
Sent: 9/1/2024 8:28:00 PM
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Tuning by eye- in 1853!
Hello,
I've taken a deep dive into temperament and temperament history. Veroli's e-book has been incredible as well as others. But to get an authentic sense of historic tuning practice, I really like downloading tuning manuals from the 18th-19th century and reading their descriptions. One that particularly caught my eye as of late was an essay published in English from German in 1853 based on Scheibler's work a couple decades earlier. It's seems particularly relevant when we still weigh the benefits and drawbacks of tuning by eye and/or by ear. It reads:
"A much quicker and more acute judge of small differences than the ear, is, however, the eye, and by calling into assistance the aid of this organ, and making it, as it were, a superintendent of the former, Mr. H. Scheibler was enabled to obtain the great desideratum of a perfectly equalized temperament, and to benefit the musical world by an invention which is as beautiful as it is ingenious, and as simple as it is complete."
Scheiber was not a musician by trade, but a silk maker. Apparently he liked to tinker with numbers and using the calculated frequencies of mathematically perfect ET, he tuned tuning forks so that they would beat 4 bps when the pitch was correct, counting beats precisely with a metronome.
At this point in history, tuning instructions were nearly all in 4ths, 5ths and octaves and nearly always a very imprecise method of tempering fifths compared to today's standard. The essay mentions this in making an argument for this superior method of tuning by eye as he saw it:
"Before Mr. Scheibler's invention no such means existed by which even a tolerable equality of temperament could be obtained. In theory, and upon paper, the requisites of such a temperament were indeed known long ago; the precise number of vibrations for each semitone had been correctly calculated, and the necessary deviations from the mathematical scale pointed out. But when it came to practice - when a musical instrument had actually to be tuned - then all the calculations of the theorists proved so much worthless rubbish, because practice knew of no other means or criterion to regulate the pitch of the different sounds and their ratios to each other, than the ear. The practical proceeding, which was and is still adopted by those who know no better, is this: As the intervals of the Fifth and Fourth are those which the ear measures most easily, and in which it detects an impurity of attunement sooner than in any other, these are chosen as the media - either one of the two alone, or both together - through which all the other intervals (except the octave) are to be obtained by deduction. For if a series of twelve ascending Fifths or descending Fourths be attuned according to their ratios, such series will nominally include all the twelve semitones of the octave , and finally lead to the octave of the sound with which the series commenced ; thus…"
He then includes a series of 4ths/5ths as a normal way of attempting to aurally tune ET, and then concludes:
"After the twelve semitones of one octave have been thus tuned, the other lower or higher notes are tuned by octaves. This is the operation of the old method of tuning, whose perfect hopelessness of obtaining a satisfactory result shall now be shown."
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Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
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