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back issues with upright pianos

  • 1.  back issues with upright pianos

    Posted 03-01-2023 11:28

    Anyone else have back issues when tuning tall uprights (like the Yamaha U-1)?    I use an elastic back brace, but it still gets quite painful before i finish tuning.  Anyone found anything that helps considerably?  (It's not my shoulder or arm-- it's my lower back that's the problem--- from standing.)   Chiropractor and back stretches help post-tuning, but it remains a bit of a challenge while at the piano.



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    Timothy Edwards
    Beckley WV
    (740) 517-7636
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  • 2.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2023 11:36
    Tim

    You say you stretch after tuning. But do you stretch before tuning? When I used to play racquetball, I got on my knees, sat on my haunches, and reached my arms out in front of my as far as I could. That really stretched out the muscles in my back, thighs, and knees.  



    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2023 18:27
    Sorry for your aching !

    The solution, in addition to stretching, is to use a Reyburn impact hammer (now the "hammer" designation has become appropriate !)


    Allan Sutton, m.mus. RPT
    www.pianotechniquemontreal.com



    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-03-2023 13:59

    I was having back issues as mentioned in the post along with sore arms and shoulders. An impact tuning hammer helped. However, the worst situation that was developing with upright pianos was standing for periods of time which was hard on my feet and legs. (I'm 67 years old and I've been tuning since I was 19.) About 10 years ago, I developed an adjustable stool combination and I have not had any pain since then. I was working for a big Boston MetroWest piano company and was doing up to 10 tunings per day when I built it. (This included pitch raises.) It was constructed so that it could be adjusted so I could be at the optimum height and angle for tuning every piano without standing except for the extreme tallest old uprights. It also folds up so you can stick it under one arm when you are going to and from the customers house. It cost less than $75 when I built it. I call it the "Banned-Stand." Get it? 😀Anyway, my boss liked it so I built one for him too. If anyone is interested, I can get back with a photo and the two parts you'll need to order from Amazon & VanDykes Restorers. One is a folding seat and the other is the old fashion clawfoot stool style adjustable seat mechanism.



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    James Sasso RPT
    Wrentham MA
    (508) 384-6570
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-07-2023 13:38

    James,

    That is an interesting solution you came up with to deal with the fatigue caused by standing at an upright.

    When doing shop work, I now routinely use a Hog Heaven anti-fatigue mat (7/8" thick x 3' x 6'). I like it so much that I got a much smaller, square one to keep in my car for tuning uprights. It is not a stand alone panacea, but combined with Joe's suggestions, it has made made tuning uprights far less painful.

    FWIW,

    Alan



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    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Member
    Posted 03-01-2023 19:11

    I would advise you to stand and to press your left leg against the front of the piano. I do this on all uprights including a full sized Joseph Pramberger Signature vertical. I have two Charles Faulk levers that help with my arm that used to ache from tennis elbow pain. My previous lever was a Schaff extension lever that was like a tire iron. When you drive try placing your hands lower on the steering wheel not high up or at 3 and 9 o'clock Your body will move back into the seat and avoid hunching forward. Because I had a recent flare up in my right hand due to Carpal Tunnel my hand therapist wrapped my lever with a foam padding and ace bandage. This took pressure off the carpal tunnel area that starts at the hand/wrist/arm area.  You also could be having issues with disks in the neck and back area so it is important to have those areas examined for arthritis or spinal stenosis



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2023 21:57

    I found that while chiropractic manipulation helped frequently with muscle pain, it was only temporary. The discomfort returned quickly because chiropractic treatment was not addressing the cause of the pain. What I was doing, day to day, that was causing things to get messed up in the first place. I finally went to see a physical therapist who helped me learn not only what my movements, while tuning, were doing to my body, but showed me some very specific exercises and stretches to address the specific muscles being affected. Without addressing the specific muscles involved you will not be able to release the tension in those muscles. A general back stretch will not usually catch the specific muscle that is giving you pain. Once you get the correct stretches, etc., for the correct muscles, after a while those muscles will begin to relax for longer and longer periods of time, and the pain and the stress eases up long term. You can move freely again, and for longer periods of time. Just keep doing those physical therapist prescribed stretches every day and you'll feel a whole lot better.



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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2023 04:01

    The DB method $329. It is a rehab, exercise machine that you sit on to do squats. It strengthens the areas that support the back. I have not tried it personally yet but it looks promising. Sending healing thoughts your way. "Love and honor to Miami U "



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    Patsi Franklin RPT
    Maitland FL
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    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2023 07:30
    Hello Timothy,

    There has been some very good suggestions. Every little of these help.
    Including ear plugs believe it or not. Ear fatigue can lead to the body reacting negatively. The impact tuning hammer is a blessing; really.
    The one thing that I have added to my improvement in my work is that I have started taking Alexander Technique lessons with an Alexander teacher. Wow! There is a reason why many musicians take lessons, and that their sound improves in the long run.
    It is not easy to explain what it is but basically it is relearning what bad habits we have started learning since the age of 2! A lot has to do with the neck and Mr. Alexander was a vocalist. He designed the technique due to his constraint while singing.
    It is a one on one lesson and the brain registers the corrections, while there are improvements; if one is willing to change some of the habits.
    It is not for everyone as it is quite structured, but my back and whole body has been very much better.
    Some people try the diy technique but frankly, why not learn the right way. A teacher trains for three years and has 1600 hrs of practical work before becoming a certified teacher.
    I had been mulling it over for many years as I was getting tired of a tight back, tight shoulders, and going about the wrong way with approaching on how to remedy it (foam rollers, and many other items of self help). I do a 90 min. massage once a month. My masseuse has noticed that my body is less tense since starting the technique. I am not feeling in tremendous pain after the massage.

    Just sharing about something that works for me.

    Victor Bélanger RPT
    Belmont, MA


    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2023 07:33
    Sorry I forgot to share the link:

    Victor Bélanger
    Belmont, MA

    On Mar 2, 2023, at 7:30 AM, Victor Belanger <Vbela@mit.edu> wrote:

    Hello Timothy,

    There has been some very good suggestions. Every little of these help.
    Including ear plugs believe it or not. Ear fatigue can lead to the body reacting negatively. The impact tuning hammer is a blessing; really.
    The one thing that I have added to my improvement in my work is that I have started taking Alexander Technique lessons with an Alexander teacher. Wow! There is a reason why many musicians take lessons, and that their sound improves in the long run.
    It is not easy to explain what it is but basically it is relearning what bad habits we have started learning since the age of 2! A lot has to do with the neck and Mr. Alexander was a vocalist. He designed the technique due to his constraint while singing.
    It is a one on one lesson and the brain registers the corrections, while there are improvements; if one is willing to change some of the habits.
    It is not for everyone as it is quite structured, but my back and whole body has been very much better.
    Some people try the diy technique but frankly, why not learn the right way. A teacher trains for three years and has 1600 hrs of practical work before becoming a certified teacher.
    I had been mulling it over for many years as I was getting tired of a tight back, tight shoulders, and going about the wrong way with approaching on how to remedy it (foam rollers, and many other items of self help). I do a 90 min. massage once a month. My masseuse has noticed that my body is less tense since starting the technique. I am not feeling in tremendous pain after the massage.

    Just sharing about something that works for me.

    Victor Bélanger RPT
    Belmont, MA




    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Posted 03-02-2023 08:26

    Alexander technique offers many benefits, it is a kind of continuous refreshing awareness of our body use, never falling into rote habit.

    For vertical tuning, holding the lever in the left hand offers significant advantages. The left arm (and even hand) can be supported by the piano, presenting much less stress to the shoulder and back. Having the lever at about 10 o'clock slightly lifts the pin when raising pitch, requiring less effort than working with the lever to the other side of 12 o'clock. Tuning from the left side involves a smooth, rhythmic lifting/settling pattern that reduces accumulated tension.  (Alexander technique will help you stay aware and take benefit from this.)



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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Posted 03-10-2023 14:08

    I wish I could use my left hand more, but my brain needs retraining in order for that to happen!  :-)



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    PATRICK GREENE
    OWNER
    Knoxville TN
    (865) 384-6582
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    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-10-2023 17:07
    You hit it right on the head Patrick!
    You could try starting out by using your left hand for pitch correcting passes. Or also doing pedestrian things such as brushing teeth, shaving, combing hair, chopping vegetables, etc., to start the training. It’s certainly worth a shot.

    Joe Wiencek


    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-10-2023 17:58
    Hi Patrick,

    Here's a thought of encouragement: what your brain already knows about hammer technique, will greatly reduce the effort needed to train your other hand. It's called transfer value. 

    Many years ago, a friend and I got curious about handedness, and tried to learn to throw a ball with our "other" hand. How long would you guess? We had no idea, so we just started throwing a tennis ball at a wall. To our surprise, about 1/2 hour got us in the ballpark, so to speak, and another half hour got us more smoothness, control, power, and comfort. 

    So yes, it's retraining your brain, but not from zero. 

    Mark Schecter
     | |   | | |   | |   | | |   | |   | | | 




    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2023 12:07

    I second the recommendation of Alexander Technique. I went through it and it helped a lot. AT teachers have given classes at several past PTG conventions and conferences and have always been well received.

    Alexander Technique is a method of learning body awareness. Learning how the body moves and the correct ways to accomplish those moves without stress and eventually damage. It's not cheap but it's worth it. Only takes about 10 sessions. I go back about once a year for a "reminder" session. Correcting some of the stuff I have let slip. 



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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-04-2023 22:19
    I find this to be a pertinent issue that we all relate to as our work is very body intensive. Many good suggestions have been offered. I doubt there is ever any one “cure.” From my own experience, I believe distributing the load throughout the body is very helpful. Learning to tune with the non-dominant hand will certainly help. Even more important is to develop sensitivity to when and how we use or hold our body. For example, when you read postings on this list, how is your posture, are you holding tension in certain parts of your body? Being aware of this is a point of embarkation. This is also tied in with our own preconceived ideas, and even deeply embedded emotions and/or psychological states.

    It takes courage to be willing to explore new patterns of movement, but I believe this leads to so many avenues previously unknown. Many of these untrodden paths will bring clarity, some will be dead ends.

    Exercise and stretching as a habit will benefit immensely, especially keeping in mind your own body’s current limitations.

    Joe Wiencek
    NYC


    Original Message


  • 17.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2023 08:49

    Tim, Very simply exercise to strengthen your lower back.  All you need is a couch. chair, or bench.  Simply sit down and stand up again. Do 3 reps of 10.  Ease yourself down, don't flop down.  You don't need special equipment, it can be done any time and any where.  It only takes a few minutes.   If you do it every day it will help. 



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    John Gunderson RPT
    Neptune City NJ
    (732) 740-6674
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    Original Message


  • 18.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2023 08:59

    In addition to all the great suggestions others have made, I'll share a few things that have helped me significantly. 

    • Learn to use an impact lever, preferably the Reyburn CyberHammer, as the majority of the weight on the CyberHammer works for you, not against you. Get an extension piece for those tight pins.
    • Use a carbon fiber lever. Yes, they're expensive, but your tunings will be better, and it saves your body in the process. Well worth the investment.
    • Make sure to keep both feet on the ground at all times.
    • When you can, alternate between sitting and standing, and learn to tune ambidextrously. It helps your body by changing which muscle groups you're using rather than using the same one the entire time. 


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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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    Original Message


  • 19.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Posted 03-02-2023 10:47

    I am not currently struggling with back issues, though I did experience that a couple of years back.

    I use the Levitan Professional (full size) tuning lever almost exclusively when I am tuning uprights.  I perceive that there is an ergonomic benefit.  I find the process to be pretty comfortable.  I haven't analyzed it with any particularly informed frame of reference, so maybe the benefit is imaginary.  Does anyone else out there have insight on this?



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    Floyd Gadd RPT
    Regina SK
    (306) 502-9103
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    Original Message


  • 20.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2023 11:05

    I was having severe back pain years ago, off and on, regularly.  I went to a doctor to ask about this, and he said that the curvature of my lower back was incorrect.  The spine should curve like a lazy S from the neck to your sternum.  I got the hint, and I began leaning back on the edge of a bed or couch and sliding slowly down, starting from my lower back .  This pushes against the vertebrae as you do this, and you can sometimes feel things popping into place.  Then when I stand up, I feel 10 feet tall!    I have never had any back pain like before since I began doing this.  I realized that my years of bad posture is catching up with me. The importance of having your back in alignment is very important.  All the nerves for your organs branch out from it.  If they're pinched, then you lose the communication from your organs to your brain.  But you can't make a chiropractic appointment on a daily basis, so doing this is very close to getting your back "cracked" any time you want.  It's easy, it helps, and no appointment necessary. 



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    Paul McCloud, RPT
    Accutone Piano Service
    www.AccutonePianoService.com
    pavadasa@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 21.  RE: back issues with upright pianos

    Posted 03-04-2023 07:54

    Thanks, everyone for all the great suggestions.   I incorporated a few of them yesterday on a Yamaha U-3 with good results.  Thanks again!



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    Timothy Edwards
    Beckley WV
    (740) 517-7636
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    Original Message