Here are the K3 offsets from my ETD, but admittedly, it will sound too strong if you set normal tuning parameters in your ETD. David's formula really works.
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Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2025 00:36
From: Tim Foster
Subject: Kernberger III
Hi Thomas,
Kirnberger II does not have any stronger 3rds than does K3, just more of them. The offsets for the 1771 version (K2) can be found at https://rollingball.com/TemperamentsFrames.htm under Well temperaments, then Kirnberger.
Some of the instructions from Kirnberger's lifetime started the temperament on C#, but starting on C is also fairly simple. Were you looking for offsets or aural instructions?
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Tim Foster RPT
New Oxford PA
(470) 231-6074
Original Message:
Sent: 11-10-2025 19:36
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: Kernberger III
If you're interested and will keep the system entirely private to yourself I can send you instructions.
I use the Jahn CTS5 which is an analogue phase comparator, quick, immediate, with a raw and unprocessed display which enables more precise pull and pin setting in real time than any phone-app can do. On page 18 of
http://www.tuning-set.de/Beda5E.pdf you'll find the offsets for a good variety of temperaments. The machine is on the one hand apparently expensive
https://www.thomann.co.uk/jahn_tla_cts5.htm but you'll get your money back in a handful of tunings and, importantly, it will enable you to work faster. It's so accurate that you can, if pushed, tune unisons with it. This is not a call to divert into the discussion of the merits of different ETDs or apps, as there is a specific reason why I use this machine and why it's given my system success.
Tim Foster has tamed other equipment but I can't stress enough the facility of the CTS5 to listen very specifically to what we want it to listen to, rather than how an algorithm chosen by someone else might capriciously decide.
This is important to taming Kirnberger III.
KIII is the strongest temperament that can be tuned, if tamed, without the worst 3rds becoming unpleasant. Tuned conventionally whether by ear or by app, it can be too strong and Kellner is the strongest to which one can go, and without necessarily achieving the resonance that we can find by using the machine tuning.
From the manual, specifically KIII
Starting at A and ascending:
0 +7.5 +4.0 +12.0 +2.0 +4.0 +6.0 +2.0 +9.5 0 +8.0 +4.0
It took me 15 years of research to learn how to tame it and in that my Mentor, Michael Gamble, gave me the final clue.
If tuning conventionally then tune Kellner first.
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David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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+44 7868385643
Original Message:
Sent: 11/10/2025 6:28:00 PM
From: Thomas Brantigan
Subject: Kernberger III
I have seen a lot of discussion lately on Kernberger II in postings and in the Journal. What I haven't found is a description of exactly how you tune that temperament. I first tried to tune Kerberber III based on what was included with PianoScope but then in searching for other info, I came across a set of instructions that gave a result very different from PianoScope's version. Where can I find the definition in a form I can tune from?
Thanks
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[Tom] [Brantigan]
[Brantigan piano Services]
[Folsom] [CA]
[410-371-1617]
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