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Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

  • 1.  Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Posted 05-16-2023 12:58

    I inducting a novice into the world of tuning.  We are working with the premise that a significant degree of ambidexterity is a helpful factor in cultivating long-term soundness of the bodily structures used in tuning.

    I do not tune with a significant degree of ambidexterity.  I have been using a full sized Levitan Professional (C Lever) for a number of years when tuning uprights and the trebles of grands, and nothing I do with a standard lever makes me quite as happy as I am when I am using my C lever.  But I don't think this is the right place to start with a novice.

    A search here of "tuning +upright +left +hand" yields lots of helpful information, as does a search in the Journal archives on similar terms.  The results I have found however, at least thus far, focus on the reasonableness of different strategies, as viewed from the point of efficiency, physics, stablility and so forth.  These are certainly useful and important in our ongoing conversations, but I'm not finding as much material in terms of body arrangement when using the various approaches.  Does a part of the arm rest against part of the piano case? Are the subtleties of hand position?  And so forth.

    So my questions are, for both left handed and right handed tuning with a standard tuning lever, what works for you? What bodily arrangements are consistent with stamina and long term health?  What gives you the control you need?  What instructional resources do you deem helpful in inducting someone new into all of this?

    Thanks for any help you can give with this!



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    Floyd Gadd RPT
    Regina SK
    (306) 502-9103
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  • 2.  RE: Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-16-2023 15:08

    For me, left hip towards the piano. No testing of arm. Lever at 11 to 1 best. David Campbell at convention showing verticals tuned in the Pearl River factory. All were being tuned left handed. He was asked if that was best? He said I don't know. The man that taught them was left handed.



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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Member
    Posted 05-17-2023 02:11

    Yes, when learning piano tuning in China, most of them require the use of the left hand. When I first started learning, I also required the use of the left hand.^_^



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    zhan xi huang
    西安市 Xi·an
    18741420582
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  • 4.  RE: Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-17-2023 02:41
    The only thing I can add to this discussion is that I am Left-Handed; it runs in the family, for at least two generations we know of. My mentor was right handed, and I learned to tune right handed, not certain I can even do it left-handed!; And yes, a college professor gave me some tests and told me that I was a true left-handed person. Apparently not all of us lefty's are! The test was decades ago, and all I remember about it was he had me draw some figures and write some letters while he observed me. I think it took all of about 15 minutes.
    But my older brother is ambidextrous.  Oh, and I cut my meat right handed, my mom figured I learned that way so I didn't have to swap my fork from my left to right hand! Well, plus the adults teaching me to cut my meat were all right handed!





  • 5.  RE: Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-16-2023 18:21

    For tuning uprights, I use a traditional style lever for the monochords and final octave (usually right handed but I can do left handed as well). For the rest of the piano I use an impact lever, first with my left hand until the tenor break, then with my right hand until I switch back to the traditional lever. 

    Here's a link to a video Nate Reyburn did. I know it's about using an impact lever, but the first part covers what to look for ergonomically speaking. 

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TZrqeCfj5i4



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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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  • 6.  RE: Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-17-2023 12:55

    The following applies to traditional Tuning Levers:

    When I started learning, the Braid White book "Piano Tuning and Allied Arts" was my bible. He recommended tuning uprights with lever in left hand between 10:00am and noon with some explanations as to why. The 1st printing is in the public domain for download. As we are more often raising pitch we are pulling upwards in the same direction that we are pulling the string through the bearing points. I tune grands with the lever in my right hand positions roughly between 1:00 and 3:00. Again, if raising pitch, pulling the string in the same direction passing through the bearing points.

    Most importantly, I have been splitting the load on my wrists and shoulders over nearly fifty years. Granted, I tune far more uprights than grands but I know it has made a difference.

    I mentored a friend who learned in the later 70's to start tuning uprights lefty and he has thanked me many times over the years for this.

    Finally, tuning uprights lefty allows one to reduce additional load by levering with your elbow on the fallboard of spinits and consoles. Also levering off the left side of the case with your forearm. I encourage all people starting to try and tune uprights lefty.



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    Tremaine Parsons RPT
    Georgetown CA
    (530) 333-9299
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  • 7.  RE: Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Posted 05-18-2023 15:28

    I had Reblitz's book in my hand early in my development as a tuner, and as I review what he says, it seems clear that I pretty much embraced his recommendations -- use of the dominant hand rather than an ambidextrous approach, a hammer position just off of vertical, and a commitment to resting the elbow somewhere to heighten control.

    In the responses above, Larry advocates a left-handed approach with no resting of the elbow. 

    Tremaine suggests a between-10:00-and-noon position for left-handed tuning, together with levering off of the fallboard or the left side of the case, where possible.  He also cites Braid White who says some of the same, and who advocates standing to tune.

    When I stand to tune the center section of a U3 with a standard lever, there is no obvious place to immobilize the elbow, so I end up in the situation Reblitz describes with the words "With your elbow hanging in mid-air, your shoulder is also a pivot point, decreasing control."

    It may well be that a good measure of the frustration I feel when I try to tackle this task is owing to an insufficient ongoing commitment to maintain muscular strength in my shoulders.  Even without the load of free-elbow tuning, I've run into grief with shoulder pain, though things are not uncomfortable in recent days.

    I would appreciate what further insight this community has to offer.



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    Floyd Gadd RPT
    Regina SK
    (306) 502-9103
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  • 8.  RE: Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-18-2023 20:57

    While I do advocate tuning uprights lefty, I only mention levering of an elbow or forearm as a potential added benefit under certain situations. Usually, when pitch raising smaller uprights as it can take some of the stress of of shoulders. I don't recall Braid White mentioning elbows. If I were tuning uprights righty, I imagine that I would have the tuning lever around 12:00 o'clock and using my elbow on the top of the piano when possible. But, I don't do uprights righty with the exception of very low bass notes under certain situations. (Baldwin Hamilton or upright left side up against a wall)



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    Tremaine Parsons RPT
    Georgetown CA
    (530) 333-9299
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  • 9.  RE: Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-19-2023 10:52

    I tune uprights right handed for two reasons.  One is that I prefer to tune uprights from the 1:00-1:30 position which means that the pin will flex the pitch very slightly to the flat side and thus you can tune more directly to the target pitch.  Tuning left handed you will raise above the pitch and then settle it back down.  That technique was based, I believe, on the idea of not stressing the front of the tuning pin hole.  I don't think it's an issue.  Also, I find that much of my tuning control comes from the ability to feel the pin move in the block and being right handed I just am able to feel that very tiny incremental move much better with my right hand and control those small movements.  But to each their own.  



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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
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  • 10.  RE: Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-19-2023 08:29
    Floyd,

    I personally like using my Levitan C lever on uprights, mostly right handed, sometimes with my elbow on the pinblock partly because I do not have to worry at all about hammer angle (noon, 1 pm, 2pm...).

    Now this may be surprising to some, but I make the pitch raise pass with a Cyber Grand Hammer with a tip extension, an impact hammer designed by Reyburn for grands. I like its weight, the fact that it does not flagpole whatsoever, I can achieve great speed although I am unsure I would recommend it to a beginner.

    Nicolas Lessard, RPT
    cellulaire 514 574-3308
       





  • 11.  RE: Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-18-2023 21:26

    Floyd, you have discovered a better tool, so why wouldn't it be a good choice for a beginner? (I agree it would not be the best Exclusive choice....)


     I have come to use the Impact Tuning Hammers (more appropriately named than ever!) on both grand and upright pianos. Our new apprentice is using them on uprights while also utilizing a Fujan hammer. I have observed that her ability to switch between the two hammers has not had any negative impact. In fact, using each type of hammer enhances her understanding and skill with the other, providing a most beneficial learning experience.


    Allan Sutton, m.mus. RPT
    www.pianotechniquemontreal.com





  • 12.  RE: Vertical Piano Tuning Ergonomics

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-19-2023 14:03

    If one tunes verticals left handed 10-12 one raises the pin out of its cradle and then settles it back. If one tunes grands right handed 2-4 one raises the pin out of its cradle and then settles it back. If one tunes verticals right handed 12-2 one flexes the pin in the cradle.



    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------