Voicing

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Nate-

I was first exposed to side needling in 2007 while working the Bosendorfer/ Schimmel competition when I was a technician at Arizona State. Schimmel recommended side needling in the bass hammers in the wound strings to reduce some of the more metallic mid rangey sound that their concert grand had in that area. It worked to great effect and I continue to use the techniques.

Best-

David

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Nate-

I was first exposed to side needling in 2007 while working the Bosendorfer/ Schimmel competition when I was a technician at Arizona State. Schimmel recommended side needling in the bass hammers in the wound strings to reduce some of the more metallic mid rangey sound that their concert grand had in that area. It worked to great effect and I continue to use the techniques.

Best-

David

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

I'm curious to know that also. My somewhat limited experience with side voicing has been that it's largely ineffective, so I'd be interested to know how you got the results you did. 

Hi Nate-

I was first exposed to side needling in 2007 while working the Bosendorfer/ Schimmel competition when I was a technician at Arizona State. Schimmel recommended side needling in the bass hammers in the wound strings to reduce some of the more metallic mid rangey sound that their concert grand had in that area. It worked to great effect and I continue to use the techniques.

Best-

David

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

I'm curious to know that also. My somewhat limited experience with side voicing has been that it's largely ineffective, so I'd be interested to know how you got the results you did. 

Hi Nate-

I was first exposed to side needling in 2007 while working the Bosendorfer/ Schimmel competition when I was a technician at Arizona State. Schimmel recommended side needling in the bass hammers in the wound strings to reduce some of the more metallic mid rangey sound that their concert grand had in that area. It worked to great effect and I continue to use the techniques.

Best-

David

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Read   "Working With Hammers"  by Wally Brooks, Jr  RPT  available from Brooks Online.  Best thing I have ever read on the topic.

Instead of side needling get 10 Er Vice Grips,  grind the serrations smoothe,  use to squeeze the shoulders.  

I'm curious to know that also. My somewhat limited experience with side voicing has been that it's largely ineffective, so I'd be interested to know how you got the results you did. 

Hi Nate-

I was first exposed to side needling in 2007 while working the Bosendorfer/ Schimmel competition when I was a technician at Arizona State. Schimmel recommended side needling in the bass hammers in the wound strings to reduce some of the more metallic mid rangey sound that their concert grand had in that area. It worked to great effect and I continue to use the techniques.

Best-

David

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

I use the Jahn side needling pliers pictured here. Schimmel recommended that you use them parallel to the molding with the needles not moving past the tip of the molding in the shoulders moving from the molding out toward the outer edge. These pliers do require that you work from both sides.  Once you do it for a while it becomes pretty natural. This had a good effect on the hammers in these pianos to remove the sort of bongy, clangy sound in the upper wound strings. I found it works on other hammers as well. I wouldn't say it's a technique that I use every day, but it is in my arsenal.

DB

--

David C. Brown RPT

Garland Texas

214-288-9413

tunermandb88.com

Read   "Working With Hammers"  by Wally Brooks, Jr  RPT  available from Brooks Online.  Best thing I have ever read on the topic.

Instead of side needling get 10 Er Vice Grips,  grind the serrations smoothe,  use to squeeze the shoulders.  

I'm curious to know that also. My somewhat limited experience with side voicing has been that it's largely ineffective, so I'd be interested to know how you got the results you did. 

Hi Nate-

I was first exposed to side needling in 2007 while working the Bosendorfer/ Schimmel competition when I was a technician at Arizona State. Schimmel recommended side needling in the bass hammers in the wound strings to reduce some of the more metallic mid rangey sound that their concert grand had in that area. It worked to great effect and I continue to use the techniques.

Best-

David

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

I see that those needling pliers hold the hammer so that the needles are extracted from them by the action of the tool's springs. I can see that they would be useful. With the Bolduc tool, you really have to pull the needles out of the hammer after each insertion, at least, on the very dense hammers that I have tried them on, which makes them far more difficult to use. 

I use the Jahn side needling pliers pictured here. Schimmel recommended that you use them parallel to the molding with the needles not moving past the tip of the molding in the shoulders moving from the molding out toward the outer edge. These pliers do require that you work from both sides.  Once you do it for a while it becomes pretty natural. This had a good effect on the hammers in these pianos to remove the sort of bongy, clangy sound in the upper wound strings. I found it works on other hammers as well. I wouldn't say it's a technique that I use every day, but it is in my arsenal.

DB

--

David C. Brown RPT

Garland Texas

214-288-9413

tunermandb88.com

Read   "Working With Hammers"  by Wally Brooks, Jr  RPT  available from Brooks Online.  Best thing I have ever read on the topic.

Instead of side needling get 10 Er Vice Grips,  grind the serrations smoothe,  use to squeeze the shoulders.  

I'm curious to know that also. My somewhat limited experience with side voicing has been that it's largely ineffective, so I'd be interested to know how you got the results you did. 

Hi Nate-

I was first exposed to side needling in 2007 while working the Bosendorfer/ Schimmel competition when I was a technician at Arizona State. Schimmel recommended side needling in the bass hammers in the wound strings to reduce some of the more metallic mid rangey sound that their concert grand had in that area. It worked to great effect and I continue to use the techniques.

Best-

David

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

I see that those needling pliers hold the hammer so that the needles are extracted from them by the action of the tool's springs. I can see that they would be useful. With the Bolduc tool, you really have to pull the needles out of the hammer after each insertion, at least, on the very dense hammers that I have tried them on, which makes them far more difficult to use. 

I use the Jahn side needling pliers pictured here. Schimmel recommended that you use them parallel to the molding with the needles not moving past the tip of the molding in the shoulders moving from the molding out toward the outer edge. These pliers do require that you work from both sides.  Once you do it for a while it becomes pretty natural. This had a good effect on the hammers in these pianos to remove the sort of bongy, clangy sound in the upper wound strings. I found it works on other hammers as well. I wouldn't say it's a technique that I use every day, but it is in my arsenal.

DB

--

David C. Brown RPT

Garland Texas

214-288-9413

tunermandb88.com

Read   "Working With Hammers"  by Wally Brooks, Jr  RPT  available from Brooks Online.  Best thing I have ever read on the topic.

Instead of side needling get 10 Er Vice Grips,  grind the serrations smoothe,  use to squeeze the shoulders.  

I'm curious to know that also. My somewhat limited experience with side voicing has been that it's largely ineffective, so I'd be interested to know how you got the results you did. 

Hi Nate-

I was first exposed to side needling in 2007 while working the Bosendorfer/ Schimmel competition when I was a technician at Arizona State. Schimmel recommended side needling in the bass hammers in the wound strings to reduce some of the more metallic mid rangey sound that their concert grand had in that area. It worked to great effect and I continue to use the techniques.

Best-

David

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

July 2001, https://my.ptg.org/HigherLogic/System/DownloadDocumentFile.ashx?DocumentFileKey=c31d19e3-a6aa-0469-49dd-2ce6ab953913&forceDialog=0

(There's a journal search here that enabled me to find it: https://my.ptg.org/ptgeducation/index .  It is linked on the Home page but I think we need a more obvious navigation point personally).

I have used side needling with some success on badly worn hammers, on an older Baldwin grand.  I do believe it did a quicker and more long-lasting job than I could have accomplished with normal needling -- and is in my opinion less destructive if the goal is a large, permanent tone change.  They eventually got replaced anyway, but it bought the client a couple more years of not-so-horribly-glassy tone.

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

I have no vast experience with this technique, but I wonder, would squeezing with pliars have a similar effect?

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

I have no vast experience with this technique, but I wonder, would squeezing with pliars have a similar effect?

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Pliers are cheaper,  more efficient and don't run the risk of having to extract broken needles.  Read "Working With Hammers" by Wally Brooks

------------------------------
Parker Leigh RPT
Winchester VA
(540) 722-3865

Original Message:
Sent: 04-03-2024 00:59
From: Blaine Hebert
Subject: Side needle info

I have no vast experience with this technique, but I wonder, would squeezing with pliars have a similar effect?

------------------------------
Blaine Hebert RPT
Duarte CA
(626) 390-0512

Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2024 01:29
From: Nate Reyburn
Subject: Side needle info

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

------------------------------
All the finest,
Nate Reyburn, RPT

http://www.reyburntools.com
------------------------------

Did Wally's method 25 years ago.  Been there, done that.  Time to move on.

Pliers are cheaper,  more efficient and don't run the risk of having to extract broken needles.  Read "Working With Hammers" by Wally Brooks

I have no vast experience with this technique, but I wonder, would squeezing with pliars have a similar effect?

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Did Wally's method 25 years ago.  Been there, done that.  Time to move on.

Pliers are cheaper,  more efficient and don't run the risk of having to extract broken needles.  Read "Working With Hammers" by Wally Brooks

I have no vast experience with this technique, but I wonder, would squeezing with pliars have a similar effect?

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Did Wally's method 25 years ago.  Been there, done that.  Time to move on.

Pliers are cheaper,  more efficient and don't run the risk of having to extract broken needles.  Read "Working With Hammers" by Wally Brooks

I have no vast experience with this technique, but I wonder, would squeezing with pliars have a similar effect?

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Did Wally's method 25 years ago.  Been there, done that.  Time to move on.

Pliers are cheaper,  more efficient and don't run the risk of having to extract broken needles.  Read "Working With Hammers" by Wally Brooks

I have no vast experience with this technique, but I wonder, would squeezing with pliars have a similar effect?

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Did Wally's method 25 years ago.  Been there, done that.  Time to move on.

Pliers are cheaper,  more efficient and don't run the risk of having to extract broken needles.  Read "Working With Hammers" by Wally Brooks

I have no vast experience with this technique, but I wonder, would squeezing with pliars have a similar effect?

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Did Wally's method 25 years ago.  Been there, done that.  Time to move on.

Pliers are cheaper,  more efficient and don't run the risk of having to extract broken needles.  Read "Working With Hammers" by Wally Brooks

I have no vast experience with this technique, but I wonder, would squeezing with pliars have a similar effect?

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

Did Wally's method 25 years ago.  Been there, done that.  Time to move on.

Pliers are cheaper,  more efficient and don't run the risk of having to extract broken needles.  Read "Working With Hammers" by Wally Brooks

I have no vast experience with this technique, but I wonder, would squeezing with pliars have a similar effect?

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.

It was a well used Steinway O that I did the shoulder squeezing technique on and as I stated before, squeezing only the shoulders on the proximal side (closer to the keyboard) close to the mounding so as not to deform the hammers much. I was interested in getting rid of the loud and louder dynamic range to give the player a chance to play softly, yet not lose the power and loud capability it already had. It surprised me as to how well it worked, and did just what I was aiming for in short order. The hammers were not so worn that I needed to extensively reshape, except to remove the shelf the string cuts made, which didn't take long but did nothing to increase the dynamic range. I can't say it did anything more than increase the dynamic range, but in this case, it was enough. I am sure I didn't go all the way up to hammer 88, but can't say for sure how far I went up. Maybe half way through octave 6, and from there just used the needle pretty much at the crown.

Did Wally's method 25 years ago.  Been there, done that.  Time to move on.

Pliers are cheaper,  more efficient and don't run the risk of having to extract broken needles.  Read "Working With Hammers" by Wally Brooks

I have no vast experience with this technique, but I wonder, would squeezing with pliars have a similar effect?

Hi PTG Voicing,

I'm looking for some info on side needle voicing. I've seen Keith Akins' article "Voicing for the Rest of Us" referenced (Journal?), but I'm having trouble locating that. Any other experience or writeups available would be greatly appreciated.