Parafin oil is usually mineral oil, though in the UK it is often kerosene. Both mineral oil and kerosine are mostly or entirely chains of carbon and hydrogen atoms.
Natural oils, like animal fats or vegetable oils contain an acid group, which resembles acetic acid (vinegar), these are usually referred to as fatty acids. This acid group can degrade off of the carbon chain it is attached to and becomes the acid that can cause corrosion of copper or brass (copper acetate or verdegris).
Piano parts lubricated with pure mineral oil will probably not corrode unless some other material is added. Mineral oil and naptha have been used for many years as a flange lubricant with fairly good results and I have heard of no reports of corrosion from that treatment. Wood itself contains some acid and there can be some acid etching from degrading wood, this is the source of the acid that degrades lead in boat models housed in wood display cases (the US Navy has a research report on this). If this were a serious problem then we would see much more wide spread corrosion of brass and copper parts in pianos.
It is the acid in contaminated parts that we need to neutralize. The ammonium chloride compounds in common cleaning agents like Fantastic (and other cleaners) are what might react with the acids in piano parts, neutralizing the acids and reducing the waxy and oily deposits and freeing up the parts. Ammonia itself may also work.
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Blaine Hebert RPT
Duarte CA
(626) 795-5170
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-08-2022 17:07
From: Cecil Snyder
Subject: addendum to "A Fantastik Remedy for Verdigris"
The source of the copper in copper acetate is the center pins. Piano center pins are commonly made of "German silver", an alloy of brass which, even though it appears to look like steel, has no iron in it. Don't try fishing for that dropped center pin with a magnet. This is common to almost all pianos. But all pianos do not have this green gunk. The green is just a symptom, a correllary but not the cause. The gunk, that is, the residual wax left from the application of mineral (sometimes know as paraffin) oil, is the real culprit here.
Paraffin wax does not chemically react with anything. This is why they used to use it to encase tissue samples back in the days before refrigeration. Nothing will corrode or degrade it. Nothing will dissolve it, though heating will turn it from a solid to a liquid. Since you can't chemically remove it, it will eventually return to gum things up again. Alcohol and water acts to size the bushing cloth, but if the bushing cloth has been properly sized already, you won't get much mileage out of that. When I first started treating Steinway flanges for this condition, I used alcohol and water in a heat box, followed by silicon oil in naphtha. This works like a charm if the flanges haven't been dunked in mineral (also know as paraffin) oil. But eventually the Steinway flanges will always revert to their old ways. Usually after a year or two. Until you have followed up this Fantastic treatment for some time, I wouldn't be making any promises (or charging) for a permanent fix.
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Cecil Snyder RPT
Torrance CA
(310) 542-7108
Original Message:
Sent: 08-08-2022 12:49
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: addendum to "A Fantastik Remedy for Verdigris"
It seems that because there is water in Fantastik there naturally would be swelling of the felt and sluggishness until the water evaporates. Just like adding a solution of alcohol and water. Once the bushing felt has shrunk, of course the flange is going to be more free than before. I don't know much more about the action of the other ingredients, which are:
Ingredients
- Water Water. Provides a liquid base for a product.
- Diisopropanolamine pH Adjuster. ...
- Isotridecyl Alcohol 3EO Cleaning Agent.
- Lauramine Oxide Cleaning Agent. ...
- Benzalkonium Chloride Active Ingredient. ...
- Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate Chelator. ...
- Fragrance Fragrance.
Ok, so there's alcohol in it. Check. Water. Check. Other stuff, yeah it's in there. Whether it removes or neutralizes the negative effects of the tallow/oil/paraffin I don't know. If they leach out the bad stuff, that's great. Whatever is used, I would prefer to blast it out with compressed air. If you put a nozzle over the flange hole and blast air through it, you can often see stuff being emitted from the ends of the flange via the capillaries of the wood. That's what I want to see. Less contamination to ooze back into the felt.
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Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com
Original Message:
Sent: 08-08-2022 12:27
From: Robert Sluss
Subject: addendum to "A Fantastik Remedy for Verdigris"
I'd like to clarify a few things concerning my original post.
I fully believe that Fantastik is a very promising solution. My post was not intended to disagree with that.
When I described working the mentioned hammers and applying Protek CLP, it was because I was dealing with an unknown situation and CLP was my only known hope of a quick remedy. One detail I left out, for brevity's sake, was that I had treated a couple other hammer flanges, A0 and B0, with Fantastik also, and they seized up, but I left them alone, concentrating on the ones in the upper 2nd octave I'd apllied it to. I noticed, while I was tuning, that those that I'd left alone were freeing up on their on accord, as the hammers in my home piano did.
My current conclusion is that Fantastic may not be ideal for the "quick jobs" where there is light contamination. I fully intend to give it a try to a really "gummed-up" set of flanges next.
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Robert Sluss
Lake City FL
(386) 752-1888
Original Message:
Sent: 08-06-2022 19:07
From: Robert Sluss
Subject: addendum to "A Fantastik Remedy for Verdigris"
I read with keen interest the April Journals' A Fantastik Remedy For Verdigris. Dealing with contaminated (usually hammer) action centers on a regular basis, this piqued my attention. Thinking "Great-now I can quit using Protek CLP," I prepared some Fantastik to go with me in my tool case.
Last weekend, I was in front of new customer 1950's Balwin spinet; not in too bad of condition, a few slow hammers here and there. As I do even in light contamination situations, I decided to treat the whole set of hammer flanges. As I began, I saw immediately that the hammers were seizing up--and I mean seizing up! My jaw dropped & I began to sweat. Nothing about this in the article, I thought. NOW what?!? I immediately grabbed the Protek (I could swear I heard snickering coming from the bottle) & doused the afflicted flanges & worked the hammers. No results. Prepared the piano & started tuning, periodically working the hammers as I went through the tuning. This customer had gotten recommendation about me from a music minister of the church she attends, and was very eagerly awaiting for her old spinet to shine! Fortunately, the hammers completely freed up within the hour (I must wave worked them 600 or more times), the piano was tuned, and she was thrilled! I completely downed a bottled water they handed me & and departed.
The next day, I went to my piano in the living room (a 1922 vintage Monarch my mother's parents had purchased in 1925), and applied the Fantastik on a few hammer flanges (I wish I had an instrument newer than 40 years as this experiment, but oh, well). The hammers didn't seize up like in the old Acrosonic, but they did slow quite a bit. I looked at the clock and went & did other things. About two to 2-1/2 hours later, they were completely free. My old friend Protek CLP is still in the tool case; I will now figure out a way to carry Fantastik in my vehicle (it seems to be rather volatile) for the really bad cases of action center contamination.
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Robert Sluss
Lake City FL
(386) 752-1888
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