Pianotech

I recently had very good results using my chopstick voicing tool to reach down and give several pokes into the tops of each jack punching. They expanded readily but immediately compressed back to their original thickness, so no adjustment of the jack position was necessary. The noise however was much reduced. These were Renner parts - Yamaha felt may behave differently.

I seem to recall David Anderson recommending just a slight tweak (turn) in the button to alleviate this issue. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I recently had very good results using my chopstick voicing tool to reach down and give several pokes into the tops of each jack punching. They expanded readily but immediately compressed back to their original thickness, so no adjustment of the jack position was necessary. The noise however was much reduced. These were Renner parts - Yamaha felt may behave differently.

Thanks for additional info to think about . I was at conference class that David Anderson taught and he said a small turn of the adjustment screw will reduce or eliminate the noise. When I see the piano next week I will bring my chopstick voicer and try it as well. I will also look at the capstan felt . Replacing the felt would be my last resort although I may try it on some samples 

Thanks for additional info to think about . I was at conference class that David Anderson taught and he said a small turn of the adjustment screw will reduce or eliminate the noise. When I see the piano next week I will bring my chopstick voicer and try it as well. I will also look at the capstan felt . Replacing the felt would be my last resort although I may try it on some samples 

yes thats what i meant . I think any sound in actions with metal rails gets amplified in the action and can be further amplified by the room acoustics. Of course we as technicians are wired differently and hear things the pianist or listeners may not

Thanks for additional info to think about . I was at conference class that David Anderson taught and he said a small turn of the adjustment screw will reduce or eliminate the noise. When I see the piano next week I will bring my chopstick voicer and try it as well. I will also look at the capstan felt . Replacing the felt would be my last resort although I may try it on some samples 

For resuscitation of the wipoen heel/capstan cloth, you may want to consider first treating it with either VS Profelt or isopropyl alcohol and water (thanks for that tip, Don Mannino!) followed by brushing and/or needling.

And since you seem to be on the hunt for sources of noise beyond the jack regulating button punching, if the keys are at all chucking/pulley, that must be addressed.

Alan

Thanks for additional info to think about . I was at conference class that David Anderson taught and he said a small turn of the adjustment screw will reduce or eliminate the noise. When I see the piano next week I will bring my chopstick voicer and try it as well. I will also look at the capstan felt . Replacing the felt would be my last resort although I may try it on some samples 

When you use alcohol or,especially, VR Pro, how do you contain the uncontrolled expansion of the felt? Do you have to re-regulate the action?

I usually use a brass brush to scuff off the break up the compacted felt. Often, as Wim pointed out, there is a lot of nose from the key slap due to the  bottom hole of the key at the balance pin being too big. The key doesn't necessarily be pulley.

Stewart

For resuscitation of the wipoen heel/capstan cloth, you may want to consider first treating it with either VS Profelt or isopropyl alcohol and water (thanks for that tip, Don Mannino!) followed by brushing and/or needling.

And since you seem to be on the hunt for sources of noise beyond the jack regulating button punching, if the keys are at all chucking/pulley, that must be addressed.

Alan

Thanks for additional info to think about . I was at conference class that David Anderson taught and he said a small turn of the adjustment screw will reduce or eliminate the noise. When I see the piano next week I will bring my chopstick voicer and try it as well. I will also look at the capstan felt . Replacing the felt would be my last resort although I may try it on some samples 

Stewart,

Thanks for your comments!

Although I do leave balance holes tighter than many others do, this was more for extending the life of the hole through heavy usage (without, of course, compromising repetition). It had not occurred to me that a tighter hole might be quieter than a loser one, provided that it is not so loose as to be "pulley." Would be interested to learn how you ascertained that.

With regard to the swelling of the wip heel action cloth when Profelt is used, since this is part of the preparatory work, prior to regulation, it usually saves some turning up of the capstans. Sometimes, yes, it may necessitate turning them down after Profelt. And no, I do not have a protocol for governing to what extent the cloth swells up. That would be nice to do, however!

Best,

Alan

When you use alcohol or,especially, VR Pro, how do you contain the uncontrolled expansion of the felt? Do you have to re-regulate the action?

I usually use a brass brush to scuff off the break up the compacted felt. Often, as Wim pointed out, there is a lot of nose from the key slap due to the  bottom hole of the key at the balance pin being too big. The key doesn't necessarily be pulley.

Stewart

For resuscitation of the wipoen heel/capstan cloth, you may want to consider first treating it with either VS Profelt or isopropyl alcohol and water (thanks for that tip, Don Mannino!) followed by brushing and/or needling.

And since you seem to be on the hunt for sources of noise beyond the jack regulating button punching, if the keys are at all chucking/pulley, that must be addressed.

Alan

Thanks for additional info to think about . I was at conference class that David Anderson taught and he said a small turn of the adjustment screw will reduce or eliminate the noise. When I see the piano next week I will bring my chopstick voicer and try it as well. I will also look at the capstan felt . Replacing the felt would be my last resort although I may try it on some samples 

As taught by Yamaha, lift the front of the key and inch or so and, with a very light amount of pressure, the key should "float" down the key pin. Somewhere between "sticky" and "dead drop". Easier to demonstrate than describe, but I think you get the idea. The key pin needs to be clean and lubricated.

Stewart,

Thanks for your comments!

Although I do leave balance holes tighter than many others do, this was more for extending the life of the hole through heavy usage (without, of course, compromising repetition). It had not occurred to me that a tighter hole might be quieter than a loser one, provided that it is not so loose as to be "pulley." Would be interested to learn how you ascertained that.

With regard to the swelling of the wip heel action cloth when Profelt is used, since this is part of the preparatory work, prior to regulation, it usually saves some turning up of the capstans. Sometimes, yes, it may necessitate turning them down after Profelt. And no, I do not have a protocol for governing to what extent the cloth swells up. That would be nice to do, however!

Best,

Alan

When you use alcohol or,especially, VR Pro, how do you contain the uncontrolled expansion of the felt? Do you have to re-regulate the action?

I usually use a brass brush to scuff off the break up the compacted felt. Often, as Wim pointed out, there is a lot of nose from the key slap due to the  bottom hole of the key at the balance pin being too big. The key doesn't necessarily be pulley.

Stewart

For resuscitation of the wipoen heel/capstan cloth, you may want to consider first treating it with either VS Profelt or isopropyl alcohol and water (thanks for that tip, Don Mannino!) followed by brushing and/or needling.

And since you seem to be on the hunt for sources of noise beyond the jack regulating button punching, if the keys are at all chucking/pulley, that must be addressed.

Alan

Thanks for additional info to think about . I was at conference class that David Anderson taught and he said a small turn of the adjustment screw will reduce or eliminate the noise. When I see the piano next week I will bring my chopstick voicer and try it as well. I will also look at the capstan felt . Replacing the felt would be my last resort although I may try it on some samples 

With the key pin cleaned and lubricated, I lift the front of the key about two mm (it is not going to be any higher than that in actual usage, even with vigorous playing, due to the key upstop rail). I look, ideally, for a fall at the speed of "dampened cuing", for those who have turntables for playing vinyl. Lifting it an inch or so would result in a much looser fit. Makes me wonder even more about the relationship between noise and the degree of easing in non-pulley keys.

As taught by Yamaha, lift the front of the key and inch or so and, with a very light amount of pressure, the key should "float" down the key pin. Somewhere between "sticky" and "dead drop". Easier to demonstrate than describe, but I think you get the idea. The key pin needs to be clean and lubricated.

Stewart,

Thanks for your comments!

Although I do leave balance holes tighter than many others do, this was more for extending the life of the hole through heavy usage (without, of course, compromising repetition). It had not occurred to me that a tighter hole might be quieter than a loser one, provided that it is not so loose as to be "pulley." Would be interested to learn how you ascertained that.

With regard to the swelling of the wip heel action cloth when Profelt is used, since this is part of the preparatory work, prior to regulation, it usually saves some turning up of the capstans. Sometimes, yes, it may necessitate turning them down after Profelt. And no, I do not have a protocol for governing to what extent the cloth swells up. That would be nice to do, however!

Best,

Alan

When you use alcohol or,especially, VR Pro, how do you contain the uncontrolled expansion of the felt? Do you have to re-regulate the action?

I usually use a brass brush to scuff off the break up the compacted felt. Often, as Wim pointed out, there is a lot of nose from the key slap due to the  bottom hole of the key at the balance pin being too big. The key doesn't necessarily be pulley.

Stewart

For resuscitation of the wipoen heel/capstan cloth, you may want to consider first treating it with either VS Profelt or isopropyl alcohol and water (thanks for that tip, Don Mannino!) followed by brushing and/or needling.

And since you seem to be on the hunt for sources of noise beyond the jack regulating button punching, if the keys are at all chucking/pulley, that must be addressed.

Alan

Thanks for additional info to think about . I was at conference class that David Anderson taught and he said a small turn of the adjustment screw will reduce or eliminate the noise. When I see the piano next week I will bring my chopstick voicer and try it as well. I will also look at the capstan felt . Replacing the felt would be my last resort although I may try it on some samples 

Right. I guess a couple mm sounds right. And that's the process and type of float. Now remind me, what's a turntable? (<;

With the key pin cleaned and lubricated, I lift the front of the key about two mm (it is not going to be any higher than that in actual usage, even with vigorous playing, due to the key upstop rail). I look, ideally, for a fall at the speed of "dampened cuing", for those who have turntables for playing vinyl. Lifting it an inch or so would result in a much looser fit. Makes me wonder even more about the relationship between noise and the degree of easing in non-pulley keys.

As taught by Yamaha, lift the front of the key and inch or so and, with a very light amount of pressure, the key should "float" down the key pin. Somewhere between "sticky" and "dead drop". Easier to demonstrate than describe, but I think you get the idea. The key pin needs to be clean and lubricated.

Stewart,

Thanks for your comments!

Although I do leave balance holes tighter than many others do, this was more for extending the life of the hole through heavy usage (without, of course, compromising repetition). It had not occurred to me that a tighter hole might be quieter than a loser one, provided that it is not so loose as to be "pulley." Would be interested to learn how you ascertained that.

With regard to the swelling of the wip heel action cloth when Profelt is used, since this is part of the preparatory work, prior to regulation, it usually saves some turning up of the capstans. Sometimes, yes, it may necessitate turning them down after Profelt. And no, I do not have a protocol for governing to what extent the cloth swells up. That would be nice to do, however!

Best,

Alan

When you use alcohol or,especially, VR Pro, how do you contain the uncontrolled expansion of the felt? Do you have to re-regulate the action?

I usually use a brass brush to scuff off the break up the compacted felt. Often, as Wim pointed out, there is a lot of nose from the key slap due to the  bottom hole of the key at the balance pin being too big. The key doesn't necessarily be pulley.

Stewart

For resuscitation of the wipoen heel/capstan cloth, you may want to consider first treating it with either VS Profelt or isopropyl alcohol and water (thanks for that tip, Don Mannino!) followed by brushing and/or needling.

And since you seem to be on the hunt for sources of noise beyond the jack regulating button punching, if the keys are at all chucking/pulley, that must be addressed.

Alan

Thanks for additional info to think about . I was at conference class that David Anderson taught and he said a small turn of the adjustment screw will reduce or eliminate the noise. When I see the piano next week I will bring my chopstick voicer and try it as well. I will also look at the capstan felt . Replacing the felt would be my last resort although I may try it on some samples 

When you use alcohol or,especially, VR Pro, how do you contain the uncontrolled expansion of the felt? Do you have to re-regulate the action?

I usually use a brass brush to scuff off the break up the compacted felt. Often, as Wim pointed out, there is a lot of nose from the key slap due to the  bottom hole of the key at the balance pin being too big. The key doesn't necessarily be pulley.

Stewart

For resuscitation of the wipoen heel/capstan cloth, you may want to consider first treating it with either VS Profelt or isopropyl alcohol and water (thanks for that tip, Don Mannino!) followed by brushing and/or needling.

And since you seem to be on the hunt for sources of noise beyond the jack regulating button punching, if the keys are at all chucking/pulley, that must be addressed.

Alan

When you use alcohol or,especially, VR Pro, how do you contain the uncontrolled expansion of the felt? Do you have to re-regulate the action?

I usually use a brass brush to scuff off the break up the compacted felt. Often, as Wim pointed out, there is a lot of nose from the key slap due to the  bottom hole of the key at the balance pin being too big. The key doesn't necessarily be pulley.

Stewart

For resuscitation of the wipoen heel/capstan cloth, you may want to consider first treating it with either VS Profelt or isopropyl alcohol and water (thanks for that tip, Don Mannino!) followed by brushing and/or needling.

And since you seem to be on the hunt for sources of noise beyond the jack regulating button punching, if the keys are at all chucking/pulley, that must be addressed.

Alan

When you use alcohol or,especially, VR Pro, how do you contain the uncontrolled expansion of the felt? Do you have to re-regulate the action?

I usually use a brass brush to scuff off the break up the compacted felt. Often, as Wim pointed out, there is a lot of nose from the key slap due to the  bottom hole of the key at the balance pin being too big. The key doesn't necessarily be pulley.

Stewart

When you use alcohol or,especially, VR Pro, how do you contain the uncontrolled expansion of the felt? Do you have to re-regulate the action?

I usually use a brass brush to scuff off the break up the compacted felt. Often, as Wim pointed out, there is a lot of nose from the key slap due to the  bottom hole of the key at the balance pin being too big. The key doesn't necessarily be pulley.

Stewart

When you use alcohol or,especially, VR Pro, how do you contain the uncontrolled expansion of the felt? Do you have to re-regulate the action?

I usually use a brass brush to scuff off the break up the compacted felt. Often, as Wim pointed out, there is a lot of nose from the key slap due to the  bottom hole of the key at the balance pin being too big. The key doesn't necessarily be pulley.

Stewart

For resuscitation of the wipoen heel/capstan cloth, you may want to consider first treating it with either VS Profelt or isopropyl alcohol and water (thanks for that tip, Don Mannino!) followed by brushing and/or needling.

And since you seem to be on the hunt for sources of noise beyond the jack regulating button punching, if the keys are at all chucking/pulley, that must be addressed.

Alan

Bob,

I just found this video by Fred Sturm. Very informative and he demonstrates brushing knuckles and wippen rest felts. It's under PTG Academy if the link doesn't work.

https://my.ptg.org/HigherLogic/System/DownloadDocumentFile.ashx?DocumentFileKey=541d3e4a-dc35-f000-9197-177516d480cc&forceDialog=0

When you use alcohol or,especially, VR Pro, how do you contain the uncontrolled expansion of the felt? Do you have to re-regulate the action?

I usually use a brass brush to scuff off the break up the compacted felt. Often, as Wim pointed out, there is a lot of nose from the key slap due to the  bottom hole of the key at the balance pin being too big. The key doesn't necessarily be pulley.

Stewart

For resuscitation of the wipoen heel/capstan cloth, you may want to consider first treating it with either VS Profelt or isopropyl alcohol and water (thanks for that tip, Don Mannino!) followed by brushing and/or needling.

And since you seem to be on the hunt for sources of noise beyond the jack regulating button punching, if the keys are at all chucking/pulley, that must be addressed.

Alan