Hi Dave,
I don't know what the problem is, but if there's a hard bump at let-off, I would first look to see where left-off occurs in relation to the straight line between the wippen flange center and the hammer flange center. All modern-style actions should escape somewhere under that line. But the closer you could get to that line, the smoother the escapement. What affects that is the hammer bore and knuckle size. Hammershanks that over-center tend to have smoother escapement.
So, if the key-bed to string height is less than normal, combined with parts that may have a large knuckle or a knuckle located in a different spot than the original design, then that might explain the issue.
Just thinking...
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Rick Butler RPT
The Butler School of Piano Technology
Bowie MD
240 396 7480
RickRickRickRickRick
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Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 13:44
From: Dave Conte
Subject: Steinway model B hard touch
Piano is 68 years old, but new Renner reps and h/s/f were installed by a predecessor.
Probably about 2008. He kept no records. I can see that the capstans were polished but
the flange rail cloth was not replaced and is tattered. The key mortices were refurbished
but the balance holes were not addressed, or at least not well done. Hard to tell what
his methodology was. My task is just to fix the piano.
It is an NY model B, so yes to accelerated action. Correct parts were used, so
alignment of jacks, rep cushions, etc. is not an issue. Key height and bedding were
already addressed when I regulated last year. This issue existed, but the retired professor
who had it did not mind the touch and in fact loved the piano. But he is retired and we must keep using it and it's a huge issue for everyone else. The biggest complaint came from the Assistant Director who is herself an accomplished pianist. The piano was moved to two different rehearsal spaces because of it.
The letoff buttons nor cloth were not replaced. Probably a contributing factor, but minor.
The biggest issue is just that there is such a noticeable bump and noise when
the reps contact the drop screw. making it hard to push through letoff, especially
when playing piano or pianissimo.
Dave
Original Message:
Sent: 10/7/2022 12:18:00 PM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Steinway model B hard touch
What year is the piano ? How is the wear on the whippen leather and the jack regulating button and rep lever felt button ? are jacks lined up with the knuckles ? how is the key height, key dip, aftertouch ? keyframe bedding ? Does it have the accelerated action ? what shape are the letoff buttons in
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James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 11:08
From: Dave Conte
Subject: Steinway model B hard touch
James,
Thanks for your reply.
I actually said the core was undersize. The wood that goes into the slot in the shank.
Can't do anything about the spread. This is a Steinway.
As I said, the hammers are being replaced. Not until I figure out the cause of the
hard bump and the noise. I understand that regulation will change the geometric relationships,
but not by enough to account for what is happening here. The regulation overall is good.
Spring tension changes along with the humidity, it's dynamic. I did back off the springs, but that made little difference. All of this was explained in the post. Hammer blow is not much of a factor
on the bench. Everything should work if within a range, which this is.
I loved the way LaRoy taught and learned a great deal from him. We had
many long conversations over the years. I miss him greatly.
Best,
Original Message:
Sent: 10/7/2022 10:49:00 AM
From: James Kelly
Subject: RE: Steinway model B hard touch
What do you mean by knuckle being undersize and loose fit ? If the hammers have been filed down too far put some new hammer heads on samples, re-set blow, letoff, drop and backchecks etc . The rep springs may be too strong at present but I would also check friction on the rep lever, jack, rep flanges and get the correct knuckles. It sounds like all of the action geometry is off including action spread. You have to get some samples to work. LaRoy Edwards said you get one note perfect then duplicate that 87 more times
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James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
(843) 325-4357
Original Message:
Sent: 10-07-2022 08:16
From: Dave Conte
Subject: Steinway model B hard touch
Working on an older Steinway B. The h/s/f and reps were replaced with Renner parts. Hammers have been filed down too far. Hard bump when rep contacts drop and letoff is good (almost simultaneous but about 1/16" drop). Bump is quite noticeable. Replaced knuckle on sample C4. Cycled through regulating the spring and balancier height again. Lubricated rep, knuckle and letoff button. Only slight improvement. Bump is audible. Balance hole is fairly snug with only very minimal chucking to account for some of the noise but most seems to be coming from the other parts when encountering drop screw. Have new SS hammer heads to install when this problem is resolved. New knuckles also, but the core is .005" undersize and fit is loose. Any thoughts would be appreciated. TIA.
Dave
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Dave Conte
University of Tennessee
Knoxville TN
(817) 307-5656
Owner: Rocky Top Piano
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