CAUT

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

Hi Robert-

Does the pitch of the false beat remain constant as you try to tune it out? If so it may be a  longitudinal mode sound, somewhat common in the low tenor of large grands in several brands. Not much to be done short of using different wire, perhaps more noticeable to us as tuners than end users. 

YMMV

David

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

------------------------------
Robert Callaghan RPT
Reno NV
(775) 287-2140
------------------------------

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

I won't contradict anyone here, but occasionally problems are caused by too much string treatment.  I often have good luck with "unseating" the string, or tapping it gently in the direction away from its bend.

I have also cleaned up bad bass and tenor strings by just giving them a good tug near the middle of the string.

Some problems are just baffling mysteries.  I had a dead middle B string on a Baldwin R that wouldn't resolve no matter what was done to it and no obvious (or non-obvious) cause to the problem, and I tried for years.

------------------------------
Blaine Hebert RPT
Duarte CA
(626) 390-0512

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2024 18:06
From: Robert Callaghan
Subject: False beat in lower plain wire.

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

------------------------------
Robert Callaghan RPT
Reno NV
(775) 287-2140
------------------------------

My first diagnostic would be to mute all NSL sections of wire (rear and front) with masking tape and see what happens. Takes two minutes at most. Process of elimination. 

Even the high undamped speaking lengths too. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-28-2024 02:11
From: Blaine Hebert
Subject: False beat in lower plain wire.

I won't contradict anyone here, but occasionally problems are caused by too much string treatment.  I often have good luck with "unseating" the string, or tapping it gently in the direction away from its bend.

I have also cleaned up bad bass and tenor strings by just giving them a good tug near the middle of the string.

Some problems are just baffling mysteries.  I had a dead middle B string on a Baldwin R that wouldn't resolve no matter what was done to it and no obvious (or non-obvious) cause to the problem, and I tried for years.

------------------------------
Blaine Hebert RPT
Duarte CA
(626) 390-0512

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2024 18:06
From: Robert Callaghan
Subject: False beat in lower plain wire.

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

------------------------------
Robert Callaghan RPT
Reno NV
(775) 287-2140
------------------------------

My first diagnostic would be to mute all NSL sections of wire (rear and front) with masking tape and see what happens. Takes two minutes at most. Process of elimination. 

Even the high undamped speaking lengths too. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-28-2024 02:11
From: Blaine Hebert
Subject: False beat in lower plain wire.

I won't contradict anyone here, but occasionally problems are caused by too much string treatment.  I often have good luck with "unseating" the string, or tapping it gently in the direction away from its bend.

I have also cleaned up bad bass and tenor strings by just giving them a good tug near the middle of the string.

Some problems are just baffling mysteries.  I had a dead middle B string on a Baldwin R that wouldn't resolve no matter what was done to it and no obvious (or non-obvious) cause to the problem, and I tried for years.

------------------------------
Blaine Hebert RPT
Duarte CA
(626) 390-0512

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2024 18:06
From: Robert Callaghan
Subject: False beat in lower plain wire.

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

------------------------------
Robert Callaghan RPT
Reno NV
(775) 287-2140
------------------------------

My first diagnostic would be to mute all NSL sections of wire (rear and front) with masking tape and see what happens. Takes two minutes at most. Process of elimination. 

Even the high undamped speaking lengths too. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 01-28-2024 02:11
From: Blaine Hebert
Subject: False beat in lower plain wire.

I won't contradict anyone here, but occasionally problems are caused by too much string treatment.  I often have good luck with "unseating" the string, or tapping it gently in the direction away from its bend.

I have also cleaned up bad bass and tenor strings by just giving them a good tug near the middle of the string.

Some problems are just baffling mysteries.  I had a dead middle B string on a Baldwin R that wouldn't resolve no matter what was done to it and no obvious (or non-obvious) cause to the problem, and I tried for years.

------------------------------
Blaine Hebert RPT
Duarte CA
(626) 390-0512

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2024 18:06
From: Robert Callaghan
Subject: False beat in lower plain wire.

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

------------------------------
Robert Callaghan RPT
Reno NV
(775) 287-2140
------------------------------

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

The article False Beats in Piano Strings – Part I by Jim Ellis,RPT, John Rhodes,RPT, James Arledge,RPT, and Darrell Fandrich,RPT in the August 2008 Journal describes false beats caused by the angle of the residual string coil arch relative to the plane of the hammer strike. 

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

My question is: "Are musicians complaining about this 'false beat' or is it just something that annoys the tuner/tech?"

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

The article False Beats in Piano Strings – Part I by Jim Ellis,RPT, John Rhodes,RPT, James Arledge,RPT, and Darrell Fandrich,RPT in the August 2008 Journal describes false beats caused by the angle of the residual string coil arch relative to the plane of the hammer strike. 

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

My question is: "Are musicians complaining about this 'false beat' or is it just something that annoys the tuner/tech?"

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

The article False Beats in Piano Strings – Part I by Jim Ellis,RPT, John Rhodes,RPT, James Arledge,RPT, and Darrell Fandrich,RPT in the August 2008 Journal describes false beats caused by the angle of the residual string coil arch relative to the plane of the hammer strike. 

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

My question is: "Are musicians complaining about this 'false beat' or is it just something that annoys the tuner/tech?"

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

The article False Beats in Piano Strings – Part I by Jim Ellis,RPT, John Rhodes,RPT, James Arledge,RPT, and Darrell Fandrich,RPT in the August 2008 Journal describes false beats caused by the angle of the residual string coil arch relative to the plane of the hammer strike. 

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

My question is: "Are musicians complaining about this 'false beat' or is it just something that annoys the tuner/tech?"

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

The article False Beats in Piano Strings – Part I by Jim Ellis,RPT, John Rhodes,RPT, James Arledge,RPT, and Darrell Fandrich,RPT in the August 2008 Journal describes false beats caused by the angle of the residual string coil arch relative to the plane of the hammer strike. 

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

My question is: "Are musicians complaining about this 'false beat' or is it just something that annoys the tuner/tech?"

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

The article False Beats in Piano Strings – Part I by Jim Ellis,RPT, John Rhodes,RPT, James Arledge,RPT, and Darrell Fandrich,RPT in the August 2008 Journal describes false beats caused by the angle of the residual string coil arch relative to the plane of the hammer strike. 

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

I am trying to "twist" my mind around all this. I just finished studying the two articles from '08. As I read them, twist is neither a good or a bad thing, i.e, has little of no effect on false beats. However, it is important, in the longer and lower tension strings, to make the hitchpin loop parallel or perpendicular to the residual curl of the wire. So my takeaway is that it is best to cut the wire to length, then let the wire recurl before making the hitchpin bend.  Is that the understanding of others?

The articles say that In the upper treble, false beats are more often the result of bad terminations- particularly bridgepins located in holes that have become flared at the top allowing the pin to vibrate excessively as well as strings that are not seated precisely to the bridgecap. This is exactly my experience. 

By the way, I have had some good luck in reducing/eliminating upper treble false beats by scaling to keep tension high as possible (in the 170s and 180s). Inharmonicity goes up somewhat but I don't care about that so much. My theory is that the added tension helps with all of the above issues. Am I on the right track?

My question is: "Are musicians complaining about this 'false beat' or is it just something that annoys the tuner/tech?"

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

The article False Beats in Piano Strings – Part I by Jim Ellis,RPT, John Rhodes,RPT, James Arledge,RPT, and Darrell Fandrich,RPT in the August 2008 Journal describes false beats caused by the angle of the residual string coil arch relative to the plane of the hammer strike. 

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

I am trying to "twist" my mind around all this. I just finished studying the two articles from '08. As I read them, twist is neither a good or a bad thing, i.e, has little of no effect on false beats. However, it is important, in the longer and lower tension strings, to make the hitchpin loop parallel or perpendicular to the residual curl of the wire. So my takeaway is that it is best to cut the wire to length, then let the wire recurl before making the hitchpin bend.  Is that the understanding of others?

The articles say that In the upper treble, false beats are more often the result of bad terminations- particularly bridgepins located in holes that have become flared at the top allowing the pin to vibrate excessively as well as strings that are not seated precisely to the bridgecap. This is exactly my experience. 

By the way, I have had some good luck in reducing/eliminating upper treble false beats by scaling to keep tension high as possible (in the 170s and 180s). Inharmonicity goes up somewhat but I don't care about that so much. My theory is that the added tension helps with all of the above issues. Am I on the right track?

My question is: "Are musicians complaining about this 'false beat' or is it just something that annoys the tuner/tech?"

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

The article False Beats in Piano Strings – Part I by Jim Ellis,RPT, John Rhodes,RPT, James Arledge,RPT, and Darrell Fandrich,RPT in the August 2008 Journal describes false beats caused by the angle of the residual string coil arch relative to the plane of the hammer strike. 

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert

Hello.

I am experiencing something for the second time.  Two different pianos.  Piano 1 is a Steinway model D from 1998.  Piano 2 is a Model B, purchased last year, so maybe it's 2022.  

Piano 1 has a pronounced high pitched false beat in one plain wire string, F2.  It is the left side string, lowest of the plain wire strings.  Piano 2 is the same sound in F#2, but on the right side.  The other two strings of the unisons are fine.  I just can't get the "errant" string to blend with the other two.  

I have seated the strings on the bridge, tapped the bridge pin, in case it was a little loose.  I leveled the strings and mated the hammer to the strings. I also measured the strings with a digital micrometer to be sure they were the same gauge.  They were the same, but that's what is sounds like, how when two unisons won't match when one of the strings is a different gauge.  The fundamental is tuned, but the harmonics don't line up.  Worse than that, there is an actual high pitched beat even on its own.

I'm down to thinking the strings are flawed in some way, perhaps got a kink in them when being strung, or perhaps a flaw in the agraffe.  If it's the string all I can think of is changing the string.  I don't look forward to having to pull the strings up every few days, though.  And changing the agraffe seems pretty radical since I don't know for sure that is the source or the problem. 

Aso, I wondered if the agraffe was square to the strings.  

I didn't want to do anything as an experiment, so any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Robert