Pianotech

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

ProPTN has a rental program that might be helpful.

------------------------------
"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, Nebraska
www.thattuningguy.com

Original Message:
Sent: 11-30-2025 13:39
From: Cobrun Sells
Subject: Tuning Lever Tip/Head Angle

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

------------------------------
Cobrun Sells
cobrun94@yahoo.com
------------------------------

I prefer 5º for verticals as the lever will more or less be at right angles to the pin and a greater angle gives no advantage for back and forth flexing towards or away from the string as my hammer is usually up near 12 o'clock. On grands, the higher angle gives an advantage in that when the lever is at 2-3 o'clock, the angle will provide some back and forth downward flexing pressure towards or away from the string. When I was using a Fujan, I had two heads, now I'm using Supply 88's 'Kestrel' which has a fixed head that comes with a 15º head. But Mark had made some 5º heads so I now have 2 levers, one for verticals, one for grands. 

When I was using a traditional lever, I had a 20º head made by Jim Coleman Jr. that I liked very much for fine tuning on grands, pushing and pulling at 2-3 o'clock seemed to also provide just the right amount of down bearing on the pin and I found that I didn't have to reposition the lever on the pin as often for the final stroke. If I could get a Kestrel with a 20º, I'd probable spring for another lever.

Like Wim said, you have to find what feels best for you. Some of that hinges on your body type, your leverage on the pin has a lot to do with how tall one is, the height of the shoulder relative to the pins will affect how your lever feels to you.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 11-30-2025 14:37
From: Scott Kerns
Subject: Tuning Lever Tip/Head Angle

ProPTN has a rental program that might be helpful.

------------------------------
"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, Nebraska
www.thattuningguy.com

Original Message:
Sent: 11-30-2025 13:39
From: Cobrun Sells
Subject: Tuning Lever Tip/Head Angle

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

------------------------------
Cobrun Sells
cobrun94@yahoo.com
------------------------------

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

Oh,

I see now how a longer tip has more leverage in unintentional flagpoling. Okay, I didn't think of that.

I wasn't looking for opinions, I was looking for physical realities...i.e. too small of a head angle allows the lever to smack into the plate struts...as an example.

Paul, you answered that physical question.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

Original Message:
Sent: 11/30/2025 5:12:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: RE: Tuning Lever Tip/Head Angle

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 11-30-2025 15:43
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Tuning Lever Tip/Head Angle

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 11-30-2025 13:39
From: Cobrun Sells
Subject: Tuning Lever Tip/Head Angle

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

------------------------------
Cobrun Sells
cobrun94@yahoo.com
------------------------------

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

Original Message:
Sent: 12/1/2025 11:55:00 AM
From: John Ginter
Subject: RE: Tuning Lever Tip/Head Angle

Original Message:
Sent: 11/30/2025 10:24:00 PM
From: Cobrun Sells
Subject: RE: Tuning Lever Tip/Head Angle

Original Message:
Sent: 11/30/2025 5:12:00 PM
From: Alan Eder
Subject: RE: Tuning Lever Tip/Head Angle

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 11-30-2025 15:43
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Tuning Lever Tip/Head Angle

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

------------------------------
Paul McCloud, RPT
Accutone Piano Service
www.AccutonePianoService.com
pavadasa@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 11-30-2025 13:39
From: Cobrun Sells
Subject: Tuning Lever Tip/Head Angle

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

------------------------------
Cobrun Sells
cobrun94@yahoo.com
------------------------------

So, my main reason for looking is so I can have a lighter lever...to avoid long term issues. Here is what I found:

Kestrel 6oz (top heavy?)

Faulk 8.5oz (top heavy?)

Reyburn rigid ?.?oz

Fujan 10oz (my current)

Reyburn impact 10.5oz (top heavy because impact)

Cassotto impact 12oz (can be weighted more near head)

And, now understanding that a longer tip means easier flagpoling (which I use in my technique) 40mm is what I am looking for. I also measured and the difference between a 30mm tip/15⁰ head vs 40mm tip/10⁰ head would be

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

So, my main reason for looking is so I can have a lighter lever...to avoid long term issues. Here is what I found:

Kestrel 6oz (top heavy?)

Faulk 8.5oz (top heavy?)

Reyburn rigid ?.?oz

Fujan 10oz (my current)

Reyburn impact 10.5oz (top heavy because impact)

Cassotto impact 12oz (can be weighted more near head)

And, now understanding that a longer tip means easier flagpoling (which I use in my technique) 40mm is what I am looking for. I also measured and the difference between a 30mm tip/15⁰ head vs 40mm tip/10⁰ head would be

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

So, my main reason for looking is so I can have a lighter lever...to avoid long term issues. Here is what I found:

Kestrel 6oz (top heavy?)

Faulk 8.5oz (top heavy?)

Reyburn rigid ?.?oz

Fujan 10oz (my current)

Reyburn impact 10.5oz (top heavy because impact)

Cassotto impact 12oz (can be weighted more near head)

And, now understanding that a longer tip means easier flagpoling (which I use in my technique) 40mm is what I am looking for. I also measured and the difference between a 30mm tip/15⁰ head vs 40mm tip/10⁰ head would be

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

So, my main reason for looking is so I can have a lighter lever...to avoid long term issues. Here is what I found:

Kestrel 6oz (top heavy?)

Faulk 8.5oz (top heavy?)

Reyburn rigid ?.?oz

Fujan 10oz (my current)

Reyburn impact 10.5oz (top heavy because impact)

Cassotto impact 12oz (can be weighted more near head)

And, now understanding that a longer tip means easier flagpoling (which I use in my technique) 40mm is what I am looking for. I also measured and the difference between a 30mm tip/15⁰ head vs 40mm tip/10⁰ head would be

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

So, my main reason for looking is so I can have a lighter lever...to avoid long term issues. Here is what I found:

Kestrel 6oz (top heavy?)

Faulk 8.5oz (top heavy?)

Reyburn rigid ?.?oz

Fujan 10oz (my current)

Reyburn impact 10.5oz (top heavy because impact)

Cassotto impact 12oz (can be weighted more near head)

And, now understanding that a longer tip means easier flagpoling (which I use in my technique) 40mm is what I am looking for. I also measured and the difference between a 30mm tip/15⁰ head vs 40mm tip/10⁰ head would be

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

There is a great series of articles on this topic by Dan Levitan in the Journal, but Part 3 (Appearing in Vol. 51 No.12 published 12/08) really explains this concept of "flagpoling" well.

Then of course there is the whole second part of the book "The Craft of Piano Tuning" by Dan Levitan as well which focuses on "The Tuner's Hand"

So, my main reason for looking is so I can have a lighter lever...to avoid long term issues. Here is what I found:

Kestrel 6oz (top heavy?)

Faulk 8.5oz (top heavy?)

Reyburn rigid ?.?oz

Fujan 10oz (my current)

Reyburn impact 10.5oz (top heavy because impact)

Cassotto impact 12oz (can be weighted more near head)

And, now understanding that a longer tip means easier flagpoling (which I use in my technique) 40mm is what I am looking for. I also measured and the difference between a 30mm tip/15⁰ head vs 40mm tip/10⁰ head would be

You make several good points, Paul.

Those blue rubber ball – ends for otherwise straight tuning levers were still available, last I checked, from Erwin's Pianoforte Supply.

I think this is misunderstood.  The extra length of the tuning tip affects how much the tuning hammer flexes the tuning pin, not that the tip itself is flexing any more because it's 10 mm longer.  The longer tip has more leverage against the tuning pin and flexes it more.  If you have a very long tuning tip, which could be necessary on pianos with tall plate struts, you'll have to be more careful when tuning.  If the tip is shorter, it won't flex the tuning pin as much.  Of course you can learn to use it in either case.  The shorter tip is easier to use if the head angle is 15 deg. because with a shallower angle the lever may not clear a nearby strut.  If your tip is long enough, you wouldn't need any head angle at all.  But I don't think they make a 0 deg. head, afaik. 

As far as the tuning lever length, some prefer a longer lever because it's easier to turn tight pins.  Some prefer a shorter lever because the lever is stiffer and gives better feedback when the pin turns. 

I used a regular Hale hammer with a straight handle for many years, but once I discovered how ergonomic the ball-end handles were, I got a Faulk hammer.  I'm not even sure what the head angle is, and I never change it.  Years ago, you could buy a rubber ball that fit on the regular Hale hammer.  My ball disappeared one day, and I regretted it.  
Male or female threaded tips don't matter except that you might someday want to try a different brand tip that wouldn't fit the one you have.

As was mentioned, you'll find your best choice by experience.  I wish I had tried different hammers earlier in my career, but I did learn to adjust to whatever I had in my hand.

It's not the destination, it's the journey.  Just like tools.  Some will get a tool that "everyone uses", and it won't work for them.  I have a box full of these tools that I don't use, or didn't have time to modify to make them work.  Coil lifters come to mind.  They come too wide on the end to fit between the tuning pins.  This journey of becoming a technician is full of various choices, and though you can get advice, in the end you'll find the best way and the best tools that work for you.  It helps if you're a tool junkie like me.  But only buy a tool when you need it, other than the essential regulating tools, and regular hand tools, screwdrivers, etc.  I would not buy a retired technician's toolbox.  You want to be proud of your tools.  Don't buy old junky worn out tools that, like old shoes, you wouldn't want to own.  

Good luck.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

I believe it's all in knowing your tool. I passed RPT exam with 95% stability using Hale extension lever number 3 Hale tip and 20° extra short head.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

Cobrun,

I've done the extra short head, the 15 degree angle, the stiff carbon fiber thing...guess what?

I've gone back to my old Hale extension lever with a 3" tip on it, for grands, and a modified Wonder Wand for uprights. My body and mind are so used to the "flex" inherent in these and I use it to my advantage (I think similar to what you mentioned). 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I believe it's all in knowing your tool. I passed RPT exam with 95% stability using Hale extension lever number 3 Hale tip and 20° extra short head.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

Cobrun,

I've done the extra short head, the 15 degree angle, the stiff carbon fiber thing...guess what?

I've gone back to my old Hale extension lever with a 3" tip on it, for grands, and a modified Wonder Wand for uprights. My body and mind are so used to the "flex" inherent in these and I use it to my advantage (I think similar to what you mentioned). 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

I believe it's all in knowing your tool. I passed RPT exam with 95% stability using Hale extension lever number 3 Hale tip and 20° extra short head.

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks

I'm looking to get a new lever, not anytime soon, but still...

I've seen a lot on tuning tip lengths and tuning lever head angle with people saying "shorter tip is better" or "shorter tip is stiffer" and other readings I see "head angle isn't as important as tip length...therefore bigger head angle and shorter tip is ideal."

So, I thought I'd ask the same questions as we've all probably seen before, but to see if there's any new info:

Does a shorter tip actually noticeably flex less? 30mm Jahn tip vs 40mm Jahn tip...they are both extremely tough metal...(I have used pliers and lots of physical force to try to gouge the surface and saw no marring from the plier teeth). So if the metal is so dang resilient to marring can it really be so flexible to be able to tell a difference between 30mm and 40mm?

If it is a big difference then my best option for a new lever would be a shorter tip (30mm...my current is 40mm) and a larger head angle (15⁰ so as to clear plate struts...my current is 10⁰), correct?

Also, does it matter if the tip is male or female threaded? I currently have Jahn male tips.

Thanks