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Grand piano rocks when played

  • 1.  Grand piano rocks when played

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 5 days ago

    Hello all, 

    Is there a way to keep a small grand (5'8") from rocking while playing and pedaling?  Does caster wheel orientation make a difference?  It is sitting in 5" caster cups on carpet.  

    Thanks!



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    Laura Wright, RPT
    Ivory Keys Piano Service
    Durango CO
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  • 2.  RE: Grand piano rocks when played

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 5 days ago
    Yes, the direction of the caster do make a difference. They should be sideways. But that's not the reason the piano rocks. The reason the piano rocks in the first place is because the player is pushing the pedal to the rear, instead of pushing down on the pedal.

    Wim  





  • 3.  RE: Grand piano rocks when played

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 5 days ago

    Laura,

    You might need to use a "piano jack". Check to make sure the joints of the legs are solid and the leg locks are tight. They can get worn.



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    Eugene Taets RPT
    Silvis IL
    (309) 796-2888
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  • 4.  RE: Grand piano rocks when played

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 5 days ago

    I once had a piano like this.  A very small grand.  It turned out that there was a gap between the leg and the leg-plate.  The only cure, which I did not attempt, was to disassemble the leg and reglue it.  Other than that, there was not much else to do except to replace it, and all three legs were the same.  As far as I know, it's still rockin'..



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    Paul McCloud, RPT
    Accutone Piano Service
    www.AccutonePianoService.com
    pavadasa@gmail.com
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  • 5.  RE: Grand piano rocks when played

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 5 days ago

    As a teenager, I was in a garage band trio (that happened to feature Nels Cline, long the lead guitarist in Jeff Tweedy's band "Wilco"). We went by a few different names during our tenure together, one of which was "Three Can't Rock." We were being ironic! We thought that we rocked well enough, but the name came from the notion that, at least theoretically, anything with three legs canNOT rock, regardless of discrepancies in leg length. Anything with more than three contact points with the ground (such as upright pianos) could and would rock if all casters were not in (equal) contact with the floor.

    Maybe I am missing something here, but for something with three legs (like most grand pianos), if it were to rock, wouldn't that mean that it only has two points of contact at any given time? Hard to imagine. Are you sure that the pedal lyre is not acting as a third contact point, which would allow the piano to rock when weight shifted from one pair of the actual legs to another?

    Best,

    Alan



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    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
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  • 6.  RE: Grand piano rocks when played

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 5 days ago

    In my experience, small grands do have a tendency to rock on caster cups. Wim's suggestion about wheel orientation may help in reducing excess movement.



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    Patrick Draine RPT
    Billerica MA
    (978) 663-9690
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  • 7.  RE: Grand piano rocks when played

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 5 days ago

    I had this on a small older grand and it turned out that the cast iron interlocking plates on two legs were cracked.



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    Steven Rosenthal RPT
    Honolulu HI
    (808) 521-7129
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  • 8.  RE: Grand piano rocks when played

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 4 days ago

    I once got a call from a dealer who sold grands over the internet from half-way across the country. The buyer complained that the music desk wobbled back and forth as she pressed the pedal. Dealer wanted me to fix whatever, and give it a tune. 

    The piano was placed on a very smooth laminate floor. For the final placement they pushed the piano towards the tail, which happened to line up all the casters in one direction. I sold the owner some caster cups, and oriented all the casters away from the center of the piano so none were pointed in the same direction. Problem solved, happy owner, happy dealer, happy technician. 
    Ever since then, whenever I move a grand piano into a home, I always orient the casters pointing away from the center before leaving. 

    I have seen a flurry of caster cups from China via Amazon where the center is flat, rather than concave. This allows the casters to move around a bit, instead of being held in place. There are newer versions that are correct. 



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    David Stocker, RPT
    Olympia WA
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  • 9.  RE: Grand piano rocks when played

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 2 days ago

    Just wanted to follow up and thank everyone for their ideas.  This is a 1953 Baldwin R that I actually just obtained as my personal piano, so I was involved with the set up.  All the legs and interlocking plates are sound, and I think David hit the nail on the head about the flat caster cups.  Today I took my jack in the box and checked all the legs (one was not locked in tightly!), then I put some dense foam pads (taken from those furniture slider cups you get for moving furniture) and put them in the caster cups, turned the wheels sideways, and Voila!  It is much steadier now!  Not rock solid, but way less wobble than before.  You have to pound out some Rachmaninov to get movement now. (: 

    On a side note, I live in a double wide mobile home, has anyone had any experience that pianos might wobble more in that situation?

    Thanks to all who responded!



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    Laura Wright, RPT
    Ivory Keys Piano Service
    Durango CO
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  • 10.  RE: Grand piano rocks when played

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 2 days ago

    Hi Laura,

    I've worked on quite a few grands in mobile homes before. Most don't have issues as long as there's some kind of support directly underneath the floor where the piano is. Thankfully that's fairly cheap and easy to do in a mobile home. A few cylinder blocks and some 2"x4"s seem to work wonderfully in my experience. 



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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    www.FromZeroToSixFiguresBook.com
    www.PianoCraftTechnicalSchool.com
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  • 11.  RE: Grand piano rocks when played

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 2 days ago

    Laura,

    Put your fingers right at the joint where the vertical leg part meets the "crown"(?) Then start pushing things to get the piano wobbling. If you feel the slightest movement at that joint, it is loose and will contribute to this shaking (even though its better right now). The fix is relatively simple in that you remove the leg, saturate the joint with CA, let cure and re-assemble. Usually if one has it, they all do. 

    And...believe it or not, this has an effect on the voicing of the piano. 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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