Hi Scott:
Some good discussion. Yes, we have different experiences with different tools. These apps and sensors are just tools which you can use if you want to. Some tools you buy don't work well unless you get used to them or modify them. When I first started working with Steve, all we wanted was to try to eliminate the jittery readout in Pianoscope in the upper octaves. I tried it and deemed it unusable. He suggested I persevere, and in the meantime he contacted Frank Illenberger who wrote the app. Over a short while, the app improved, especially implementing the concept of measuring the pitch over a window of time. I began to find that I was getting better at tuning unisons, especially if I did them string by string. Along the way, Steve began to reveal what all the other devices were doing behind the scenes, and how they were not as accurate as Pianoscope, and why. We piano tuners aren't expected to know about this kind of stuff. We're just turning tuning pins and matching tension to make a display read "zero" or whatever. I had used other apps, but always went back to my Accutuner. In fact, I still use it on occasion. After trying several new apps, I found Pianoscope to be user-friendly and intuitive. It's not fancy, but it shows essentially what is going on with the pitch of the string. Using Pianoscope does have a learning curve, and with the Freeze feature, it's even more complex. Tuning with fast, repeated blows is what we're used to. But actually that is not the way these kind of ETD's are supposed to work. They rely upon an initial blow to begin calculating the pitch. A "ground zero" if you will. If it doesn't get that first blow, the calculation is thrown off. I'm still trying to get used to this method, because you have to wait, and then decide how much to move the hammer. Then try again. You have to anticipate what is going to happen when you make a hammer movement, and hope you got it right. The thing is, you can "see" the movement of the string, knowing that you have to set the pin and get stability. It's not as easy as it might appear. I'm not even talking about the sensor. I understand Fred's position as he described his frustration with getting good solid unisons and stability. You have to work harder to get a more perfect result.
Regarding OnlyPure, what I found the most difficult was I couldn't get a consistent readout by hitting the same note twice. I was a beta tester for a few months, and I really tried to like it. At a convention, I went around to all the app vendors to ask their opinion. But when the testing was over, I didn't find I liked it enough to purchase it. Another part was, I couldn't understand how it worked. How can you create intervals if you don't have anything to compare to. The same thing with Veritune. The first notes you tune will start the tuning curve, but then you have to revisit those first notes later.
I'm glad you like OnlyPure, and indeed your tuning sounded very nice. It wasn't a Fazioli, but I could tell you had good unisons. Lovely melody too, BTW.
With all of this movement towards more precise tuning is the fact that many pianos are just bad, their scales are compromised, and they're actually more critical to tune. There are so many anomalies that you wonder if it's even worth the effort to make them sound better. I actually do have a recording of an Acrosonic that I tuned with Pianoscope, and it sounds pretty clean. I tuned a Steinway M this afternoon, and I recorded that also. I have to say that the Steinway was a chore, rebuilt with springy tuning pins. I should have done a pitch raise, but I just added a cent or two as I tuned. It was only a little more than 5 cents flat, but once you miss the first pitch raise, it becomes a drawn-out process. It sounded very clean when I was done, so all's well.
Here's an MP3 of the Acrosonic tuning:
https://soundcloud.com/user-686438857/acro_pscopemp3?si=680780da50304ef9b7fe5a07e7deae18&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing
I don't play the piano, sorry. Just octaves and intervals.
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Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.compavadasa@gmail.com------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 03-25-2024 14:08
From: Scott Kerns
Subject: Demonstration from Tuning: Videos (Non-Commercial)
Thanks Paul!
"I tried OnlyPure for a while but found it difficult to use in practice." Paul M.
How interesting. I found it rather easy to use and super accurate. And yet when others say the same thing about PianoSens (that you've just said about OnlyPure) the attitude seems to be that they're not using it correctly or some other excuse. For you, (if I'm recalling correctly what you've posted) it's not been real easy to adapt to PianoSens but you pretty quickly experienced the benefit of using it, so you persevered and now enjoy using it. Good for you! That's not been the case with everyone although alot of people are sold on it. Does PianoSens work? Of course it does. But everyone's experience is different.
I think everyone should use OnlyPure to produce truly superior tunings, but guess what? They're not going to. And that's okay.
You feel everyone should use PianoSens to produce truly superior tunings, but guess what? They're not going to. And that's okay.
Another point about Stevens recordings. First an anecdote: When I first started tuning I remember tuning my first spinet. With my inexperience I just wasn't able to get it to sound good, not knowing that, well, they really don't sound good no matter what you do. I felt like a failure. Then one day I tuned a nice grand and wow! I thought I was a genius! My point is, it really matters what kind of piano you're tuning to evaluate the results. I agree that Steven has done a fabulous job on his FAZIOLI piano. Let's hear the results on a Baldwin Acrosonic. Now if he can make an Acrosonic sound fabulous, that would be something incredible. And, of course, he wouldn't post the results if it didn't sound fabulous.
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"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, Nebraska
www.thattuningguy.com
Original Message:
Sent: 03-25-2024 13:20
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Demonstration from Tuning: Videos (Non-Commercial)
Very nice! I like the tuning. I tried OnlyPure for a while but found it difficult to use in practice.
Sent from my iPhone
Original Message:
Sent: 3/25/2024 12:59:00 PM
From: Scott Kerns
Subject: RE: Demonstration from Tuning: Videos (Non-Commercial)
Cool! Here's one song from a CD (remember those 😉) that a local artist recorded that I tuned the piano for: Semplice
This was in 2012 and I used Tunic OnlyPure. I'd like to add that the piano is an old Everett grand that was rebuilt when they first got it, but the hammers are quite worn. She LOVES the way it sounds, so I haven't messed with the hammers other than a little voicing here and there. I've never been able to find the serial number but the piano is probably a good 100 years old by now.
Enjoy!
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"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, Nebraska
www.thattuningguy.com
Original Message:
Sent: 03-25-2024 12:00
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Demonstration from Tuning: Videos (Non-Commercial)
He was deplatformed for a month, supposedly for promoting a product. He hasn't said a word about it, but is simply presenting the result of using it along with an app. He's able to achieve accuracy that would be hard to duplicate by ear, so here's a demonstration what he's been able to do. Most of us have decades of experience tuning. He's been tuning his piano less than a year. Most people who dare to tune their own piano are abject failures, as we know. Why would you dismiss what he's doing? Never mind his playing or which pieces he chose, or the style of tuning (pure 12th), is it not clear sounding? Why not record your tuning of a nice concert grand and post it here? Let's compare.
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Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com
Original Message:
Sent: 03-25-2024 09:46
From: Adam Schulte-Bukowinski
Subject: Demonstration from Tuning: Videos (Non-Commercial)
Unclear why you felt the need to include (non-commercial) in the title, since this clearly seems to be an advertisement of the results of tuning with PianoSens.
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Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
Piano Technician
Glenn Korff School of Music
University of Nebraska at Lincoln
Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2024 14:18
From: Steven Norsworthy
Subject: Demonstration from Tuning: Videos (Non-Commercial)
Demonstration from Tuning: Videos (Non-Commercial)
During the tuning process, the 'Pure 12th' method was followed and the unisons were tuned to within 0.1 ¢.
Below are two video links demonstrating the 'results' after freshly tuning:
1) The first link has two excerpts: from Chopin Op. 48, No. 1, the 'double-octave' passage. The excerpt that follows is from Brahms Op. 79, No. 2, the opening exposition.
https://youtu.be/e4Qhy0yPCh0
2) The next link is meant as an 'aural check,' playing parallel 5-partial chords: In the left hand, playing the octaves, and in the right hand playing partials 3,4,5 (a 2nd-inversion major triad). Playing them chromatically starting at A0 and ending up at C8.
https://youtu.be/8hmVoHHfxrk
Respectfully submitted,
Steve
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Steven Norsworthy
Cardiff By The Sea CA
(619) 964-0101
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