With respect, I feel that discussion about ETDs is helpful as so many of us rely on them.
However, commercial interests can get in the way of objectivity at times.
Recently I had a private debate with someone with a vested interest in an aspect of ETDs. I do not subscribe to modern digital devices on mobile phones as the dynamic experience of what I'm hearing, as I'm using ears as well as device, what I'm feeling on the lever and the force that I'm applying and what I see indicated has processing lag. As a result I've come along the line of analogue comparitors, years ago with a dual beam oscilloscope comparing microphone signal to generated frequency, and direct translation of that into formal devices with a 7 segment display going round and round generated by a phase comparator, or with the CTS5, a line of linear dots doing the same.
The young proponent of a device tried to insist to me that all such devices caused delay due to bandpass filters, but clearly didn't understand the idea of a simple phase comparator which doesn't require a bandpass and therefore doesn't generate a delay. For commercial devices to be marketed upon the premises of wrong information or wrong assumptions can then become, even unintentionally, misleading.
When I've used a software device, I've found a lag between a movement on the lever and a change displayed. The immediacy of an analogue phase comparator has given me a feeling of direct control over my tuning and removal of uncertainty. For some instruments with greater dynamic pitch change from strike to sustain this may be of more importance sometimes than others.
Best wishes
David P
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David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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+44 1342 850594
Original Message:
Sent: 3/26/2024 8:48:00 AM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Certain ETD discussion threads moved to Electronic Tuning Device community
Not long ago Mike Morvan posted that he was fully back in business doing high quality key recovering and now adding a NEW Service to his business, that of SS action stack repairs. This was clearly a commercial post, and nothing but a commercial post.
From the standpoint of CURRENT VIEWPOINT he should have been sanctioned immediately. Was he? I doubt it. Personally I'm glad he did post because I needed his serviced and contacted him immediately.
If I declared that I was resuming manufacturing and sale of Bushmasters and Accucauls, Key Bushing Irons, etc. would I be censured? I wonder...what is the policy? Or does the policy depend on WHO is involved and what their personality is like?
People need to grow up all the way around. Sorry...but it needs to be said.
Peter Grey Piano Doctor
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Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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Original Message:
Sent: 03-26-2024 00:47
From: Nicholas Dedini
Subject: Certain ETD discussion threads moved to Electronic Tuning Device community
I agree with Paul. This sets a bad precedent and will lower the overall quality of discussion in this forum. No one is forced to read a thread they are not interested in, but topics relevant to our daily work should not be relegated to much less utilized sub-forums. I regularly skip over threads that do not interest me, but I would like to know what is being discussed and make my own decision. This feels wrong and will negatively affect participation in this forum.
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Nicholas Dedini
Arcata CA
Original Message:
Sent: 03-26-2024 00:01
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Certain ETD discussion threads moved to Electronic Tuning Device community
I fail to see why we are shuffling this topic into a corner, save for some that aren't interested or have a vendetta. Just because there is some inference doesn't mean there is promotion of a product. If someone comes up with a new tool, does that have to be pushed into the "tool" discussion group? It's relevant to all. I agree with Jeoff Sykes. Cutting up all these topic is effectively cutting off the general populace from good information, since not all are subscribed to all the forums.
I say that any discussion of any topic (other than religion, politics, etc) that is piano related should be allowed, no matter who the author is. If it's good information, well researched and useful, why not allow it? This may not be under your control, Gina, but there's something wrong when we can't even talk about something freely, share opinions, and debate the topic. When I write something, I may not just be replying to someone as an individual, but for the benefit of others who may read it. I frankly suspect that some of the objections to Steve's posts are from those who feel he offends them, and don't care if he's introducing some relevant and useful information. They just want him gone. Even if I post something with information that I"ve learned from Steve, I get veiled threats of being banned too.
The Guild is a wonderful organization. The willingness to share information with others is a central theme, most often without charge. Where would we all be if those before us were shuffled off into some less traveled discussion group, perhaps because they were trying to introduce something new that made tuning easier or better? We'd still be using a Stobo Tuners if Mr. Sanderson didn't come up with a Sight-O-Tuner or Accutuner. And his invention was not well received for many years.
All of this smacks of censorship, and I don't like it. We should be able to participate on these forums without fearing repercussions for what we post. My opinion on a topic may be misinformed, wrong, or otherwise useless. But I have a right to voice it, and maybe someone can convince me to change it too. That's what has always attracted me to discussions here on Pianotech. I've been on here since the mid '90's and I've learned a lot. It has been my go-to resource, at least as important as the Journal. And I know that many have jumped ship and gone to other forums because of all the flame wars on here. I have stayed here because everyone here is serious about their profession, enough to join a professional organization and pay dues. I value the opinions on here because I know the people here are not hobbyists like on other forums.
Please, let's keep this forum open and not bow to those who "don't like" the opinions and posts they don't agree with. In particular, Steve has been very careful to keep direct references to his sensor off the board. His posts have been very brief, though I'm sure he'd have a lot more to say if he weren't worried about being removed. Some things he has posted are over many of our heads, technically speaking. Again, not a reason to push him off. Many comments are from our members who appreciate what he's presenting, but are skeptical about some aspects of it or have some doubts. He has asked me to try to answer some of these doubts, so as to avoid "overposting". That's why you might find me jumping in when someone is just getting introduced to this topic.
Please, Gina, know that I'm not jumping on you. I'm simply venting on the topic. No offense intended.
Respectfully,
Paul McCloud
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Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com
Original Message:
Sent: 03-25-2024 21:45
From: Gina Bonfietti
Subject: Certain ETD discussion threads moved to Electronic Tuning Device community
Steve, I apologize; it was 28 times in Pianotech, and the rest were in other forums. You can go to your Profile and see all the comments. The point is it's time to move the discussion on to where it belongs.
Thank you,
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Gina Bonfietti, RPT
Connecticut
Original Message:
Sent: 03-25-2024 21:32
From: Steven Norsworthy
Subject: Certain ETD discussion threads moved to Electronic Tuning Device community
Gina, I did start the thread that had 50 replies in it. I replied 16 times out of the 50 total, and each time it was an answer to a question. It is factually not true what you said, and it results in a type of defamation, and I request your comment be corrected that I posted 50 times. --- Steve
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Steven Norsworthy
Cardiff By The Sea CA
(619) 964-0101
Original Message:
Sent: 03-25-2024 21:00
From: Gina Bonfietti
Subject: Certain ETD discussion threads moved to Electronic Tuning Device community
Patrick, Thank you.
Steve, you have posted/commented over 50 times in less than two months. Some of us feel overwhelmed by it. A one-off tuning question/comment differs from the nonstop posts concerning your product, which some people are interested in, and others are not. At this point, sending it to the Electronic TD community is the right thing to do; those who are interested will follow.
Please don't bother the Executive Director or the President with this they have much more important things to deal with. The Chair of the Committee has spoken, let's respect the work that the committees do for the betterment of the PTG.
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Gina Bonfietti, RPT
Connecticut
Original Message:
Sent: 03-25-2024 17:35
From: Patrick Draine
Subject: Certain ETD discussion threads moved to Electronic Tuning Device community
If you're looking for the most recent discussion threads related to Electronic Tuning Devices, please join the Electronic Tuning Devices community. Most of those threads have been moved there.
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Patrick Draine RPT
Billerica MA
(978) 663-9690
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