Pianotech

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

I've never hung hammers before so my suggestion is probably crazy, but why not put a tiny split in the top of the shank and after reinstalling the new hammer just drive a tiny wedge in to that split to expand the shank?

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

If he requested the hammers be rehung and chose the hammer and refused your suggestions about samples then I would tell him you can rehang the old hammers but it will require a new shank for reasons mentioned and I would charge for the parts and labor. You can leave him the new set, shanks attached, in case he changes his mind again.

Customers who side step your expertise and make their own choices are responsible for the outcome. This is not your problem, but you can help him resolve it at his expense. I would also tell him that before he spends the money on putting it back as it was it makes more economic sense (for him) to try to voice it. What does he expect you to do with the new set?

I run into this periodically, a customer who claims to know everything and knows nothing but what they read in some chat room. I usually walk away  

What kind of piano, btw, and what hammer did he insist on?. 

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

If he requested the hammers be rehung and chose the hammer and refused your suggestions about samples then I would tell him you can rehang the old hammers but it will require a new shank for reasons mentioned and I would charge for the parts and labor. You can leave him the new set, shanks attached, in case he changes his mind again.

Customers who side step your expertise and make their own choices are responsible for the outcome. This is not your problem, but you can help him resolve it at his expense. I would also tell him that before he spends the money on putting it back as it was it makes more economic sense (for him) to try to voice it. What does he expect you to do with the new set?

I run into this periodically, a customer who claims to know everything and knows nothing but what they read in some chat room. I usually walk away  

What kind of piano, btw, and what hammer did he insist on?. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 20:34
From: Scott Cole
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

I agree with David L. The rehung old hammers will almost certainly not go back on the way they were originally, it's much more difficult to hang ill fitting hammers. At minimum, you will have to file and shape them; so they probably won't sound like they did before in the piano. Then what? I wouldn't want to take responsibility for that, it's too problematic. Does the customer think it's like changing tires on a car? 

With two hung hammer sets at least you can easily do side by side comparisons. This customer is costing you a lot of time just fielding their issues. Make it clear to them that they have to pay you to indulge them.

Btw, this would have been a disaster for me as I cut the old hammers off when I'm replacing them.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 21:40
From: David Love
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

If he requested the hammers be rehung and chose the hammer and refused your suggestions about samples then I would tell him you can rehang the old hammers but it will require a new shank for reasons mentioned and I would charge for the parts and labor. You can leave him the new set, shanks attached, in case he changes his mind again.

Customers who side step your expertise and make their own choices are responsible for the outcome. This is not your problem, but you can help him resolve it at his expense. I would also tell him that before he spends the money on putting it back as it was it makes more economic sense (for him) to try to voice it. What does he expect you to do with the new set?

I run into this periodically, a customer who claims to know everything and knows nothing but what they read in some chat room. I usually walk away  

What kind of piano, btw, and what hammer did he insist on?. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 20:34
From: Scott Cole
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

I agree with David L. The rehung old hammers will almost certainly not go back on the way they were originally, it's much more difficult to hang ill fitting hammers. At minimum, you will have to file and shape them; so they probably won't sound like they did before in the piano. Then what? I wouldn't want to take responsibility for that, it's too problematic. Does the customer think it's like changing tires on a car? 

With two hung hammer sets at least you can easily do side by side comparisons. This customer is costing you a lot of time just fielding their issues. Make it clear to them that they have to pay you to indulge them.

Btw, this would have been a disaster for me as I cut the old hammers off when I'm replacing them.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 21:40
From: David Love
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

If he requested the hammers be rehung and chose the hammer and refused your suggestions about samples then I would tell him you can rehang the old hammers but it will require a new shank for reasons mentioned and I would charge for the parts and labor. You can leave him the new set, shanks attached, in case he changes his mind again.

Customers who side step your expertise and make their own choices are responsible for the outcome. This is not your problem, but you can help him resolve it at his expense. I would also tell him that before he spends the money on putting it back as it was it makes more economic sense (for him) to try to voice it. What does he expect you to do with the new set?

I run into this periodically, a customer who claims to know everything and knows nothing but what they read in some chat room. I usually walk away  

What kind of piano, btw, and what hammer did he insist on?. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 20:34
From: Scott Cole
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

How reduced is it?  I would say that going even from 3/16 to a 7/32 is not something I would want to do. But if you were determined to do it, I would just probably do what Chris suggested and use the Titebond trim glue, which is very thick, and hope you don't leave any gaps in there. The concern I have is shrinkage over time and those hammerheads coming loose. Might not happen, but it could. I suppose you could plug all the holes with dowels and re bore.  It's a little tricky with hammers that are already tapered, but you can do it. 

I agree with David L. The rehung old hammers will almost certainly not go back on the way they were originally, it's much more difficult to hang ill fitting hammers. At minimum, you will have to file and shape them; so they probably won't sound like they did before in the piano. Then what? I wouldn't want to take responsibility for that, it's too problematic. Does the customer think it's like changing tires on a car? 

With two hung hammer sets at least you can easily do side by side comparisons. This customer is costing you a lot of time just fielding their issues. Make it clear to them that they have to pay you to indulge them.

Btw, this would have been a disaster for me as I cut the old hammers off when I'm replacing them.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 21:40
From: David Love
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

If he requested the hammers be rehung and chose the hammer and refused your suggestions about samples then I would tell him you can rehang the old hammers but it will require a new shank for reasons mentioned and I would charge for the parts and labor. You can leave him the new set, shanks attached, in case he changes his mind again.

Customers who side step your expertise and make their own choices are responsible for the outcome. This is not your problem, but you can help him resolve it at his expense. I would also tell him that before he spends the money on putting it back as it was it makes more economic sense (for him) to try to voice it. What does he expect you to do with the new set?

I run into this periodically, a customer who claims to know everything and knows nothing but what they read in some chat room. I usually walk away  

What kind of piano, btw, and what hammer did he insist on?. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 20:34
From: Scott Cole
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

I agree with David L. The rehung old hammers will almost certainly not go back on the way they were originally, it's much more difficult to hang ill fitting hammers. At minimum, you will have to file and shape them; so they probably won't sound like they did before in the piano. Then what? I wouldn't want to take responsibility for that, it's too problematic. Does the customer think it's like changing tires on a car? 

With two hung hammer sets at least you can easily do side by side comparisons. This customer is costing you a lot of time just fielding their issues. Make it clear to them that they have to pay you to indulge them.

Btw, this would have been a disaster for me as I cut the old hammers off when I'm replacing them.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 21:40
From: David Love
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

If he requested the hammers be rehung and chose the hammer and refused your suggestions about samples then I would tell him you can rehang the old hammers but it will require a new shank for reasons mentioned and I would charge for the parts and labor. You can leave him the new set, shanks attached, in case he changes his mind again.

Customers who side step your expertise and make their own choices are responsible for the outcome. This is not your problem, but you can help him resolve it at his expense. I would also tell him that before he spends the money on putting it back as it was it makes more economic sense (for him) to try to voice it. What does he expect you to do with the new set?

I run into this periodically, a customer who claims to know everything and knows nothing but what they read in some chat room. I usually walk away  

What kind of piano, btw, and what hammer did he insist on?. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 20:34
From: Scott Cole
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

I agree with David L. The rehung old hammers will almost certainly not go back on the way they were originally, it's much more difficult to hang ill fitting hammers. At minimum, you will have to file and shape them; so they probably won't sound like they did before in the piano. Then what? I wouldn't want to take responsibility for that, it's too problematic. Does the customer think it's like changing tires on a car? 

With two hung hammer sets at least you can easily do side by side comparisons. This customer is costing you a lot of time just fielding their issues. Make it clear to them that they have to pay you to indulge them.

Btw, this would have been a disaster for me as I cut the old hammers off when I'm replacing them.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 21:40
From: David Love
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

If he requested the hammers be rehung and chose the hammer and refused your suggestions about samples then I would tell him you can rehang the old hammers but it will require a new shank for reasons mentioned and I would charge for the parts and labor. You can leave him the new set, shanks attached, in case he changes his mind again.

Customers who side step your expertise and make their own choices are responsible for the outcome. This is not your problem, but you can help him resolve it at his expense. I would also tell him that before he spends the money on putting it back as it was it makes more economic sense (for him) to try to voice it. What does he expect you to do with the new set?

I run into this periodically, a customer who claims to know everything and knows nothing but what they read in some chat room. I usually walk away  

What kind of piano, btw, and what hammer did he insist on?. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 20:34
From: Scott Cole
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

If he requested the hammers be rehung and chose the hammer and refused your suggestions about samples then I would tell him you can rehang the old hammers but it will require a new shank for reasons mentioned and I would charge for the parts and labor. You can leave him the new set, shanks attached, in case he changes his mind again.

Customers who side step your expertise and make their own choices are responsible for the outcome. This is not your problem, but you can help him resolve it at his expense. I would also tell him that before he spends the money on putting it back as it was it makes more economic sense (for him) to try to voice it. What does he expect you to do with the new set?

I run into this periodically, a customer who claims to know everything and knows nothing but what they read in some chat room. I usually walk away  

What kind of piano, btw, and what hammer did he insist on?. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 20:34
From: Scott Cole
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

There is another option. I would take 2-3 of the old hammers: #16, #40, #64 (so those are all Cs).  I would hang those on some spare shanks you have, leave the new hammers in place, and then put those three old hammers back on and do a side by side comparison and voice the new hammers to where he wants them based on the old hammers rather than guess about what he's after (he doesn't know either btw).  Tell him you simply can't rehang the hammers back on the old shanks because of the modifications you had to make in order to spare him the cost of new shanks.  Explain that voicing is a moving target (along with tuning and regulation) and he has to expect to not only voice these new hammers to the kind of tone he likes but to maintain them as an ongoing part of servicing the piano.  I often use the analogy when explaining what's involved in piano servicing, that you can't expect your car to run well by just changing the oil and nothing else.  Most people get that.  

Or, he can do what I suggested earlier.  I'm with Steve on this in that those old hammers would already be in the garbage.  

I like to accommodate customers when they are reasonable, but this is not reasonable by pretty much any measure, certainly if he expects you to eat the cost of parts or labor.  If I talk someone into something (which I try not to do) that's one thing.  If they take it upon themselves to disregard your suggestions and make the decision themselves, then it's on them.  

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 21:40
From: David Love
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

If he requested the hammers be rehung and chose the hammer and refused your suggestions about samples then I would tell him you can rehang the old hammers but it will require a new shank for reasons mentioned and I would charge for the parts and labor. You can leave him the new set, shanks attached, in case he changes his mind again.

Customers who side step your expertise and make their own choices are responsible for the outcome. This is not your problem, but you can help him resolve it at his expense. I would also tell him that before he spends the money on putting it back as it was it makes more economic sense (for him) to try to voice it. What does he expect you to do with the new set?

I run into this periodically, a customer who claims to know everything and knows nothing but what they read in some chat room. I usually walk away  

What kind of piano, btw, and what hammer did he insist on?. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 20:34
From: Scott Cole
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

Mr. Cole,

I agree with Mr. Love and others that this is your customers problem and not yours.

That said I have had this situation (with hammers not customers) multiple times.

I've used Bolduc glue and Titebond Q&T with good results. Bolduc glue dries harder and is easier to reverse with heat. Titebond Q&T makes prettier glue collars but is rubbery and tough to remove from the shanks if you have to remove one or more hammers.

 My method is to use a 1/4" countersink lightly on the proximal side of the hammer to provide increased strength for the glue collar. I use a 3/16" piece of nylon rod to put glue in the holes of 5 hammers at a time and then use the same rod to put glue on 5 shanks. I then spin the hammers on and check alignment with a straight edge while I can still move the hammers. I have to move quickly as the glue sets faster than you'd think. I've not had any glue failures with this method and I've had multiple sets in service for years. The same technique will work with hide glue but I'm just not good at working with it.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 20:34
From: Scott Cole
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

Thanks all for the answers.

I'm happy to report that I picked up the action yesterday, removed sample hammers, and found that, contrary to what I expected, the shanks are now perfectly tight on the hammers I need to install. It's not just old glue--it will still take a bit of shank reduction. So, new shanks are unnecessary.

I'm not sure why this is, but I can imagine that moisture from the glue sizes the shanks.

I still think, however, that exploring how to handle shanks that are too narrow (or possibly, hammers with too-large bore holes) could be the topic of some experimentation. I have plenty of old hammers and shanks--maybe I'll do my own experiments and see what works and what doesn't.

Just a response to Karl: I did indeed use Titebond Quick & Thick on the current hammers. After applying heat with a hair-straightening iron for 1 minute, the glue came away very cleanly on both shanks and hammers. Previously, I actually had a little more trouble picking off the original Kawai factory glue, but with enough heat, even that can be peeled away from both hammer and shank without too much effort (as long as at least 1 minute of heat is applied).

thanks again!

Mr. Cole,

I agree with Mr. Love and others that this is your customers problem and not yours.

That said I have had this situation (with hammers not customers) multiple times.

I've used Bolduc glue and Titebond Q&T with good results. Bolduc glue dries harder and is easier to reverse with heat. Titebond Q&T makes prettier glue collars but is rubbery and tough to remove from the shanks if you have to remove one or more hammers.

 My method is to use a 1/4" countersink lightly on the proximal side of the hammer to provide increased strength for the glue collar. I use a 3/16" piece of nylon rod to put glue in the holes of 5 hammers at a time and then use the same rod to put glue on 5 shanks. I then spin the hammers on and check alignment with a straight edge while I can still move the hammers. I have to move quickly as the glue sets faster than you'd think. I've not had any glue failures with this method and I've had multiple sets in service for years. The same technique will work with hide glue but I'm just not good at working with it.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2025 20:34
From: Scott Cole
Subject: overly reduced shank fix?

Greetings all,

I recently hung new hammers on a grand at the owner's request. It was slightly unusual situation in that he didn't want me to hang some samples to see how they sounded, and wouldn't let me voice the existing hammers. He just demanded I order these hammers and install them, period. He was happy for a week, then claimed they suddenly got too loud and is now demanding that I rehang the old hammers. Again, the customer won't consider any other measures I've suggested, including voicing the current hammers (which, in my opinion, sound beautiful), or trying any sound abatement treatment in the home or in the piano.  

I've agreed to rehang the old hammers, but I have one concern: in order to hang the new set, I had to reduce the shanks a bit. The hole diameter was just too tight, especially since they weren't as precisely drilled as the factory set and I needed a little play for proper alignment. So, my worry is that the old hammers may be too loose for good structural integrity. (I haven't retrieved the action yet, but I want to be ready just in case...).

If that were to be the case, are there any fixes for loose hammers? Can the shanks be swelled at all with moisture? Are there glues that might work better in this situation (better gap filling)? Currently I use Tightbond Quick & Thick to hang hammers. Of course, the ultimate solution would be new shanks, but I don't want to go there if necessary.

I don't have the action back yet, and I'm hoping this won't be an issue. But I'm sure it must come up occasionally. Are there any quidelines for what you'd consider "too loose"?

thanks!

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------