Tim
This is why we're here. Many minds coming together to give advice.
Best of luck to you.
Wim
Original Message:
Sent: 3/5/2023 9:36:00 PM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: RE: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
Well, well, well.???? Finally got to get "eyes" on the piano tonight.??
No mold on hammers.?? Relative humidity in the room was 32%.?? Observed some tiny bits of mildew on a few damper heads, a plate strut, and the case rim.?? No sluggish action centers.?? No deposits on soundboard. ?? Piano needs tuning and was 22 cents FLAT, so I cannot believe that it was subjected to the extremely high humidity conditions that I was led to believe.?? (It was tuned to 440 back in November.)?? I have no idea what "black spots" the president of the concert association observed on the hammers.?? Perhaps a fly???
Given all the hub-bub over this, they plan to have a professional check the deposits (what little there is), but this appears to be a purely cosmetic issue.
Many thanks for all the concern.?? Sorry to take so much of everyone's time, but I did learn a lot from these conversations.??
p.s.--- Why does this web software keep inserting question marks into my replies???
Thanks.
--- Tim
-- Tim Edwards, Piano Technician 740-593-3998 Piano Tuning and Repair since 1977 timdepianoman@gmail.com
Original Message:
Sent: 3/5/2023 11:16:00 AM
From: Gannon Rhinehart
Subject: RE: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
If you do end up cleaning it yourself.
I would try TSP to remove the mold.
And Borax to prevent the mold from coming back.
Both can usually be bought from a hardware store.
Wear goggles, gloves and a respirator.
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Gannon Rhinehart
Santa Fe NM
(505) 692-8385
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Original Message:
Sent: 03-04-2023 20:59
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
Thanks to all here!
Many of you have kindly suggested I decline to work on this piano.?? This is a very difficult decision for me.?? Were it a new customer it'd be easy, but I've been tuning for this venue since 2015.?? They had built a separate, climate-controlled room (no "DC" system) for this Steinway.?? Over these years, the piano has been very stable, never varying any more than 10 cents on a tuning.???? They spent a sizable sum this past summer to have Andy Lyford come and do a complete voicing and regulation.?? He was quite impressed with the care the piano has had over the years.???? They have referred several other customers to me.???? Their organization provides 5-10 concerts per year to the public, and season tickets for my wife and I total only $85.00 per year.????
The climate control system in that room has been reliable up until this year.?? It's a tragic situation for them, and I'd really like to help them any way I can (without compromising anyone's health).???? It is doubtful that this piano will be used for the upcoming concert, but I'm doing my best to explore what options may be feasible going forward.???? I seriously doubt that any mold remediation crew will have knowledge of how to deal with a piano!??
So --- a couple questions:??
1)?????? How can I assess whether this piano is "salvageable", a re-build candidate, or a write-off????? i.e.--- If it's just some white mold on the case and a few spots on some hammers, does it make sense to write it off????? Andy (who worked on it this past summer) seems to think it should be salvageable with a bit of "cleanup".???? (Again -- I haven't yet seen the piano, and probably won't until Tuesday).???? I've purchased some masks, goggles, and some mold killer/cleaning solutions to test if it doesn't appear too badly damaged; but I suspect that we may have to have a professional test the mold to be sure it can be safely used.????
2)?????? Assuming that more extensive remediation or rebuilding is required, will rebuilding shops even consider working on a piano like this???
I really appreciate everyone's concern on this, and I hope to be able to find a workable solution for these people.?? They've been good customers through the years, and a valuable asset to the community.
Thanks.
--- Tim
-- Tim Edwards, Piano Technician 740-593-3998 Piano Tuning and Repair since 1977 timdepianoman@gmail.com
Original Message:
Sent: 3/4/2023 7:25:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
Tim ... please decline the job regardless of what color mold it is . There are many types of mold and people have different sensitivites to them. There are many excellent web sites with pictures to help identify molds and there are a variety of test kits as well. Most kits requiring samples that need to go to a lab . Given what you said, the piano has been severely compromised. The venue did not properly care for the instrument . I would bet that the artist would rather not play on the instrument. If it is in fact Judy Carmichael she was booked a year in advance when she played here so the venue should have had the instrument stored safely and monitored closely. You will be risking your health and the health of others. I would slap a big warning sign on it cautioning everyone not to play /clean/tune the instrument . Put caution tape across the fall board .Although the instrument was not in a flood situation there was guidance put out by the Australian Piano Technicians Guild on condemning flood exposed pianos
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James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
Original Message:
Sent: 03-04-2023 19:00
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
Wow!?? So much to digest here.?? I will examine the piano on Tuesday and make a decision.?? If black mold is present, I'll decline to work on it until remediated.?? If it mostly just cosmetic "white" or "green" mold, I may see what I can do with it.??
It's my understanding that some black molds are toxic, but not all.?? If that's present I'll want it evaluated by a pro before continuing to service that piano.??
Thanks everyone!
-- Tim Edwards, Piano Technician 740-593-3998 Piano Tuning and Repair since 1977 timdepianoman@gmail.com
Original Message:
Sent: 3/4/2023 4:03:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
I will repeat my message They need to rent. Using this instrument is too dangerous to everyone including you and the artist. I believe this artist played an outdoor concert here on a rented instrument . Every time the hammers move they will throw off mold spores. Who knows what will get released or transferred when you tune it , play test blows etc. When we had severe flooding of the rivers here away from the coast I did several inspections of pianos that had been in flooded homes. A large upright had so much moisture in the hammers that the mechanical moisture meters showed 100 % on the meter; same thing with the electronic digital meters. It had been in a moisture laden home where water had risen to the pedals and bottom board A grand piano in another town had been sitting in standing water halfway up the legs. 3/4 of the hammers had peeled off there cores and it too had high moisture readings in the action . each piano had little to no visible mold but it was probably starting. All new hammers shanks and flanges where installed but the customer did not want to go for whippens despite my recommendation to replace them All that moisture had really affected the action centers. Just lay it out and refuse to take the job
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James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
Original Message:
Sent: 03-04-2023 12:57
From: Edward Foote
Subject: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
Greetings,
There are times when the most profitable thing we can do is to refuse a job. I would tell them the piano is not usable in this time frame, and may never be. The risk will be either to one's relationship with the account or to one's lungs and health. Not much of a decision imho.
Regards,
Original Message:
Sent: 3/4/2023 9:15:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
I agree that mold is not something to be taken lightly. Depending on how much is inside the piano, it might be worth getting a company like Servpro to evaluate the piano. If this mold is inside the action parts and on the soundboard under the plate, you might want to recommend a complete rebuild. If it can be proven that the failure of the DC system was due to an electrical problem, insurance might pay for it.
Original Message:
Sent: 3/4/2023 8:43:00 AM
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: RE: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
PPS! I JUST learned that grain alcohol can encourage growth with certain types of mold! Dag-nabbit!!! Back to other alcohols, peroxide & Scott's Outdoor Cleaner. I have used the latter on all kinds of surfaces, incliding books, various finishes, & raw fingerboards, without any discoloration. Also works on laundry. LOL!
PPPS: I really hate mold. It's everywhere here. Sometimes you can even smell it outside when you get out of your car after breathing cleaner air through your car air filter. 😒
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Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net
Original Message:
Sent: 03-04-2023 08:34
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
PS: I have used Scott's Outdoor Cleaner, peroxide based, on my personal instruments with great success & with the mold either not returning at all or returning much later than with other products. I haven't used it on a good piano, though.
Wim: Bleach has been proven to encourage mold growth in the long run on porous surfaces. Works great on non porous surfaces, though. 😉
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Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net
Original Message:
Sent: 03-04-2023 08:26
From: Wim Blees
Subject: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
The first question is, did they plug the DC back in, or is it still out?
Removing the mold might not be the hardest part. Yes, it will take time. (use a bleach product). The bigger concern is the tuning stability. As I asked, has the DC problem been solved? If not, you might have a hard time keeping the piano in tune.
Is there any way you can have access to the piano other than the day before your doctors appointment? Can you get in there over the weekend?
That's my recommendation.
Original Message:
Sent: 3/4/2023 8:03:00 AM
From: Timothy Edwards
Subject: Help! Moldy Steinway D in concert hall with little time.
The climate control system in a local concert venue has evidently failed, turning the storage room for their Steinway D into a "sauna" for the past couple months. I received a message last night requesting that I clean "mold blooms" from the piano and hammers prior to the concert on Thursday. I can only access the piano on Tuesday due to room schedules and my upcoming surgery on Wednesday-Thursday. I "may" have 5-7 hours to work on it on Tuesday, but I'm concerned about the hazards of mold removal from hammers (not to mention potential liability), and trying to tune a piano for a concert with that much moisture content two days prior to the event. (Judy Carmichael --- "stride" pianist). I hate walking blindly into a potential disaster with a limited time frame.
Suggestions? Cautions? Is this a potential "hazmat" situation?
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Timothy Edwards
Beckley WV
(740) 517-7636
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