Pianotech

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

How old is the piano and what name is it ? Does it have a shift pedal and mechanism ? You will never get  a bolt to grab into the oak and will either have to tap nthen threads or use insert sleeves, Is there a problem causing a knock or uneven frame ? Some pianos have glide bolts that come up under the keybed that contact the front raiol of the keyframe. It sounds like a lot of trouble to put something there that was not there

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

I'm confused. Key frame glides are to reduce friction and bed the balance rail. If you don't have enough dip, add punchings at the balance rail pins. Maybe the key dip is correct and your hammer blow is wrong.

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

I'm confused. Key frame glides are to reduce friction and bed the balance rail. If you don't have enough dip, add punchings at the balance rail pins. Maybe the key dip is correct and your hammer blow is wrong.

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

I'm confused. Key frame glides are to reduce friction and bed the balance rail. If you don't have enough dip, add punchings at the balance rail pins. Maybe the key dip is correct and your hammer blow is wrong.

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

A piano this age has a lot of wear on it and the parts may be at the end of their useful life. While a solid keyframe contact with the keybed lays the foundation for regulation you need to assess all of the parts, hammer wear, knuckle condition, whippen (wippen, balancier, repetition)  condition, spring strength, punchings, key height, hammer flange friction, backchecks.. Try to get the end notes in each section paying attention to jack position, jack travel in the window.

If the knuckles are out of round bolster them. If knuckles are flat, worn down fuhgetabouit... replace the knuckles. How high are the drop screws ? do they scrape the pinblock ? Remove a wippen and check the friction on the flange, jack,rep lever as well as all of the felts and operation of the rep springs. Do the springs have cords, adjustment screws or are they butterfly type-if so clean the grub 

I'm confused. Key frame glides are to reduce friction and bed the balance rail. If you don't have enough dip, add punchings at the balance rail pins. Maybe the key dip is correct and your hammer blow is wrong.

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

Hi everyone,

I had posted a similar query about a glide-less Bluthner, and it got me wondering: if one is going to install hardwood inserts into a keybed, how would you drill the holes? I would think a Forstner bit, but what do you do if there's no working room in the action cavity? I've looked at Forstner bits-you'd have to get a 1/4" hex shank for use with a 90° drill adapter. But you can get only the smallest sizes with a 1/4" shank. I use a 1" spade end bit for countersinking t-nuts for new lyre bolts, but I assume that doesn't make a suitable hole for an insert.

A piano this age has a lot of wear on it and the parts may be at the end of their useful life. While a solid keyframe contact with the keybed lays the foundation for regulation you need to assess all of the parts, hammer wear, knuckle condition, whippen (wippen, balancier, repetition)  condition, spring strength, punchings, key height, hammer flange friction, backchecks.. Try to get the end notes in each section paying attention to jack position, jack travel in the window.

If the knuckles are out of round bolster them. If knuckles are flat, worn down fuhgetabouit... replace the knuckles. How high are the drop screws ? do they scrape the pinblock ? Remove a wippen and check the friction on the flange, jack,rep lever as well as all of the felts and operation of the rep springs. Do the springs have cords, adjustment screws or are they butterfly type-if so clean the grub 

I'm confused. Key frame glides are to reduce friction and bed the balance rail. If you don't have enough dip, add punchings at the balance rail pins. Maybe the key dip is correct and your hammer blow is wrong.

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

I seem to remember some discussion about this a long time ago.  Drill a hole the size of the shank of a spade bit where you want the insert.  You'll have to do a bit of grinding and filing on a your bit to create cutting edges on the back side where the shank and blade meet.  Insert the bit from the top of the hole, then insert the bit into your drill from below the keybed.  You can cut your hole from there.  No, I haven't done this myself, but it would work.  Of course, you'd have to have clearance from the lyre plate, trapwork levers, etc. 

Hi everyone,

I had posted a similar query about a glide-less Bluthner, and it got me wondering: if one is going to install hardwood inserts into a keybed, how would you drill the holes? I would think a Forstner bit, but what do you do if there's no working room in the action cavity? I've looked at Forstner bits-you'd have to get a 1/4" hex shank for use with a 90° drill adapter. But you can get only the smallest sizes with a 1/4" shank. I use a 1" spade end bit for countersinking t-nuts for new lyre bolts, but I assume that doesn't make a suitable hole for an insert.

A piano this age has a lot of wear on it and the parts may be at the end of their useful life. While a solid keyframe contact with the keybed lays the foundation for regulation you need to assess all of the parts, hammer wear, knuckle condition, whippen (wippen, balancier, repetition)  condition, spring strength, punchings, key height, hammer flange friction, backchecks.. Try to get the end notes in each section paying attention to jack position, jack travel in the window.

If the knuckles are out of round bolster them. If knuckles are flat, worn down fuhgetabouit... replace the knuckles. How high are the drop screws ? do they scrape the pinblock ? Remove a wippen and check the friction on the flange, jack,rep lever as well as all of the felts and operation of the rep springs. Do the springs have cords, adjustment screws or are they butterfly type-if so clean the grub 

I'm confused. Key frame glides are to reduce friction and bed the balance rail. If you don't have enough dip, add punchings at the balance rail pins. Maybe the key dip is correct and your hammer blow is wrong.

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

All of this is why (when I was faced with the same dilemma) I opted to create Teflon pads of the appropriate thickness as ersatz BR glides. Worked quite well, and I'd do it again under similar circumstances. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I seem to remember some discussion about this a long time ago.  Drill a hole the size of the shank of a spade bit where you want the insert.  You'll have to do a bit of grinding and filing on a your bit to create cutting edges on the back side where the shank and blade meet.  Insert the bit from the top of the hole, then insert the bit into your drill from below the keybed.  You can cut your hole from there.  No, I haven't done this myself, but it would work.  Of course, you'd have to have clearance from the lyre plate, trapwork levers, etc. 

Hi everyone,

I had posted a similar query about a glide-less Bluthner, and it got me wondering: if one is going to install hardwood inserts into a keybed, how would you drill the holes? I would think a Forstner bit, but what do you do if there's no working room in the action cavity? I've looked at Forstner bits-you'd have to get a 1/4" hex shank for use with a 90° drill adapter. But you can get only the smallest sizes with a 1/4" shank. I use a 1" spade end bit for countersinking t-nuts for new lyre bolts, but I assume that doesn't make a suitable hole for an insert.

A piano this age has a lot of wear on it and the parts may be at the end of their useful life. While a solid keyframe contact with the keybed lays the foundation for regulation you need to assess all of the parts, hammer wear, knuckle condition, whippen (wippen, balancier, repetition)  condition, spring strength, punchings, key height, hammer flange friction, backchecks.. Try to get the end notes in each section paying attention to jack position, jack travel in the window.

If the knuckles are out of round bolster them. If knuckles are flat, worn down fuhgetabouit... replace the knuckles. How high are the drop screws ? do they scrape the pinblock ? Remove a wippen and check the friction on the flange, jack,rep lever as well as all of the felts and operation of the rep springs. Do the springs have cords, adjustment screws or are they butterfly type-if so clean the grub 

I'm confused. Key frame glides are to reduce friction and bed the balance rail. If you don't have enough dip, add punchings at the balance rail pins. Maybe the key dip is correct and your hammer blow is wrong.

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

Drilling through the keybed could really rip it up using spade bits or cheap Forstner bits. On top of that most Forstner bits are made for use in drill presses.

There is a drill guide that allows a drill to become a mini drill press. To use it to make holes for inserts you would need to use it from under the piano. A pilot hole should be drilled from inside the action cavity with a right angle drill chuck . To get a clean cut you need to invest in a high quality Forstner bit. I recently bought a $50 metric Forstner bit from Infinity Tools . To prevent tear out of the hole inside the action cavity mount a sacrifical piece of wood inside the action cavity using sheetrock/drywall screws. This way when the forstner exits it will not tear out the exit hole. 

Drill a little at a time removing the bit cleaning out the sawdust and inserting the bit in the hole. this will prevent burning and damaging the bit 

This drill guide4 and technique is also good when enlarging the opening for the Pitman on Steinway & Sons grand

All of this is why (when I was faced with the same dilemma) I opted to create Teflon pads of the appropriate thickness as ersatz BR glides. Worked quite well, and I'd do it again under similar circumstances. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I seem to remember some discussion about this a long time ago.  Drill a hole the size of the shank of a spade bit where you want the insert.  You'll have to do a bit of grinding and filing on a your bit to create cutting edges on the back side where the shank and blade meet.  Insert the bit from the top of the hole, then insert the bit into your drill from below the keybed.  You can cut your hole from there.  No, I haven't done this myself, but it would work.  Of course, you'd have to have clearance from the lyre plate, trapwork levers, etc. 

Hi everyone,

I had posted a similar query about a glide-less Bluthner, and it got me wondering: if one is going to install hardwood inserts into a keybed, how would you drill the holes? I would think a Forstner bit, but what do you do if there's no working room in the action cavity? I've looked at Forstner bits-you'd have to get a 1/4" hex shank for use with a 90° drill adapter. But you can get only the smallest sizes with a 1/4" shank. I use a 1" spade end bit for countersinking t-nuts for new lyre bolts, but I assume that doesn't make a suitable hole for an insert.

A piano this age has a lot of wear on it and the parts may be at the end of their useful life. While a solid keyframe contact with the keybed lays the foundation for regulation you need to assess all of the parts, hammer wear, knuckle condition, whippen (wippen, balancier, repetition)  condition, spring strength, punchings, key height, hammer flange friction, backchecks.. Try to get the end notes in each section paying attention to jack position, jack travel in the window.

If the knuckles are out of round bolster them. If knuckles are flat, worn down fuhgetabouit... replace the knuckles. How high are the drop screws ? do they scrape the pinblock ? Remove a wippen and check the friction on the flange, jack,rep lever as well as all of the felts and operation of the rep springs. Do the springs have cords, adjustment screws or are they butterfly type-if so clean the grub 

I'm confused. Key frame glides are to reduce friction and bed the balance rail. If you don't have enough dip, add punchings at the balance rail pins. Maybe the key dip is correct and your hammer blow is wrong.

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You 

OTOH, unless it's a problem (a real problem) it's not worth all that effort. Plane the front and rear rails till the balance rail rests solidly on the keybed. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Drilling through the keybed could really rip it up using spade bits or cheap Forstner bits. On top of that most Forstner bits are made for use in drill presses.

There is a drill guide that allows a drill to become a mini drill press. To use it to make holes for inserts you would need to use it from under the piano. A pilot hole should be drilled from inside the action cavity with a right angle drill chuck . To get a clean cut you need to invest in a high quality Forstner bit. I recently bought a $50 metric Forstner bit from Infinity Tools . To prevent tear out of the hole inside the action cavity mount a sacrifical piece of wood inside the action cavity using sheetrock/drywall screws. This way when the forstner exits it will not tear out the exit hole. 

Drill a little at a time removing the bit cleaning out the sawdust and inserting the bit in the hole. this will prevent burning and damaging the bit 

This drill guide4 and technique is also good when enlarging the opening for the Pitman on Steinway & Sons grand

All of this is why (when I was faced with the same dilemma) I opted to create Teflon pads of the appropriate thickness as ersatz BR glides. Worked quite well, and I'd do it again under similar circumstances. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I seem to remember some discussion about this a long time ago.  Drill a hole the size of the shank of a spade bit where you want the insert.  You'll have to do a bit of grinding and filing on a your bit to create cutting edges on the back side where the shank and blade meet.  Insert the bit from the top of the hole, then insert the bit into your drill from below the keybed.  You can cut your hole from there.  No, I haven't done this myself, but it would work.  Of course, you'd have to have clearance from the lyre plate, trapwork levers, etc. 

Hi everyone,

I had posted a similar query about a glide-less Bluthner, and it got me wondering: if one is going to install hardwood inserts into a keybed, how would you drill the holes? I would think a Forstner bit, but what do you do if there's no working room in the action cavity? I've looked at Forstner bits-you'd have to get a 1/4" hex shank for use with a 90° drill adapter. But you can get only the smallest sizes with a 1/4" shank. I use a 1" spade end bit for countersinking t-nuts for new lyre bolts, but I assume that doesn't make a suitable hole for an insert.

A piano this age has a lot of wear on it and the parts may be at the end of their useful life. While a solid keyframe contact with the keybed lays the foundation for regulation you need to assess all of the parts, hammer wear, knuckle condition, whippen (wippen, balancier, repetition)  condition, spring strength, punchings, key height, hammer flange friction, backchecks.. Try to get the end notes in each section paying attention to jack position, jack travel in the window.

If the knuckles are out of round bolster them. If knuckles are flat, worn down fuhgetabouit... replace the knuckles. How high are the drop screws ? do they scrape the pinblock ? Remove a wippen and check the friction on the flange, jack,rep lever as well as all of the felts and operation of the rep springs. Do the springs have cords, adjustment screws or are they butterfly type-if so clean the grub 

I'm confused. Key frame glides are to reduce friction and bed the balance rail. If you don't have enough dip, add punchings at the balance rail pins. Maybe the key dip is correct and your hammer blow is wrong.

I have come across a older greman made piano with no glide bolts in frame . I have never seen in 43 yrs? 

so seems simple to install some , Ah not so easy . after much measuring to locate where to drill holes and drill holes in this oak frame . this is done 

but I cant seem to get the threads on the bolt to take and grab the wood to turn them uo in the frame 

any suggestions ?

Thank You