Hi, Fenton,
Giddy-up 409.
For all the press at the time, it appears that the best that can be done
with this basic design leaves something to be desired. Here's a link to
an interesting project:
https://www.enginelabs.com/news/giddy-up-409-modernizing-a-chevrolet-w-series-409-big-block/Done by 5800 rpm...but, getting there is half the fun.
Back to pianos:
Ditto to your comment about the older Baldwins. Very underrated. Work
well with Weickert/Wurzen felt.
Also, here's a link to Tremaine Parsons' website:
https://tparsons.com/...and, to the Computer Tools for Piano Technicians site, where one can
get PScale:
https://goptools.com/index.htmAdditionally, on this page can be found Tremaine's TemperTool, which is
a training tool for understanding ET; and how to get there. (It's free
to PTG members.)
Kind regards.
Horace
On 11/13/2022 11:00 AM, S. Fenton Murray via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
> Hi Nick, Plugging your string lengths and wire sizes into a stringing program, such as PScale from Tremaine Parson, RPT, will??
> provide you with much needed information and allow you to make improvements, if desired, in the original scale. I would highly recommend
> this exercise as part of a restringing. I have found these older maple rimmed Baldwins to be big powerful beasts, I love them.
> American muscle. Like a mid 60s Nova with a big block
>
> ------------------------------
> Fenton Murray, RPT
>
> Fenton
> ------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11-13-2022 02:18
> From: Nicholas Dedini
> Subject: Baldwin R string scale
>
> I never heard it in a fully tuned state, but the tone was strong and clear, sustain excellent. The piano was in a house that was selling and needed to be moved. I got it for free to get it out of the house for the seller. It had come with the house when they bought it just a year prior ago and they knew nothing about its history. It was quite dirty and needed new keytops and bass strings, but the case is in good shape and is structurally very solid with what seems like adequate downbearing and crown. An experienced RPT in our small chapter checked it out and recommended it as a worthwhile project as I make my way along the path to becoming and RPT. I have already learned a lot and am just getting started. Thanks everyone!
>
> ------------------------------
> Nicholas Dedini
> Arcata CA
> ------------------------------
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11-13-2022 01:07
> From: Joe Wiencek
> Subject: Baldwin R string scale
>
> JD Grandt will rescale the piano for you if you provide measurements (for a fee I believe.) Maybe Arledge too? There's also scaling software available, one I believe has or is still advertised (Pscale) in the classified section of the journal.
>
> I'm curious what the piano sounded like before removing strings. I had a U1 in my care for a spell that had one note in the high tenor that I absolutely could neither tune nor voice to sound good. I eventually figured out that the unison had two different sized strings.
>
> Joe Wiencek
> NYC
>
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11/12/2022 11:04:00 PM
> From: Nicholas Dedini
> Subject: RE: Baldwin R string scale
>
> The mystery deepens! I found out from Arledge that the bass string configuration is different from any Baldwin, or any other piano, he has made bass strings for. There are 8 unisons and 19 bichords. The plain wire sections are also be different from the book, as the scale from the book has 63 notes in it, but the piano has 61 notes with plain wire trichords.
> ?? ?? It looks like I will need to rescale it or modify the scale that was in the piano to avoid having two different string sizes in a trichord unison. The large number of unisons with two string sizes has me a bit concerned for the care that went into the scale in the piano, so maybe rescaling it is the better option? I do not know how to do this, however. Any resources or advice on how this is done?
>
> ------------------------------
> Nicholas Dedini
> Arcata CA
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11-12-2022 11:50
> From: Robert Callaghan
> Subject: Baldwin R string scale
>
> Never have two strings of different sizes on the same unison. Without seeing the piano, it sounds like someone painted over the plate and restrung it just making things up. Unless you want to rescale it yourself, I would go with what's in the book.
>
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11/12/2022 11:40:00 AM
> From: Nicholas Dedini
> Subject: RE: Baldwin R string scale
>
> Thank you, Jon and Robert! Wow, that is very different from what I am seeing in the piano.
>
> I finished removing and measuring the strings and what I found is:
> 13 - 4
> 13 1/2 - 4
> 14 - 6
> 14 1/2 - 5
> 15 - 6
> 15 1/2 - 8
> 16 - 4
> 16 1/2 - 4
> 17 1/2 - 5 (minus one string, as the next size begins on the last string of the last note)
> 18 - 3
> 18 1/2 - 5
> 19 - 4
> 20 - 2
> 21 - 1 (plus one string)
>
> Starting with size 18, the last string of that size goes into the next note for one string, then the size changes for the other two strings of the note. This continues for the rest of the piano. This seemed strange to me, but the measurements bear it out. There are also a number of other differences between what has been shared from the book and what was in the piano. I had been using more recent texts as guides, but realized that I had a copy of the Travis Guide to Restringing in my library, and it says that Baldwin scale numbers are always printed on the plate, however that is not the case on the piano I am working on.
> ??I imagine it is not typical, nor a good idea, to have two string sizes within a unison. Should I revert back to the published string scale when I restring it? Or copy what was in the piano? Thoughts welcome and appreciated.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Nicholas Dedini
> Arcata CA
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11-12-2022 10:26
> From: Robert Callaghan
> Subject: Baldwin R string scale
>
> Hi Nicholas.I used to live in Arcata!
> Baldwin R (from A Guide to Restringing)
>
> 13 - 613 1/2 - 414 - 414 1/2 - 515 - 615 1/2 - 616 - 616 1/2 - 417 - 1018 - 619 - 420 - 2
>
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11/11/2022 10:56:00 PM
> From: Nicholas Dedini
> Subject: Baldwin R string scale
>
>
> I am wondering if anyone has a file with the string scale for an older Baldwin R. I have a 1908 Baldwin R in my shop that I am putting new strings on. It is only the second time I have installed new bass strings and the first time to replace all the strings. I measured each plain wire string with a micrometer as I removed them and as I was doing so I came across at least two instances where the string gauge changed in the last string of a three string unison. It has made me not sure of some of my measurements and I am now worried I have some of them incorrect possibly.??
>
> ?? ??I imagine the scaling of the Baldwin R is not something that has changed much over the life of that model being produced, but maybe older American made ones differ from more recent ones?
> I also wonder if there is a significant problem with possibly having the wrong gauge on a string or two here and there. Perhaps it was restrung at some point and the strings were not matched perfectly? If anyone has a copy of the scale for the Baldwin R, I would be most grateful.??
>
>
> Nick Dedini
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Nicholas Dedini
> Arcata CA
> ------------------------------
>
>
> Reply to Sender :
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> Reply to Discussion :
https://my.ptg.org/eGroups/PostReply/?GroupId=43&MID=757276>
>
>
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Original Message:
Sent: 11/13/2022 2:01:00 PM
From: S. Fenton Murray
Subject: RE: Baldwin R string scale
Hi Nick, Plugging your string lengths and wire sizes into a stringing program, such as PScale from Tremaine Parson, RPT, will
provide you with much needed information and allow you to make improvements, if desired, in the original scale. I would highly recommend
this exercise as part of a restringing. I have found these older maple rimmed Baldwins to be big powerful beasts, I love them.
American muscle. Like a mid 60s Nova with a big block
------------------------------
Fenton Murray, RPT
Fenton
------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 11-13-2022 02:18
From: Nicholas Dedini
Subject: Baldwin R string scale
I never heard it in a fully tuned state, but the tone was strong and clear, sustain excellent. The piano was in a house that was selling and needed to be moved. I got it for free to get it out of the house for the seller. It had come with the house when they bought it just a year prior ago and they knew nothing about its history. It was quite dirty and needed new keytops and bass strings, but the case is in good shape and is structurally very solid with what seems like adequate downbearing and crown. An experienced RPT in our small chapter checked it out and recommended it as a worthwhile project as I make my way along the path to becoming and RPT. I have already learned a lot and am just getting started. Thanks everyone!
------------------------------
Nicholas Dedini
Arcata CA
Original Message:
Sent: 11-13-2022 01:07
From: Joe Wiencek
Subject: Baldwin R string scale
JD Grandt will rescale the piano for you if you provide measurements (for a fee I believe.) Maybe Arledge too? There's also scaling software available, one I believe has or is still advertised (Pscale) in the classified section of the journal.
I'm curious what the piano sounded like before removing strings. I had a U1 in my care for a spell that had one note in the high tenor that I absolutely could neither tune nor voice to sound good. I eventually figured out that the unison had two different sized strings.
Joe Wiencek
NYC
Original Message:
Sent: 11/12/2022 11:04:00 PM
From: Nicholas Dedini
Subject: RE: Baldwin R string scale
The mystery deepens! I found out from Arledge that the bass string configuration is different from any Baldwin, or any other piano, he has made bass strings for. There are 8 unisons and 19 bichords. The plain wire sections are also be different from the book, as the scale from the book has 63 notes in it, but the piano has 61 notes with plain wire trichords.
It looks like I will need to rescale it or modify the scale that was in the piano to avoid having two different string sizes in a trichord unison. The large number of unisons with two string sizes has me a bit concerned for the care that went into the scale in the piano, so maybe rescaling it is the better option? I do not know how to do this, however. Any resources or advice on how this is done?
------------------------------
Nicholas Dedini
Arcata CA
Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2022 11:50
From: Robert Callaghan
Subject: Baldwin R string scale
Never have two strings of different sizes on the same unison. Without seeing the piano, it sounds like someone painted over the plate and restrung it just making things up. Unless you want to rescale it yourself, I would go with what's in the book.
Original Message:
Sent: 11/12/2022 11:40:00 AM
From: Nicholas Dedini
Subject: RE: Baldwin R string scale
Thank you, Jon and Robert! Wow, that is very different from what I am seeing in the piano.
I finished removing and measuring the strings and what I found is:
13 - 4
13 1/2 - 4
14 - 6
14 1/2 - 5
15 - 6
15 1/2 - 8
16 - 4
16 1/2 - 4
17 1/2 - 5 (minus one string, as the next size begins on the last string of the last note)
18 - 3
18 1/2 - 5
19 - 4
20 - 2
21 - 1 (plus one string)
Starting with size 18, the last string of that size goes into the next note for one string, then the size changes for the other two strings of the note. This continues for the rest of the piano. This seemed strange to me, but the measurements bear it out. There are also a number of other differences between what has been shared from the book and what was in the piano. I had been using more recent texts as guides, but realized that I had a copy of the Travis Guide to Restringing in my library, and it says that Baldwin scale numbers are always printed on the plate, however that is not the case on the piano I am working on.
I imagine it is not typical, nor a good idea, to have two string sizes within a unison. Should I revert back to the published string scale when I restring it? Or copy what was in the piano? Thoughts welcome and appreciated.
------------------------------
Nicholas Dedini
Arcata CA
Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2022 10:26
From: Robert Callaghan
Subject: Baldwin R string scale
Hi Nicholas.
I used to live in Arcata!
Baldwin R (from A Guide to Restringing)
13 - 6
13 1/2 - 4
14 - 4
14 1/2 - 5
15 - 6
15 1/2 - 6
16 - 6
16 1/2 - 4
17 - 10
18 - 6
19 - 4
20 - 2
Original Message:
Sent: 11/11/2022 10:56:00 PM
From: Nicholas Dedini
Subject: Baldwin R string scale
I am wondering if anyone has a file with the string scale for an older Baldwin R. I have a 1908 Baldwin R in my shop that I am putting new strings on. It is only the second time I have installed new bass strings and the first time to replace all the strings. I measured each plain wire string with a micrometer as I removed them and as I was doing so I came across at least two instances where the string gauge changed in the last string of a three string unison. It has made me not sure of some of my measurements and I am now worried I have some of them incorrect possibly.
I imagine the scaling of the Baldwin R is not something that has changed much over the life of that model being produced, but maybe older American made ones differ from more recent ones?
I also wonder if there is a significant problem with possibly having the wrong gauge on a string or two here and there. Perhaps it was restrung at some point and the strings were not matched perfectly? If anyone has a copy of the scale for the Baldwin R, I would be most grateful.
Nick Dedini
------------------------------
Nicholas Dedini
Arcata CA
------------------------------