Pianotech

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

A couple  tips regarding wood plugs. Maple, maple pinblock and most hardwoods won't work. I found two pinblock materials that work great. Both are super heavy and with many layers.. I believe one is delignit and the other is a highly resin impregnated material( i cant remember the name but, i think Balwin used it). Don't make the plug round. Use Epoxy or Titebond 50 for gluing. Some fill the hole with epoxy and drill a new hole, but i never liked the feel.

-chris

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

That other material would be Falconwood.  It used to be available from Great Lakes Piano Supply, but apparently Tim Dixon has retired, and the website for the business no longer exists.  Is anyone here aware of how to source Falconwood plugs in 2024?

I was coached to drill the hole for the plug for an interference fit, and then to sand the plug slightly in the direction of an octagon

A couple  tips regarding wood plugs. Maple, maple pinblock and most hardwoods won't work. I found two pinblock materials that work great. Both are super heavy and with many layers.. I believe one is delignit and the other is a highly resin impregnated material( i cant remember the name but, i think Balwin used it). Don't make the plug round. Use Epoxy or Titebond 50 for gluing. Some fill the hole with epoxy and drill a new hole, but i never liked the feel.

-chris

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

Tim Dixon:  414-587-9629

That other material would be Falconwood.  It used to be available from Great Lakes Piano Supply, but apparently Tim Dixon has retired, and the website for the business no longer exists.  Is anyone here aware of how to source Falconwood plugs in 2024?

I was coached to drill the hole for the plug for an interference fit, and then to sand the plug slightly in the direction of an octagon

A couple  tips regarding wood plugs. Maple, maple pinblock and most hardwoods won't work. I found two pinblock materials that work great. Both are super heavy and with many layers.. I believe one is delignit and the other is a highly resin impregnated material( i cant remember the name but, i think Balwin used it). Don't make the plug round. Use Epoxy or Titebond 50 for gluing. Some fill the hole with epoxy and drill a new hole, but i never liked the feel.

-chris

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

A couple  tips regarding wood plugs. Maple, maple pinblock and most hardwoods won't work. I found two pinblock materials that work great. Both are super heavy and with many layers.. I believe one is delignit and the other is a highly resin impregnated material( i cant remember the name but, i think Balwin used it). Don't make the plug round. Use Epoxy or Titebond 50 for gluing. Some fill the hole with epoxy and drill a new hole, but i never liked the feel.

-chris

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

Allied Piano has (roughly) 11 ply maple plugs available. I bought a few, haven't used them yet. It's definitely the right solution to the problem. CA glue is often a "fast solution" but using multi-ply plugs was recommended by Kent Webb (S&S tech rep in the recent past) and other experts in our field.

A couple  tips regarding wood plugs. Maple, maple pinblock and most hardwoods won't work. I found two pinblock materials that work great. Both are super heavy and with many layers.. I believe one is delignit and the other is a highly resin impregnated material( i cant remember the name but, i think Balwin used it). Don't make the plug round. Use Epoxy or Titebond 50 for gluing. Some fill the hole with epoxy and drill a new hole, but i never liked the feel.

-chris

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

I don't think I'd have the guts to try drilling a hole of that size up from the bottom of the block. I would be afraid that I'd do more damage. 

I would opt for the "fill-n-drill" method where one fills the hole right up to the top with very strong epoxy (if you want to drill it out a wee bit more prior to filling for more wall thickness, that's your prerogative). After cure time, bore the TP hole through the epoxy and install your pin (original pin). Typically one would not bore the same size hole as was originally done in wood since the compression factor of the epoxy is significantly different than the original maple. One might want to treat it AS IF it was Falconwood. (Not a bad idea to test the protocol in a piece of old scrap stock first). 

I've done it...it works. You'd never spot the pin later as the feel is identical. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Allied Piano has (roughly) 11 ply maple plugs available. I bought a few, haven't used them yet. It's definitely the right solution to the problem. CA glue is often a "fast solution" but using multi-ply plugs was recommended by Kent Webb (S&S tech rep in the recent past) and other experts in our field.

A couple  tips regarding wood plugs. Maple, maple pinblock and most hardwoods won't work. I found two pinblock materials that work great. Both are super heavy and with many layers.. I believe one is delignit and the other is a highly resin impregnated material( i cant remember the name but, i think Balwin used it). Don't make the plug round. Use Epoxy or Titebond 50 for gluing. Some fill the hole with epoxy and drill a new hole, but i never liked the feel.

-chris

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

The Falconwood plug I am holding in my hand measures 5.009 inches in diameter.  I just grabbed a cordless drill, chucked up a 1/2" twist drill and bored into a 2x4.  That's a bit of a sloppy way to drill.  The plug was a tight fit in hole, but it could have been hammered in.  A bit of file work on a spade bit will allow you to tweak your hole diameter if necessary.  Sanding some flat faces, maybe 6 or so, around the circumference of the plug will allow you to localize the interference, and will also make a bit of room for the adhesive in the joint.

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

I think you mean .504  just over 1/2 inch.  On advice of Tim Dixon I drilled using 17/32 for 1/2 plug.  Then bore bottom flat with Forstner bit.

Epoxy is best.  Do not drill 1/2 hole for plug.  You will glue starve the joint.  I also like to preheat my plugs to ensure maximum dryness. An

old plate warmer works well.

The Falconwood plug I am holding in my hand measures 5.009 inches in diameter.  I just grabbed a cordless drill, chucked up a 1/2" twist drill and bored into a 2x4.  That's a bit of a sloppy way to drill.  The plug was a tight fit in hole, but it could have been hammered in.  A bit of file work on a spade bit will allow you to tweak your hole diameter if necessary.  Sanding some flat faces, maybe 6 or so, around the circumference of the plug will allow you to localize the interference, and will also make a bit of room for the adhesive in the joint.

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

I meant .509 Inches.  9 thousandths oversize.  I don't think you'll find 17/32 in a spade bit.  The flat faces sanded on the plug should mitigate against glue starving.

I think you mean .504  just over 1/2 inch.  On advice of Tim Dixon I drilled using 17/32 for 1/2 plug.  Then bore bottom flat with Forstner bit.

Epoxy is best.  Do not drill 1/2 hole for plug.  You will glue starve the joint.  I also like to preheat my plugs to ensure maximum dryness. An

old plate warmer works well.

The Falconwood plug I am holding in my hand measures 5.009 inches in diameter.  I just grabbed a cordless drill, chucked up a 1/2" twist drill and bored into a 2x4.  That's a bit of a sloppy way to drill.  The plug was a tight fit in hole, but it could have been hammered in.  A bit of file work on a spade bit will allow you to tweak your hole diameter if necessary.  Sanding some flat faces, maybe 6 or so, around the circumference of the plug will allow you to localize the interference, and will also make a bit of room for the adhesive in the joint.

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

A spade bit is a poor choice for drilling an existing hole:  use a twist bit or a forstner bit

I meant .509 Inches.  9 thousandths oversize.  I don't think you'll find 17/32 in a spade bit.  The flat faces sanded on the plug should mitigate against glue starving.

I think you mean .504  just over 1/2 inch.  On advice of Tim Dixon I drilled using 17/32 for 1/2 plug.  Then bore bottom flat with Forstner bit.

Epoxy is best.  Do not drill 1/2 hole for plug.  You will glue starve the joint.  I also like to preheat my plugs to ensure maximum dryness. An

old plate warmer works well.

The Falconwood plug I am holding in my hand measures 5.009 inches in diameter.  I just grabbed a cordless drill, chucked up a 1/2" twist drill and bored into a 2x4.  That's a bit of a sloppy way to drill.  The plug was a tight fit in hole, but it could have been hammered in.  A bit of file work on a spade bit will allow you to tweak your hole diameter if necessary.  Sanding some flat faces, maybe 6 or so, around the circumference of the plug will allow you to localize the interference, and will also make a bit of room for the adhesive in the joint.

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

Hi All,

Just want to add 2 cents. Although all the suggestions are good, I'm wondering about the original attempt to "glue" in shims. When I have used shims in the past, I've never bothered to use glue. If you're trying to glue the veneer in place first, it won't work. If the fit with the shim is properly tight, the pin will draw the shim (or 2) in. You put the shim(s) in 1/2-ish of the way, then hammer the pin in. When the shim is at the right level, you screw the pin in the rest of the way. I know people don't like screwing the pin in, but I've done this several times with great success. Recently, I used one of those old metal shims, also with great success. Before doing anything more drastic, I'd consider trying to shim in this way. Otherwise, the glue methods are also a reasonable suggestion. I have had less reliable success with glue, so avoid it these days, but still have had success with it. 

Good Luck!

Maggie

A spade bit is a poor choice for drilling an existing hole:  use a twist bit or a forstner bit

I meant .509 Inches.  9 thousandths oversize.  I don't think you'll find 17/32 in a spade bit.  The flat faces sanded on the plug should mitigate against glue starving.

I think you mean .504  just over 1/2 inch.  On advice of Tim Dixon I drilled using 17/32 for 1/2 plug.  Then bore bottom flat with Forstner bit.

Epoxy is best.  Do not drill 1/2 hole for plug.  You will glue starve the joint.  I also like to preheat my plugs to ensure maximum dryness. An

old plate warmer works well.

The Falconwood plug I am holding in my hand measures 5.009 inches in diameter.  I just grabbed a cordless drill, chucked up a 1/2" twist drill and bored into a 2x4.  That's a bit of a sloppy way to drill.  The plug was a tight fit in hole, but it could have been hammered in.  A bit of file work on a spade bit will allow you to tweak your hole diameter if necessary.  Sanding some flat faces, maybe 6 or so, around the circumference of the plug will allow you to localize the interference, and will also make a bit of room for the adhesive in the joint.

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

Back in the day, I used finer grit sandpaper as a shim for this (paper side towards the tuning pin, as someone has already mentioned in this thread). Never found it necessary to use glue. Always pounded the pin in to the desired height (removing the action and supporting the pin block in grands).

But for many years now, thin CA glue applied at the base of the tuning pin has solved the vast majority of loose pin issues that have come my way. It's much quicker (and therefore less expensive for the client), and in the 1% of cases in which CA doesn't do the trick, a shim can always be done. Because of the high success rate of CA, it is always worth attempting first in my experience. (Blessings upon whoever realized the utility of CA in our work!) YMMV

Alan

Hi All,

Just want to add 2 cents. Although all the suggestions are good, I'm wondering about the original attempt to "glue" in shims. When I have used shims in the past, I've never bothered to use glue. If you're trying to glue the veneer in place first, it won't work. If the fit with the shim is properly tight, the pin will draw the shim (or 2) in. You put the shim(s) in 1/2-ish of the way, then hammer the pin in. When the shim is at the right level, you screw the pin in the rest of the way. I know people don't like screwing the pin in, but I've done this several times with great success. Recently, I used one of those old metal shims, also with great success. Before doing anything more drastic, I'd consider trying to shim in this way. Otherwise, the glue methods are also a reasonable suggestion. I have had less reliable success with glue, so avoid it these days, but still have had success with it. 

Good Luck!

Maggie

A spade bit is a poor choice for drilling an existing hole:  use a twist bit or a forstner bit

I meant .509 Inches.  9 thousandths oversize.  I don't think you'll find 17/32 in a spade bit.  The flat faces sanded on the plug should mitigate against glue starving.

I think you mean .504  just over 1/2 inch.  On advice of Tim Dixon I drilled using 17/32 for 1/2 plug.  Then bore bottom flat with Forstner bit.

Epoxy is best.  Do not drill 1/2 hole for plug.  You will glue starve the joint.  I also like to preheat my plugs to ensure maximum dryness. An

old plate warmer works well.

The Falconwood plug I am holding in my hand measures 5.009 inches in diameter.  I just grabbed a cordless drill, chucked up a 1/2" twist drill and bored into a 2x4.  That's a bit of a sloppy way to drill.  The plug was a tight fit in hole, but it could have been hammered in.  A bit of file work on a spade bit will allow you to tweak your hole diameter if necessary.  Sanding some flat faces, maybe 6 or so, around the circumference of the plug will allow you to localize the interference, and will also make a bit of room for the adhesive in the joint.

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

Hi, Alan! Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "base" of the pin? Do you mean the base of the exposed pin just below the coil, or do you mean the actual base of the pin down under? Thanks!

Back in the day, I used finer grit sandpaper as a shim for this (paper side towards the tuning pin, as someone has already mentioned in this thread). Never found it necessary to use glue. Always pounded the pin in to the desired height (removing the action and supporting the pin block in grands).

But for many years now, thin CA glue applied at the base of the tuning pin has solved the vast majority of loose pin issues that have come my way. It's much quicker (and therefore less expensive for the client), and in the 1% of cases in which CA doesn't do the trick, a shim can always be done. Because of the high success rate of CA, it is always worth attempting first in my experience. (Blessings upon whoever realized the utility of CA in our work!) YMMV

Alan

Hi All,

Just want to add 2 cents. Although all the suggestions are good, I'm wondering about the original attempt to "glue" in shims. When I have used shims in the past, I've never bothered to use glue. If you're trying to glue the veneer in place first, it won't work. If the fit with the shim is properly tight, the pin will draw the shim (or 2) in. You put the shim(s) in 1/2-ish of the way, then hammer the pin in. When the shim is at the right level, you screw the pin in the rest of the way. I know people don't like screwing the pin in, but I've done this several times with great success. Recently, I used one of those old metal shims, also with great success. Before doing anything more drastic, I'd consider trying to shim in this way. Otherwise, the glue methods are also a reasonable suggestion. I have had less reliable success with glue, so avoid it these days, but still have had success with it. 

Good Luck!

Maggie

A spade bit is a poor choice for drilling an existing hole:  use a twist bit or a forstner bit

I meant .509 Inches.  9 thousandths oversize.  I don't think you'll find 17/32 in a spade bit.  The flat faces sanded on the plug should mitigate against glue starving.

I think you mean .504  just over 1/2 inch.  On advice of Tim Dixon I drilled using 17/32 for 1/2 plug.  Then bore bottom flat with Forstner bit.

Epoxy is best.  Do not drill 1/2 hole for plug.  You will glue starve the joint.  I also like to preheat my plugs to ensure maximum dryness. An

old plate warmer works well.

The Falconwood plug I am holding in my hand measures 5.009 inches in diameter.  I just grabbed a cordless drill, chucked up a 1/2" twist drill and bored into a 2x4.  That's a bit of a sloppy way to drill.  The plug was a tight fit in hole, but it could have been hammered in.  A bit of file work on a spade bit will allow you to tweak your hole diameter if necessary.  Sanding some flat faces, maybe 6 or so, around the circumference of the plug will allow you to localize the interference, and will also make a bit of room for the adhesive in the joint.

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

Thanks for requesting clarification of my somewhat ambiguous explanation, Maggie!

Personally, I apply the CA to the base of the pin just under the coli (i. e., above the pin block).

However, I have heard of other techs inverting the piano (if a grand) and applying the CA from (what would normally be) the bottom of the pin block.

Alan

Hi, Alan! Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "base" of the pin? Do you mean the base of the exposed pin just below the coil, or do you mean the actual base of the pin down under? Thanks!

Back in the day, I used finer grit sandpaper as a shim for this (paper side towards the tuning pin, as someone has already mentioned in this thread). Never found it necessary to use glue. Always pounded the pin in to the desired height (removing the action and supporting the pin block in grands).

But for many years now, thin CA glue applied at the base of the tuning pin has solved the vast majority of loose pin issues that have come my way. It's much quicker (and therefore less expensive for the client), and in the 1% of cases in which CA doesn't do the trick, a shim can always be done. Because of the high success rate of CA, it is always worth attempting first in my experience. (Blessings upon whoever realized the utility of CA in our work!) YMMV

Alan

Hi All,

Just want to add 2 cents. Although all the suggestions are good, I'm wondering about the original attempt to "glue" in shims. When I have used shims in the past, I've never bothered to use glue. If you're trying to glue the veneer in place first, it won't work. If the fit with the shim is properly tight, the pin will draw the shim (or 2) in. You put the shim(s) in 1/2-ish of the way, then hammer the pin in. When the shim is at the right level, you screw the pin in the rest of the way. I know people don't like screwing the pin in, but I've done this several times with great success. Recently, I used one of those old metal shims, also with great success. Before doing anything more drastic, I'd consider trying to shim in this way. Otherwise, the glue methods are also a reasonable suggestion. I have had less reliable success with glue, so avoid it these days, but still have had success with it. 

Good Luck!

Maggie

A spade bit is a poor choice for drilling an existing hole:  use a twist bit or a forstner bit

I meant .509 Inches.  9 thousandths oversize.  I don't think you'll find 17/32 in a spade bit.  The flat faces sanded on the plug should mitigate against glue starving.

I think you mean .504  just over 1/2 inch.  On advice of Tim Dixon I drilled using 17/32 for 1/2 plug.  Then bore bottom flat with Forstner bit.

Epoxy is best.  Do not drill 1/2 hole for plug.  You will glue starve the joint.  I also like to preheat my plugs to ensure maximum dryness. An

old plate warmer works well.

The Falconwood plug I am holding in my hand measures 5.009 inches in diameter.  I just grabbed a cordless drill, chucked up a 1/2" twist drill and bored into a 2x4.  That's a bit of a sloppy way to drill.  The plug was a tight fit in hole, but it could have been hammered in.  A bit of file work on a spade bit will allow you to tweak your hole diameter if necessary.  Sanding some flat faces, maybe 6 or so, around the circumference of the plug will allow you to localize the interference, and will also make a bit of room for the adhesive in the joint.

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

Wow! I've experimented with removing the pin, using a q-tip to put a layer of CA in the hole, then replacing the pin after it dries. It has been working for me WAY better than just dropping it in as you describe, but I've done that plenty. I've not had the same luck as others with it, so I avoid it these days, but many others swear by it. I think it's because I'm working with pins that are far more loose than most deal with. Not sure. Sorry for the side track of topic but thanks for the clarification! 

Thanks for requesting clarification of my somewhat ambiguous explanation, Maggie!

Personally, I apply the CA to the base of the pin just under the coli (i. e., above the pin block).

However, I have heard of other techs inverting the piano (if a grand) and applying the CA from (what would normally be) the bottom of the pin block.

Alan

Hi, Alan! Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "base" of the pin? Do you mean the base of the exposed pin just below the coil, or do you mean the actual base of the pin down under? Thanks!

Back in the day, I used finer grit sandpaper as a shim for this (paper side towards the tuning pin, as someone has already mentioned in this thread). Never found it necessary to use glue. Always pounded the pin in to the desired height (removing the action and supporting the pin block in grands).

But for many years now, thin CA glue applied at the base of the tuning pin has solved the vast majority of loose pin issues that have come my way. It's much quicker (and therefore less expensive for the client), and in the 1% of cases in which CA doesn't do the trick, a shim can always be done. Because of the high success rate of CA, it is always worth attempting first in my experience. (Blessings upon whoever realized the utility of CA in our work!) YMMV

Alan

Hi All,

Just want to add 2 cents. Although all the suggestions are good, I'm wondering about the original attempt to "glue" in shims. When I have used shims in the past, I've never bothered to use glue. If you're trying to glue the veneer in place first, it won't work. If the fit with the shim is properly tight, the pin will draw the shim (or 2) in. You put the shim(s) in 1/2-ish of the way, then hammer the pin in. When the shim is at the right level, you screw the pin in the rest of the way. I know people don't like screwing the pin in, but I've done this several times with great success. Recently, I used one of those old metal shims, also with great success. Before doing anything more drastic, I'd consider trying to shim in this way. Otherwise, the glue methods are also a reasonable suggestion. I have had less reliable success with glue, so avoid it these days, but still have had success with it. 

Good Luck!

Maggie

A spade bit is a poor choice for drilling an existing hole:  use a twist bit or a forstner bit

I meant .509 Inches.  9 thousandths oversize.  I don't think you'll find 17/32 in a spade bit.  The flat faces sanded on the plug should mitigate against glue starving.

I think you mean .504  just over 1/2 inch.  On advice of Tim Dixon I drilled using 17/32 for 1/2 plug.  Then bore bottom flat with Forstner bit.

Epoxy is best.  Do not drill 1/2 hole for plug.  You will glue starve the joint.  I also like to preheat my plugs to ensure maximum dryness. An

old plate warmer works well.

The Falconwood plug I am holding in my hand measures 5.009 inches in diameter.  I just grabbed a cordless drill, chucked up a 1/2" twist drill and bored into a 2x4.  That's a bit of a sloppy way to drill.  The plug was a tight fit in hole, but it could have been hammered in.  A bit of file work on a spade bit will allow you to tweak your hole diameter if necessary.  Sanding some flat faces, maybe 6 or so, around the circumference of the plug will allow you to localize the interference, and will also make a bit of room for the adhesive in the joint.

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

Maggie, two questions.

Do you pound or screw the pin back in?

Doesn't the CA kick off as soon as you apply it to a q-tip?

Wow! I've experimented with removing the pin, using a q-tip to put a layer of CA in the hole, then replacing the pin after it dries. It has been working for me WAY better than just dropping it in as you describe, but I've done that plenty. I've not had the same luck as others with it, so I avoid it these days, but many others swear by it. I think it's because I'm working with pins that are far more loose than most deal with. Not sure. Sorry for the side track of topic but thanks for the clarification! 

Thanks for requesting clarification of my somewhat ambiguous explanation, Maggie!

Personally, I apply the CA to the base of the pin just under the coli (i. e., above the pin block).

However, I have heard of other techs inverting the piano (if a grand) and applying the CA from (what would normally be) the bottom of the pin block.

Alan

Hi, Alan! Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "base" of the pin? Do you mean the base of the exposed pin just below the coil, or do you mean the actual base of the pin down under? Thanks!

Back in the day, I used finer grit sandpaper as a shim for this (paper side towards the tuning pin, as someone has already mentioned in this thread). Never found it necessary to use glue. Always pounded the pin in to the desired height (removing the action and supporting the pin block in grands).

But for many years now, thin CA glue applied at the base of the tuning pin has solved the vast majority of loose pin issues that have come my way. It's much quicker (and therefore less expensive for the client), and in the 1% of cases in which CA doesn't do the trick, a shim can always be done. Because of the high success rate of CA, it is always worth attempting first in my experience. (Blessings upon whoever realized the utility of CA in our work!) YMMV

Alan

Hi All,

Just want to add 2 cents. Although all the suggestions are good, I'm wondering about the original attempt to "glue" in shims. When I have used shims in the past, I've never bothered to use glue. If you're trying to glue the veneer in place first, it won't work. If the fit with the shim is properly tight, the pin will draw the shim (or 2) in. You put the shim(s) in 1/2-ish of the way, then hammer the pin in. When the shim is at the right level, you screw the pin in the rest of the way. I know people don't like screwing the pin in, but I've done this several times with great success. Recently, I used one of those old metal shims, also with great success. Before doing anything more drastic, I'd consider trying to shim in this way. Otherwise, the glue methods are also a reasonable suggestion. I have had less reliable success with glue, so avoid it these days, but still have had success with it. 

Good Luck!

Maggie

A spade bit is a poor choice for drilling an existing hole:  use a twist bit or a forstner bit

I meant .509 Inches.  9 thousandths oversize.  I don't think you'll find 17/32 in a spade bit.  The flat faces sanded on the plug should mitigate against glue starving.

I think you mean .504  just over 1/2 inch.  On advice of Tim Dixon I drilled using 17/32 for 1/2 plug.  Then bore bottom flat with Forstner bit.

Epoxy is best.  Do not drill 1/2 hole for plug.  You will glue starve the joint.  I also like to preheat my plugs to ensure maximum dryness. An

old plate warmer works well.

The Falconwood plug I am holding in my hand measures 5.009 inches in diameter.  I just grabbed a cordless drill, chucked up a 1/2" twist drill and bored into a 2x4.  That's a bit of a sloppy way to drill.  The plug was a tight fit in hole, but it could have been hammered in.  A bit of file work on a spade bit will allow you to tweak your hole diameter if necessary.  Sanding some flat faces, maybe 6 or so, around the circumference of the plug will allow you to localize the interference, and will also make a bit of room for the adhesive in the joint.

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

A spade bit is a poor choice for drilling an existing hole:  use a twist bit or a forstner bit

I meant .509 Inches.  9 thousandths oversize.  I don't think you'll find 17/32 in a spade bit.  The flat faces sanded on the plug should mitigate against glue starving.

I think you mean .504  just over 1/2 inch.  On advice of Tim Dixon I drilled using 17/32 for 1/2 plug.  Then bore bottom flat with Forstner bit.

Epoxy is best.  Do not drill 1/2 hole for plug.  You will glue starve the joint.  I also like to preheat my plugs to ensure maximum dryness. An

old plate warmer works well.

The Falconwood plug I am holding in my hand measures 5.009 inches in diameter.  I just grabbed a cordless drill, chucked up a 1/2" twist drill and bored into a 2x4.  That's a bit of a sloppy way to drill.  The plug was a tight fit in hole, but it could have been hammered in.  A bit of file work on a spade bit will allow you to tweak your hole diameter if necessary.  Sanding some flat faces, maybe 6 or so, around the circumference of the plug will allow you to localize the interference, and will also make a bit of room for the adhesive in the joint.

Bill,

I tend to use System Three Epoxy for this, though I suspect West System would work just as well (perhaps with the slow set hardener).

T-88 is a very strong epoxy from System Three

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
(603) 686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2024 12:13
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Thank you all for replying to my post with great ideas.  I've got some delignit plugs arriving from Allied Piano and I'm going to do some testing on an old pin block first.  I'm going to try the method of filling the hole with epoxy and drilling a new hole through that. What brand or type of epoxy do you use Peter?  I'm also going to experiment with the plugs. How do you drill for an interface fit Floyd? And thanks for the idea of using the spade bit. 
Bill

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2024 16:16
From: William Ryder
Subject: repairing oversized tuning pin hole with plug

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder

------------------------------
William Ryder RPT
Arcata CA
(707) 822-3319
------------------------------

Hello,

I am trying to repair an oversized tuning pin hole in a Steinway grand.  I have tried gluing wood veneer shims to the sides of the hole, to no avail.  At present I have a 5/0 tuning pin in there that is not holding pitch.  I think my best option would be to drill a larger hole in the pinblock and insert a maple plug.  However, the tuning pin holes in Steinway plates are very small, especially in the bass.  I feel it would be best to enlarge the hole by drilling from underneath the pinblock with a right angle drill.  Has anybody ever done this?  This is an old S&S model C that was completely rebuilt maybe 20 years ago.  I think there may have been some issues with the drilling of the new pinblock.  Anyway, the owner of the piano gave me a piece of left over wood from the pinblock installation that I can use to make a plug.

Please let me know if you have any ideas that would help.  Thank you.

Bill Ryder