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Every Note Perfectly In Tune

  • 1.  Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Posted 03-01-2023 09:58

    🤖 Warning, warning! This is a long post! 

    I had a customer this week make a request of me. He sat at the piano, spread his arms over the keyboard and instructed me that he wanted every note to be perfectly in tune over the whole scale of the piano. It seemed as though this was a new idea to him. I thought at first maybe he was joking but I quickly stopped myself from laughing. I then asked him, "What is it you think I do?". He looked at me and said, "I have no idea!". 

    Now, some background. I've known this person for many years although not well. I've tuned various pianos for him, none of them were very nice and always needed pitch raises. The piano at his house that I tuned maybe three times, was a Wurlitzer spinet and it was usually in different houses (he moves a lot). He's probably about 60 years old and has played piano since his childhood. He's a very good player! 

    This particular piano I was tuning for him this week was a different one. It was his mothers and it's the one he played growing up. It's a 1968 Baldwin Acrosonic. This model is a little taller so it looks like a console but has the spinet action. It's in very good shape and, for an Acrosonic, has a nice sound and even though many of the hammers are sluggish, he LOVES the way it plays and feels. He's had it for 10 years or so and is just now having it tuned. I tuned it November 1, 2022 and did a pitch raise on it. Humidity was about 50% then. He played it after I was done and thought it sounded great. We've had a very strange winter here, as many places have. One day it's 5 degrees and the next day it's 60 degrees!! Just a roller-coaster. This time when I tuned it the humidity was 25%. So, no surprise at all that it was out of tune! 

    We talked for a bit, and I explained some things about piano tuning like unisons and how we work to get "every note perfectly in tune", at least with itself. He then wanted to go over the lowest single bass strings. Most of them sounded fine to him except, if I remember correctly, the F# octave. He wanted it tuned much lower. It was really beating! But, as I told him, you're the one who has to hear it. He played the piano and seemed satisfied with it and honestly I felt I did a fabulous job on it. If that tuning hadn't satisfied him, I'm not sure what I would have done. 

    For some reason I'm having a hard time letting this go. Being instructed that he wanted, "Every note perfectly in tune." and feeling he needed to tell me that, keeps going through my head. And the person saying it, having no idea what he's talking about! Maybe he actually does know what he's talking about but didn't want to say, "Every tuning you've done for me sucked!" 

    There is one more detail. His church had a used Yamaha grand recently donated to them and my tunings on it have been just great. He loves how it sounds! 

    I know there is no answer to this situation but it felt good to write it out to people who would understand. Thanks for listening!



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    "That Tuning Guy"
    Scott Kerns
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    www.thattuningguy.com
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  • 2.  RE: Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2023 10:22

    Scott,

    I have been experiencing more and more older people who's hearing is changing.  I've even had one very long time quite accomplished pianist  hearing octaves a half step flat when in tune to them.  It's very interesting to delicately suggest they have a friend listen to the tuning when I am done to compare friend against owner.  Coming from me is only a confrontational situation.

    Tim 



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    Tim Coates RPT
    Sioux Falls SD
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  • 3.  RE: Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2023 10:25

    Scott,

    Very interesting!

    My question is did he play these STRETCHED octaves together, or does he tend to "roll" them?

    Additionally, you remember OnlyPure, right? :😉  That program really stretches out those low bass notes, quite a bit beyond what you or I would generally do. I just wonder...

    Edit: Ditto what Tim said. Also, always always always check for hearing aids, and even if they are not visible. I find that many who wear them have no idea that they will distort piano sound. They have to enlightened. (Not all but many).

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 4.  RE: Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2023 10:44
    Scott:

    A nice change of pace story for this group. What makes our work interesting is the "interesting" folks we work for. Thanks.  

    Hope life in Lincoln is treating you well. And glad to see you're staying active with PTG. It's been 9 years since I left Lincoln and moved to Tucson, but I still get the Lincoln paper and think of my former life often.

    Stay active. Keep writing. I always enjoy seeing your posts. Unlike my long emails, yours are usually short. A blessing.

    Richard West
    Former resident, Lincoln, NE





  • 5.  RE: Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Member
    Posted 03-01-2023 11:27

    Very interesting and not unusual. Its pretty difficult to perfectly tune anything and a spinet is no exception. Often I refer customers to The Piano Book or the PTG site to get some ideas on piano construction, tuning issues etc. Customers who do not keep up with regular tunings are going to notice how different the piano sounds after a tuning or how one note does not sound "right". The subject of hearing is touchy. I am not sure why hearing tests are done so infrequently . I feel they should be done with regular physical exams so as to identify hearing loss or hearing issues. I recently found out I have age related hearing loss in the high frequencies. Such loss is common with aging but certain medications both OTC and prescription can affect hearing. Occupational exposure, workshop noise etc can affect hearing so it is worth testing hearing early on.



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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  • 6.  RE: Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Posted 03-01-2023 13:52

    Hello to you too Richard! Every time the temperature dips below zero or we get a big snow, I can't help but think of you in sunny Arizona 🌞 I drive by your old house all the time and again think of you. 

    Peter - Yes, I thought about that. I use PianoMeter with P12's style, but it doesn't stretch the bass quite as much as OnlyPure, so assuming there's a next time, I may try that. He did play the octaves together and they all sounded fine to him except that one. It was really beating but there you have it... 🤔



    ------------------------------
    "That Tuning Guy"
    Scott Kerns
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    www.thattuningguy.com
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  • 7.  RE: Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2023 12:29

    Hi Scott,

    As others have noted hearing loss (distorted perception) may be part of the scenario you're dealing with, but there's "just so much more!" His notion of what a properly tuned piano may well be distorted (imprinted) from his years of playing untuned pianos. He's a good candidate for the PTG literature on how often a piano should be tuned (note those that suggest 4 times a year!), pitch adjustment, and humidity control.

    And, of course, there are so many mismatched partials in the scales of Wurlitzer and Baldwin spinets. 

    Certainly makes one appreciate "regular customers"!



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    Patrick Draine RPT
    Billerica MA
    (978) 663-9690
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  • 8.  RE: Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Posted 03-01-2023 19:46

    Scott,

    I hear you!  I will occasionally get a customer who wonders why the C at the top end of the piano doesn't sound so good on their Kimball spinet. I want to tell them that it is because it is a spinet and nothing really sounds good on a spinet, but I bite my tongue and  I tell them that the hammer it is basically just striking part of the cast iron plate and just barely striking the strings.



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    PATRICK GREENE
    OWNER
    Knoxville TN
    (865) 384-6582
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  • 9.  RE: Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-05-2023 14:28
    Scott said, "His church had a used Yamaha grand recently donated to them and my tunings on it have been just great. He loves how it sounds!"

    Maybe he expects the Wurlitzer to sound like the Yamaha did?

    That's where a conversation about brand, age, condition, size, model, etc. come into play.

    It's good to reach out to friends and colleagues when something is bothering you :-)

    Ashley Turner, RPT





  • 10.  RE: Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Member
    Posted 03-05-2023 14:56

    Ashley makes a great point. The Baldwin acro is not a Yamaha grand. If he is fixated on C8 show him the C8 on the two pianos, how short the strings are etc. The high frequency may be beyond his hearing range if in fact the hammer is even hitting the string. You could slide the action on the grand in a little to get C8 to hit the plate .

    Another suggestion is if you have an accutuner you could demonstrate how sharp or flat a note is from the calculated tuning. There is also a way to produce the sound of each note of the Accutuner using a speaker and using that sound as a reference point.

    My Sanderson Accu-Fork is quite useful in showing customer what the piano should match if it is at 440. This is very valuable when trying to explain pitch raises and how "sour" the piano is . You play A4 as you slide the slider flat and the sour tone gets less and less . 



    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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  • 11.  RE: Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-06-2023 10:33

    This reminded me of a tuning I did about a year ago. A nice Yamaha grand. The customer called me the next day and insisted that I had tuned the piano a whole step sharp. At first I was speechless. He was clearly upset about this so I was careful in responding. Once I picked my jaw up off the floor I explained how surprising this would be. Raising the pitch that much would have required multiple passes, lots of extra time, and possibly quite a few broken strings. I offered to go back to check it, but first asked him what caused him to conclude that it was so sharp. Well - his next door neighbor had come over with his clarinet so they could play duets and "it sounded terrible." I explained to him that the clarinet is a Bb transposing instrument and that was the end of it!

    The moral of the story is never underestimate the potential ignorance of your customer (or their neighbor's). So much of what we do comes down to translating what they are saying into what they really mean.  

      



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    Gerry Johnston
    Haverhill, MA
    gj@gjpianotuner.com
    www.gjpianotuner.com
    (978) 372-2250
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  • 12.  RE: Every Note Perfectly In Tune

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-06-2023 11:28
    Gerry, I had a similar experience with a woodwind player years ago. I tuned our concert hall grand in preparation for an upcoming sax recital. The saxophone prof came to my office after he had been to the recital hall and said the piano was way off. I said to myself, "Surely, close enough for jazz."

    I had tuned the piano aurally, but I had used my ETD to set the A. I checked the piano with my ETD and it measured right on A440. But, I was suspicious, so I pulled out my low-tech check-my A440 tuning fork. The piano was considerably off with the fork. Which pitch source was right? I checked the fork against the ETD-way off. 

    I retuned the piano to the fork. As it turned out, my ETD had malfunctioned. I had to send it in for service.

    Another brief related story happened to an older technician who had basically lost hearing in the top two octaves. One day he neglected to change the note shifting and the top two octaves ended up being 1/2 step flat. How he didn't notice that even if he was deaf is a mystery. He would have to be moving those top notes a long way to make the pitches a 1/2 step higher or lower. 

    The message in both stories is be sure your ETD is functioning properly, i.e., keep it serviced, and be sure you're using it properly, i.e., be sure to read the instruction manual/app carefully and review it occasionally.

    Richard West