Hi, Bill....
Sadly, Hurt found the 51st way....
Cheers!
Horace
On 5/8/2024 12:40 PM, Bill Ballard via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
> Mo Yang went: "???? ... no matter what your preferred A there are still many ways to play out of tune ..."
>
>
> Reminds me of a favorite movie quote:
>
> "There are fifty ways to screw up on this job. If you can think of twenty of them, you're a genius......and you ain't no genius"
> ...........Mickey Rourke to William Hurt, in "Body Heat", discussing arson.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> William Ballard RPT
> WBPS
> Saxtons River VT
> 802-869-9107
>
> "Our lives contain a thousand springs
> and dies if one be gone
> Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
> should keep in tune so long."
> ...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
> ------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------
> Original Message:
> Sent: 05-03-2024 13:19
> From: Ryan Sowers
> Subject: Floating Confessions
>
>
> "I don't float the pitch for a variety of reasons. First, I'm hired to tune the piano, and 440 is the standard pitch."
>
> I addressed this issue in my first post, but it was a link so folks may have not actually followed it. I'll cut and paste it here. The Gist is that the very best string players and many concert masters rarely (if ever) use A440.
>
>
> Don't get me wrong - there's nothing wrong with A440. You could look at A440 as being the center of a bullseye that is about 4 cents wide. Moreover, at this point in 2024, I see A441 as being as legit as 440 unless I'm tuning for a recording that requires A440 specifically. Again - PTG requires that pitch be set at between 439.75 and 440.25 to be considered "perfect" or 100%.
>
>
> I question the idea that clients hire us to tune the piano at A440. Clients have almost no understanding of what is involved with professional piano work. They hire us because they want their piano to sound and play more beautifully.
> The Violin Channel recently caught up with 30+ of the world's top string players to find out ???
> 'What is your preferred tuning A-pitch frequency?"
>
> The Violin Channel recently caught up with 30+ of the world's top string players to find out ???
>
> Violin Virtuoso Itzhak Perlman:
>
> "I like A=442 as it is slightly on the sharp side, but A=440 is fine also ... what's important is that everything is in tune ..."
>
> British Cello Soloist Steven Isserlis:
>
> "I don't mind, I go from A=430 up to A=443 ... just not down as far as A=415 as I'd find that distracting ..."
>
> German Violin Soloist David Garrett:
>
> "Normally I go for A=442 ... I know in Berlin the orchestras are quite high at A=444 ... but A=442 I think is a good medium ..."
>
> Canadian Violin Soloist James Ehnes:
>
> "Anywhere between A=440 and A=442 is fine with me ... my violin is set up to work best at that range of tension, and that is what my ear is most used to ... below A=440 starts to sound and feel "soggy" to me, and above A=442 can seem shrill ..."
>
> Korean-American Violin Soloist Sarah Chang:
>
> "A=442 ... it keeps my violin sounding bright without over-stressing the wind and brass players ..."
>
> Australian Soloist, VC Artist Violinist Ray Chen:
>
> "A=442 ... it makes everything sound sweeter ..."
>
> VC Young Artist Violinist William Hagen:
>
> "I think A=442 is great ... I really don't like a flat A, but when the A is too sharp it can make everything sound really severe and tight ..."
>
> Berlin Philharmonic Concertmaster, VC Artist Violinist Noah Bendix-Balgley:
>
> "At the moment, I'm most comfortable with A=442 - a compromise between higher European A-frequencies, and lower American ones .... I feel if the A gets too high (A=444) it pinches the resonance of the instrument ..."
>
> Milwaukee Symphony Concertmaster, Frank Almond:
>
> "I like a little over A=441 ... the funny thing is that I've noticed most groups that tune to A=440 or A=441 end up playing a little over A=441 anyway ... in Europe it always seems like the sky's the limit???..."
>
> Dallas Symphony Concertmaster, Alexander Kerr:
>
> "A=441 ... it lends just enough brightness to the sound without losing the sensation of being able to dig into the string..."
>
> Canadian Violinist, VC Artist Nikki Chooi:
>
> "A=441 ... it's not too high, not too low - just right ..."
>
> American Soloist, VC Artist Violinist Stefan Jackiw:
>
> "I find that this changes with humidity ... during dry weather I prefer A=440 ... during humid weather I prefer A=442 or even higher ..."
>
> VC Artist Cellist Kian Soltani:
>
> "A=442 ... simply cause it's the best ..."
>
> Time For Three Violinist, VC Artist Charles Yang:
>
> "I'm currently on tour in Europe and the band tunes to A=442 - I like it! ... it makes my instrument sound brighter ..."
>
> French Violinist Augustin Dumay:
>
> "I prefer the A=440 which is used in England, as it seems to me musically balanced, and protective of an exaggerated tension for the instruments ..."
>
> British Violin Soloist Nicola Benedetti:
>
> "The UK A=440 is a little flat for my liking but I have to stay flexible, otherwise I'd be in trouble ... I don't have perfect pitch so the adjustment is less painful for me than it can be for some ..."
>
> Canadian Violin Soloist Lara St. John:
>
> "I find A=441.5 to be my perfect A - but I am pretty adjustable ... A=441.5 sounds really good on a violin, and it's kind of mid-Atlantic ..."
>
> American Violin Soloist Anne Akiko Meyers:
>
> "A=442 ... it's a happy place that's just higher than 441 but lower than 443 ..."
>
> Russian-American Violin Soloist Philippe Quint:
>
> "My preferred pitch is A=442 ... however I now frequently ask to meet with the Principal Oboe before the concert to get the orchestra's "Official A" ... so not to spend 5 minutes re-tuning my violin onstage ..."
>
> Violinist Rachel Barton Pine:
>
> "I most frequently perform at A=440, 441, 442 and 415, with occasional forays into A=430 and even A=392 ... A=440 has always been my favorite because of its resonance .... trying A=460 is on my bucket list though ..."
>
> VC Artist Violinist Benjamin Beilman:
>
> "I'm not so picky ??? probably somewhere between A=441 and A=442 ... A=440 sometimes feels a little sleepy and anything over A=443 feels over caffeinated ..."
>
> VC Artist Violinist Angelo Xiang Yu:
>
> "This particular violin likes somewhere between A=441.5 and A=442 .... I find it gives the most natural ring and vibration ... but hey! Most of the time I don't get to choose ..."
>
> Cellist Zuill Bailey:
>
> "My preference is A=441 ... I find that harmonics ring low and I want to make sure that nothing sounds flat ..."
>
> Violin Soloist Vadim Gluzman:
>
> "I am blessed (or cursed?) with perfect pitch so it is a sensitive subject ... but I am happy between A=440 up to A=443/444 ... string players often tend to like higher tuning, but it often causes our intonation to go quite a bit "north" ..."
>
> Violin Soloist Arnaud Sussmann:
>
> "I like A=441 ... it's a nice middle ground between the very high "A" people tune to in Europe and the standard A=440 ... I feel instruments start sounding a bit under too much tension when the pitch rises above A=443 ..."
>
> New England Conservatory Faculty Member, Violinist Paul Biss:
>
> "I have learned long ago not to insist on one ... in general, though, I prefer not to go higher than A=442 ... I think the instrument rings better that way ..."
>
> Curtis Institute Faculty Member, Violinist Ida Kavafian:
>
> "I think we should be able to adjust to any pitch ... I can't stand when students make an excuse for the A not being where they expect - it's a poor excuse for bad intonation ... however, when I'm in charge, I ask for A=441 ..."
>
> Veteran New England Conservatory Cello Pedagogue, Laurence Lesser:
>
> "I don't have perfect pitch, but since that's kind of like "hearing" colours, I've gotten used to A=441 ... above and below just sounds different .... A=441 is the colour I like ..."
>
> VC Artist Violinist Paul Huang:
>
> "A=442 or A=443 if possible ... for me it just rings better when the A is a higher frequency and it sounds more brilliant ...."
>
> VC Artist Violinist Tessa Lark:
>
> "Flexibility in this realm is important so I don't have a preference ... but my natural A frequency when I sing is A=432 .... the perfect pitch in me was relieved to find out that many of my favorite composers (Bach, Mozart, Debussy & Chopin) wrote their masterpieces using 432Hz tuning ..."
>
> VC Artist Violinist Bella Hristova:
>
> "I like A=441 ... I think the violin sounds really brilliant at this frequency ..."
>
> VC Young Artist Violinist Kerson Leong:
>
> "When I practice alone, I always lean towards a lower A pitch for no apparent reason ..."
>
> VC Artist Violinist Fedor Rudin:
>
> "I don't have one, I feel as comfortable with A=443 as with A=415 ... but the tuning does help create a different atmosphere and sound projection ...."
>
> VC Artist Violinist Igor Pikayzen:
>
> "I don't swear by a particular pitch frequency, and when you travel you obviously graciously accept the A that the orchestra tunes to .... but if I would have to choose I'd go with A=442 or A=443 - for me, it just sounds more in focus to my ear!"
>
> VC Young Artist Violinist In Mo Yang:
>
> "???? ... no matter what your preferred A there are still many ways to play out of tune ..."
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Ryan Sowers RPT
> Olympia WA
> (360) 480-5648
> ------------------------------
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 05-03-2024 10:09
> From: Scott Cole
> Subject: Floating Confessions
>
> I don't float the pitch for a variety of reasons. First, I'm hired to tune the piano, and 440 is the standard pitch. One can argue that the typical customer can't tell the difference, but that opens the door to other kinds of corner cutting, such as ignoring the top and bottom notes: "Why bother? She'll never know, and anyway she said she just play hymns at the holidays."
>
> If I get to a new customer and the piano is 10c flat, leaving it there means I'm making assumptions about many things, such as the stability of the customer's home, and the structure/stability of the piano. Sure, maybe that low pitch will bounce up with the next season, but how can I be sure? Right now in Oregon the weather is cool and rainy. But there are years where the spring is very hot and dry-or it goes back and forth dramatically.
>
> That leads to other sticky questions: what exactly quantifies as a raise? Everyone has different opinions. For some, 3 cents low, for others, 10 cents. Who is to say?
>
> Another issue I have with floating the pitch is the simple fact that pitch doesn't rise or fall evenly across the range. Typically, the bass changes the least and the high treble changes the most. Often, I'll come to a piano with the bass right in tune but the middle a few cents flat. So what am I floating-the bass, middle, or treble? Something will have to change.
>
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 5/2/2024 3:19:00 PM
> From: Benjamin Sanchez
> Subject: RE: Floating Confessions
>
>
> Very good thoughts Wim. I agree on all your points.
>
>
>
> I don't float pitch for one simple reason. If the piano isn't in a stable environment, how am I supposed to know that if I'm the one constantly changing the pitch at which I tune to? Is it -10?? because of the room, or because I put it there? I've had other (very good) technicians tell me that this piano or that piano isn't stable. But I find that when it's tune to a consistent 440, things magically start to stabilize more often than not.
>
>
>
> My only exception is where certain orchestras need a 442 tuning. I'm ok doing that, but it will cost them extra if the piano's not already at 442. But that's it. Like Wim said, if they're going to be difficult for the sake of being difficult, they can find someone else. I actually like working for discerning clients, but there's a difference between being discerning and being difficult.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
> Piano Technician / Artisan
> (256) 947-9999
>
www.professional-piano-services.com <http:
www.professional-piano-services.com="">>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 05-02-2024 13:11
> From: Wim Blees
> Subject: Floating Confessions
>
>
> In response to Ryan, here are my thoughts. First, I don't float. All my pianos are tuned to 440. I also do not cater to extraordinary demands of clients. By that I mean, if a client wants a temperament or stretch that I don't like, let him/her get another tuner. I don't mind losing a client he/she doesn't like my tuning. That doesn't mean I won't try to satisfy the demands of a client that has a legitimate concern. I have a very demanding "boss" at the university. She has a very good ear and will tell me when a note is off or needs to be voiced. But the piano is tuned within my parameters, and I will work very hard to achieve that goal. But to try to "stretch" the tuning that's out of my comfort zone, no. The reason I don't cater to special demands is because I really don't believe that they hear it. I think they are being demanding just because they think it will make them look important or exceptional. I might be wrong, but that's how I feel. Case in point. Back in St. !
Louis I
> tuned a piano for piano teacher from Russia with an old German upright. After I tuned here piano the first time, she plucked each string of a unison, starting at about C5, and told me the middle was flat, or the right string was sharp, etc. I worked like a dog to get those unisons in tune. This process would take another 30 - 45 minutes, but I only charged her the same amount as a regular tuning. After the 4th time I tuned her piano, I purposely left three or four string slightly flat to see if she could indeed hear the difference. Guess what. She totally missed those strings. She was just doing this plucking to make herself look like she was better than me. So I told her that from now on, if she wanted to check every unison, she would have to pay extra. That's the last time I saw her. I learned a long time ago that you can't satisfy every customer. For whatever reason, it could be a personality thing, or I said something wrong, or she/he didn't like my tuning, some cust!
omers don't
> want you to tune their piano again. And I'm OK with that. The bottom line is, do the best you can, be as nice as possible, and hope the customer will call you back. If they get too demanding for a reason that I don't like, I let them go, and move on.
> Thank you, Ryan, for opening this conversation. Wim
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 5/2/2024 10:58:00 AM
> From: Ryan Sowers
> Subject: Floating Confessions
>
>
>
> I was happy to see the discussion around the error in using F3 to set pitch morph into a discussion regarding floating pitch. It is a subject near and dear to my heart.
>
> The way I think about it now is this: I not only float pitch, I float the entire tuning.
>
> When I first began my tuning career, I had very rigid ideas about my tuning. I was strictly aural for at least the first decade. I was dedicated to a "textbook" PTG test type of tuning. As the years progressed, however, I came across certain clients who seemed to want something different. One of the most obvious cases was tuning for the late jazz artist Jessica Williams. She really emphasized that she wanted a lot of stretch in the tuning and thought my first "textbook" tuning sounded sharp in the bass and flat in the treble. Graciously trying to accommodate her led to me prepping the pianos for two of her albums. She was challenging but also rewarding to work for. And she did indeed like a LOT of stretch, especially on the ends.
>
> One summer left the octave spread particularly wide, so I thought I'd find out what the limits of stretch were that she could tolerate. I left the piano with octaves that had a clear beat and very busy thirds. It took her less than a day let me know that I had gone too far!
>
> I had another client, a physicist with a 7' Schimmel who requested 2:1 octaves throughout the entire compass. That also proved to be fairly challenging and also educational.
>
> The fact that all the ETD's have various stretch settings to choose from, shows that there is not a specific amount of stretch that is universally agreed on as perfect. In my estimation, this is one of the great ironies of the ETD: It is extremely precise at choosing high resolution pitch targets within a system that is somewhat squishy and flexible. It can be akin to adjusting pixels in a 1200 dpi image that will be shown on a 600 dpi screen.
>
> This squish factor can certainly be used to a technician's advantage if you are the type who attempts to serve your client's best interests by making the pianos as nice as you can for the time that you have. This is opposed to what Darrel Fandrich used to describe as the "tune and run" tuner. In other words, looking for opportunities to shave time off tuning to address touch and tone issues. And it is rare to find a piano without touch and tone issues.
>
> Experience over time helps one learn what the limits are. Like everything in piano work, you have to overdo and underdo things in order to discover where the sweet spots lie. Discovering how far you can reasonably and professionally float the pitch and the stretch the octaves is one of the most powerful tools a technician can develop.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Ryan Sowers RPT
> Olympia WA
> (360) 480-5648
> ------------------------------
>
>
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Original Message:
Sent: 5/8/2024 3:40:00 PM
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: RE: Floating Confessions
Mo Yang went: "???? ... no matter what your preferred A there are still many ways to play out of tune ..."
Reminds me of a favorite movie quote:
"There are fifty ways to screw up on this job. If you can think of twenty of them, you're a genius......and you ain't no genius"
...........Mickey Rourke to William Hurt, in "Body Heat", discussing arson.
------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107
"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 05-03-2024 13:19
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Floating Confessions
"I don't float the pitch for a variety of reasons. First, I'm hired to tune the piano, and 440 is the standard pitch."
I addressed this issue in my first post, but it was a link so folks may have not actually followed it. I'll cut and paste it here. The Gist is that the very best string players and many concert masters rarely (if ever) use A440.
Don't get me wrong - there's nothing wrong with A440. You could look at A440 as being the center of a bullseye that is about 4 cents wide. Moreover, at this point in 2024, I see A441 as being as legit as 440 unless I'm tuning for a recording that requires A440 specifically. Again - PTG requires that pitch be set at between 439.75 and 440.25 to be considered "perfect" or 100%.
I question the idea that clients hire us to tune the piano at A440. Clients have almost no understanding of what is involved with professional piano work. They hire us because they want their piano to sound and play more beautifully.
The Violin Channel recently caught up with 30+ of the world's top string players to find out …
'What is your preferred tuning A-pitch frequency?"
The Violin Channel recently caught up with 30+ of the world's top string players to find out …
Violin Virtuoso Itzhak Perlman:
"I like A=442 as it is slightly on the sharp side, but A=440 is fine also ... what's important is that everything is in tune ..."
British Cello Soloist Steven Isserlis:
"I don't mind, I go from A=430 up to A=443 ... just not down as far as A=415 as I'd find that distracting ..."
German Violin Soloist David Garrett:
"Normally I go for A=442 ... I know in Berlin the orchestras are quite high at A=444 ... but A=442 I think is a good medium ..."
Canadian Violin Soloist James Ehnes:
"Anywhere between A=440 and A=442 is fine with me ... my violin is set up to work best at that range of tension, and that is what my ear is most used to ... below A=440 starts to sound and feel "soggy" to me, and above A=442 can seem shrill ..."
Korean-American Violin Soloist Sarah Chang:
"A=442 ... it keeps my violin sounding bright without over-stressing the wind and brass players ..."
Australian Soloist, VC Artist Violinist Ray Chen:
"A=442 ... it makes everything sound sweeter ..."
VC Young Artist Violinist William Hagen:
"I think A=442 is great ... I really don't like a flat A, but when the A is too sharp it can make everything sound really severe and tight ..."
Berlin Philharmonic Concertmaster, VC Artist Violinist Noah Bendix-Balgley:
"At the moment, I'm most comfortable with A=442 - a compromise between higher European A-frequencies, and lower American ones .... I feel if the A gets too high (A=444) it pinches the resonance of the instrument ..."
Milwaukee Symphony Concertmaster, Frank Almond:
"I like a little over A=441 ... the funny thing is that I've noticed most groups that tune to A=440 or A=441 end up playing a little over A=441 anyway ... in Europe it always seems like the sky's the limit…..."
Dallas Symphony Concertmaster, Alexander Kerr:
"A=441 ... it lends just enough brightness to the sound without losing the sensation of being able to dig into the string..."
Canadian Violinist, VC Artist Nikki Chooi:
"A=441 ... it's not too high, not too low - just right ..."
American Soloist, VC Artist Violinist Stefan Jackiw:
"I find that this changes with humidity ... during dry weather I prefer A=440 ... during humid weather I prefer A=442 or even higher ..."
VC Artist Cellist Kian Soltani:
"A=442 ... simply cause it's the best ..."
Time For Three Violinist, VC Artist Charles Yang:
"I'm currently on tour in Europe and the band tunes to A=442 - I like it! ... it makes my instrument sound brighter ..."
French Violinist Augustin Dumay:
"I prefer the A=440 which is used in England, as it seems to me musically balanced, and protective of an exaggerated tension for the instruments ..."
British Violin Soloist Nicola Benedetti:
"The UK A=440 is a little flat for my liking but I have to stay flexible, otherwise I'd be in trouble ... I don't have perfect pitch so the adjustment is less painful for me than it can be for some ..."
Canadian Violin Soloist Lara St. John:
"I find A=441.5 to be my perfect A - but I am pretty adjustable ... A=441.5 sounds really good on a violin, and it's kind of mid-Atlantic ..."
American Violin Soloist Anne Akiko Meyers:
"A=442 ... it's a happy place that's just higher than 441 but lower than 443 ..."
Russian-American Violin Soloist Philippe Quint:
"My preferred pitch is A=442 ... however I now frequently ask to meet with the Principal Oboe before the concert to get the orchestra's "Official A" ... so not to spend 5 minutes re-tuning my violin onstage ..."
Violinist Rachel Barton Pine:
"I most frequently perform at A=440, 441, 442 and 415, with occasional forays into A=430 and even A=392 ... A=440 has always been my favorite because of its resonance .... trying A=460 is on my bucket list though ..."
VC Artist Violinist Benjamin Beilman:
"I'm not so picky – probably somewhere between A=441 and A=442 ... A=440 sometimes feels a little sleepy and anything over A=443 feels over caffeinated ..."
VC Artist Violinist Angelo Xiang Yu:
"This particular violin likes somewhere between A=441.5 and A=442 .... I find it gives the most natural ring and vibration ... but hey! Most of the time I don't get to choose ..."
Cellist Zuill Bailey:
"My preference is A=441 ... I find that harmonics ring low and I want to make sure that nothing sounds flat ... "
Violin Soloist Vadim Gluzman:
"I am blessed (or cursed?) with perfect pitch so it is a sensitive subject ... but I am happy between A=440 up to A=443/444 ... string players often tend to like higher tuning, but it often causes our intonation to go quite a bit "north" ..."
Violin Soloist Arnaud Sussmann:
"I like A=441 ... it's a nice middle ground between the very high "A" people tune to in Europe and the standard A=440 ... I feel instruments start sounding a bit under too much tension when the pitch rises above A=443 ..."
New England Conservatory Faculty Member, Violinist Paul Biss:
"I have learned long ago not to insist on one ... in general, though, I prefer not to go higher than A=442 ... I think the instrument rings better that way ..."
Curtis Institute Faculty Member, Violinist Ida Kavafian:
"I think we should be able to adjust to any pitch ... I can't stand when students make an excuse for the A not being where they expect - it's a poor excuse for bad intonation ... however, when I'm in charge, I ask for A=441 ..."
Veteran New England Conservatory Cello Pedagogue, Laurence Lesser:
"I don't have perfect pitch, but since that's kind of like "hearing" colours, I've gotten used to A=441 ... above and below just sounds different .... A=441 is the colour I like ..."
VC Artist Violinist Paul Huang:
"A=442 or A=443 if possible ... for me it just rings better when the A is a higher frequency and it sounds more brilliant ...."
VC Artist Violinist Tessa Lark:
"Flexibility in this realm is important so I don't have a preference ... but my natural A frequency when I sing is A=432 .... the perfect pitch in me was relieved to find out that many of my favorite composers (Bach, Mozart, Debussy & Chopin) wrote their masterpieces using 432Hz tuning ..."
VC Artist Violinist Bella Hristova:
"I like A=441 ... I think the violin sounds really brilliant at this frequency ..."
VC Young Artist Violinist Kerson Leong:
"When I practice alone, I always lean towards a lower A pitch for no apparent reason ..."
VC Artist Violinist Fedor Rudin:
"I don't have one, I feel as comfortable with A=443 as with A=415 ... but the tuning does help create a different atmosphere and sound projection ...."
VC Artist Violinist Igor Pikayzen:
"I don't swear by a particular pitch frequency, and when you travel you obviously graciously accept the A that the orchestra tunes to .... but if I would have to choose I'd go with A=442 or A=443 - for me, it just sounds more in focus to my ear!"
VC Young Artist Violinist In Mo Yang:
"???? ... no matter what your preferred A there are still many ways to play out of tune ..."
------------------------------
Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA
(360) 480-5648
Original Message:
Sent: 05-03-2024 10:09
From: Scott Cole
Subject: Floating Confessions
I don't float the pitch for a variety of reasons. First, I'm hired to tune the piano, and 440 is the standard pitch. One can argue that the typical customer can't tell the difference, but that opens the door to other kinds of corner cutting, such as ignoring the top and bottom notes: "Why bother? She'll never know, and anyway she said she just play hymns at the holidays."
If I get to a new customer and the piano is 10c flat, leaving it there means I'm making assumptions about many things, such as the stability of the customer's home, and the structure/stability of the piano. Sure, maybe that low pitch will bounce up with the next season, but how can I be sure? Right now in Oregon the weather is cool and rainy. But there are years where the spring is very hot and dry-or it goes back and forth dramatically.
That leads to other sticky questions: what exactly quantifies as a raise? Everyone has different opinions. For some, 3 cents low, for others, 10 cents. Who is to say?
Another issue I have with floating the pitch is the simple fact that pitch doesn't rise or fall evenly across the range. Typically, the bass changes the least and the high treble changes the most. Often, I'll come to a piano with the bass right in tune but the middle a few cents flat. So what am I floating-the bass, middle, or treble? Something will have to change.
Original Message:
Sent: 5/2/2024 3:19:00 PM
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: RE: Floating Confessions
Very good thoughts Wim. I agree on all your points.
I don't float pitch for one simple reason. If the piano isn't in a stable environment, how am I supposed to know that if I'm the one constantly changing the pitch at which I tune to? Is it -10¢ because of the room, or because I put it there? I've had other (very good) technicians tell me that this piano or that piano isn't stable. But I find that when it's tune to a consistent 440, things magically start to stabilize more often than not.
My only exception is where certain orchestras need a 442 tuning. I'm ok doing that, but it will cost them extra if the piano's not already at 442. But that's it. Like Wim said, if they're going to be difficult for the sake of being difficult, they can find someone else. I actually like working for discerning clients, but there's a difference between being discerning and being difficult.
------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com
Original Message:
Sent: 05-02-2024 13:11
From: Wim Blees
Subject: Floating Confessions
In response to Ryan, here are my thoughts.
First, I don't float. All my pianos are tuned to 440. I also do not cater to extraordinary demands of clients. By that I mean, if a client wants a temperament or stretch that I don't like, let him/her get another tuner. I don't mind losing a client he/she doesn't like my tuning. That doesn't mean I won't try to satisfy the demands of a client that has a legitimate concern. I have a very demanding "boss" at the university. She has a very good ear and will tell me when a note is off or needs to be voiced. But the piano is tuned within my parameters, and I will work very hard to achieve that goal. But to try to "stretch" the tuning that's out of my comfort zone, no.
The reason I don't cater to special demands is because I really don't believe that they hear it. I think they are being demanding just because they think it will make them look important or exceptional. I might be wrong, but that's how I feel.
Case in point. Back in St. Louis I tuned a piano for piano teacher from Russia with an old German upright. After I tuned here piano the first time, she plucked each string of a unison, starting at about C5, and told me the middle was flat, or the right string was sharp, etc. I worked like a dog to get those unisons in tune. This process would take another 30 - 45 minutes, but I only charged her the same amount as a regular tuning. After the 4th time I tuned her piano, I purposely left three or four string slightly flat to see if she could indeed hear the difference. Guess what. She totally missed those strings. She was just doing this plucking to make herself look like she was better than me. So I told her that from now on, if she wanted to check every unison, she would have to pay extra. That's the last time I saw her.
I learned a long time ago that you can't satisfy every customer. For whatever reason, it could be a personality thing, or I said something wrong, or she/he didn't like my tuning, some customers don't want you to tune their piano again. And I'm OK with that.
The bottom line is, do the best you can, be as nice as possible, and hope the customer will call you back. If they get too demanding for a reason that I don't like, I let them go, and move on.
Thank you, Ryan, for opening this conversation.
Wim
Original Message:
Sent: 5/2/2024 10:58:00 AM
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Floating Confessions
I was happy to see the discussion around the error in using F3 to set pitch morph into a discussion regarding floating pitch. It is a subject near and dear to my heart.
The way I think about it now is this: I not only float pitch, I float the entire tuning.
When I first began my tuning career, I had very rigid ideas about my tuning. I was strictly aural for at least the first decade. I was dedicated to a "textbook" PTG test type of tuning. As the years progressed, however, I came across certain clients who seemed to want something different. One of the most obvious cases was tuning for the late jazz artist Jessica Williams. She really emphasized that she wanted a lot of stretch in the tuning and thought my first "textbook" tuning sounded sharp in the bass and flat in the treble. Graciously trying to accommodate her led to me prepping the pianos for two of her albums. She was challenging but also rewarding to work for. And she did indeed like a LOT of stretch, especially on the ends.
One summer left the octave spread particularly wide, so I thought I'd find out what the limits of stretch were that she could tolerate. I left the piano with octaves that had a clear beat and very busy thirds. It took her less than a day let me know that I had gone too far!
I had another client, a physicist with a 7' Schimmel who requested 2:1 octaves throughout the entire compass. That also proved to be fairly challenging and also educational.
The fact that all the ETD's have various stretch settings to choose from, shows that there is not a specific amount of stretch that is universally agreed on as perfect. In my estimation, this is one of the great ironies of the ETD: It is extremely precise at choosing high resolution pitch targets within a system that is somewhat squishy and flexible. It can be akin to adjusting pixels in a 1200 dpi image that will be shown on a 600 dpi screen.
This squish factor can certainly be used to a technician's advantage if you are the type who attempts to serve your client's best interests by making the pianos as nice as you can for the time that you have. This is opposed to what Darrel Fandrich used to describe as the "tune and run" tuner. In other words, looking for opportunities to shave time off tuning to address touch and tone issues. And it is rare to find a piano without touch and tone issues.
Experience over time helps one learn what the limits are. Like everything in piano work, you have to overdo and underdo things in order to discover where the sweet spots lie. Discovering how far you can reasonably and professionally float the pitch and the stretch the octaves is one of the most powerful tools a technician can develop.
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Ryan Sowers RPT
Olympia WA
(360) 480-5648
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