Pianotech

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

Hi.  Fellow SD Chapter member.  Take a look in the Archives here and look up replacing the loops on Yamaha upright pianos.  There have been many posts on this topic for years.  I use a fine braided fishing line for this job, but you can get the original silk thread from Yamaha or similar from supply houses.

Since you'll be removing the hammers anyway, you can sand the hammers to remove (mostly) the grooves.  Don't remove the grooves completely, but of course if they were misaligned, you might want to.  The "tinny" sound can be voiced with needling, but it will be difficult since the felt is so dense.  In the past, I have tried using acetone to soften hammers.  Steaming is another method, but it's easy to go too far and Yamaha doesn't approve of it.  If you go too far, they're toast.  If you have the budget, you could replace them, if even for the experience.

Improving the appearance, I've had good experience with Howard's Restore-A-Finish.  Get it at Home Depot in the paint section.  Comes in different shades to match the wood color.  Wipe it on with a rag, wipe off the excess, you're done.

Yes, replace whatever felt  is deteriorated.  Look at the damper rods.  They have rubber grommets where they attach to the action.  Likely the rubber is brittle, so replace the grommets to keep the noise down.  LIkely the brass is tarnished or spotty, so use some Brasso, or Flitz or whatever, either with a rag or fine steel wool to shine it up.  The fallboard hardware is probably loose, so there's that.  And all the regulating, leveling keys, replacing the key bushings, etc., are all a good learning experience.  If you want to replace the keytops, it's easy on a Yamaha because the keys are all cut exactly to fit, not much filing needed if you use their keytops.  

Good luck, have fun.

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

Hi,

In my opinion, I would start with replacing the hammer spring cords. I believe what you need is Schaff's #932W. If you don't yet have a Schaff account, contact them to set up one. Search the Journal index for the article by Jeff Hickey. The method differs slightly, depending on whether your pianos hammers are attached by small plates with screws or whether they are screwed in from the front. (The former is easier to deal with.) 

You will need an action cradle. My preference would be to remove all the dampers, then the hammer rest rail. This will make it much easier to file the hammers, which really need it. Personally, I would get rid of the grooves--just don't take off any more felt than necessary. 

The piano probably needs regulation, but you will be unable to regulate it if until those springs are replaced, and filing the hammers will make it sound 100% better.

Buy the PTG's vertical regulation workbook and get to work if you have all the necessary tools and supplies.

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

John-Paul,

I would highly recommend you use Yamaha flanges with cords. They almost all fit without fussing around with alignment. They're not expensive; about $100 for a set when I bought them a few years ago. I tried another brand many years ago and I found I spent a lot of time spacing hammers. That's an arduous task when you find that you must remove the flange/hammers assembly many times to reshape the flange for proper alignment.  

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

John-Paul, while the suggestions above are all excellent, for the purposes of gaining experience I would recommend that you file and shape the hammers while they are in the action and that you get the silk loop string from Schaff, you might try Pacific Piano Supply also, and replace them yourself. One of the basic aspects of action work is that it's X times 88. This piano is a good chance to build up the stamina and rhythm for this type of work and a sense of how everything is 'scaled' (from big to small). This is a really good piano to work out on because you will be rewarded with a fairly nice instrument when you're done. 

There is a metal rail directly behind the dampers with a strip of felt on it, it helps to remove the rail as it allows you to tip the hammers farther forward for different operations.

Howard Piano Industries has a lot of good instructional videos too, here.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 16:17
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul,

I would highly recommend you use Yamaha flanges with cords. They almost all fit without fussing around with alignment. They're not expensive; about $100 for a set when I bought them a few years ago. I tried another brand many years ago and I found I spent a lot of time spacing hammers. That's an arduous task when you find that you must remove the flange/hammers assembly many times to reshape the flange for proper alignment.  

------------------------------
Roger Gable RPT
Gable Piano
Everett WA
(425) 252-5000

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 01:48
From: John-Paul Karas
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440
------------------------------

You do make a good point when it comes to shaping in the hammers while they're in the action. I do think it'll be really beneficial experience to train my stamina and rhythm to get the job done consistently.

I'm about to head to Home Depot to buy some sandpaper sheets of varying roughness for shaping each hammer individually while also using a single file if that's the best way to go for this procedure.

I just recently submitted an application for Schaff to buy some supplies including the ones you mentioned. 

I did test some of the butt flanges and they did have a little bit too much motion in them (Did a swing test and swung 10-15 times) but have little to no side to side movement.  

This piano model does not have a hammer butt plate and the screws to keep the butt flanges secure to glue the loops, which to my understanding probably means I would have to remove each center pin from the flange on all 88 hammer butts to Glue every single Loop (Unless there's a method of doing it without removing the center pins from the flange) 
I'm not sure if reinserting those Center pins would the best idea because of the Excessive motion And would have to result to buying Center pins of different sizes To fit the flanges back in, Leading to a A lot of hassle in buying many different supplies through  Schaff (Or a different piano supply store) while making the repair process much longer, 

Do you think it might be an easier option if I just bought the Yamaha butt flanges with the chords on them to alleviate the extra hassle?

Overall I really do appreciate the help Steven, and all the other techs suggestions above.

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440

Original Message:
Sent: 11-09-2025 00:09
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul, while the suggestions above are all excellent, for the purposes of gaining experience I would recommend that you file and shape the hammers while they are in the action and that you get the silk loop string from Schaff, you might try Pacific Piano Supply also, and replace them yourself. One of the basic aspects of action work is that it's X times 88. This piano is a good chance to build up the stamina and rhythm for this type of work and a sense of how everything is 'scaled' (from big to small). This is a really good piano to work out on because you will be rewarded with a fairly nice instrument when you're done. 

There is a metal rail directly behind the dampers with a strip of felt on it, it helps to remove the rail as it allows you to tip the hammers farther forward for different operations.

Howard Piano Industries has a lot of good instructional videos too, here.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 16:17
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul,

I would highly recommend you use Yamaha flanges with cords. They almost all fit without fussing around with alignment. They're not expensive; about $100 for a set when I bought them a few years ago. I tried another brand many years ago and I found I spent a lot of time spacing hammers. That's an arduous task when you find that you must remove the flange/hammers assembly many times to reshape the flange for proper alignment.  

------------------------------
Roger Gable RPT
Gable Piano
Everett WA
(425) 252-5000

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 01:48
From: John-Paul Karas
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440
------------------------------

John-Paul, if you are an aspiring piano technician you will need those tools and supplies. If this is more of a hobby or project, then maybe just get the replacement flanges. Either way you need to get your hands on a pin extraction/setting tool and replacement center pins. Putting the old pins back in isn't going to work, they will be looser than they already are. Or, it is possible to replace the silk loops with the flanges in place but that won't help with them being to loose already. Looks like you're at a crossroads here.

You do make a good point when it comes to shaping in the hammers while they're in the action. I do think it'll be really beneficial experience to train my stamina and rhythm to get the job done consistently.

I'm about to head to Home Depot to buy some sandpaper sheets of varying roughness for shaping each hammer individually while also using a single file if that's the best way to go for this procedure.

I just recently submitted an application for Schaff to buy some supplies including the ones you mentioned. 

I did test some of the butt flanges and they did have a little bit too much motion in them (Did a swing test and swung 10-15 times) but have little to no side to side movement.  

This piano model does not have a hammer butt plate and the screws to keep the butt flanges secure to glue the loops, which to my understanding probably means I would have to remove each center pin from the flange on all 88 hammer butts to Glue every single Loop (Unless there's a method of doing it without removing the center pins from the flange) 
I'm not sure if reinserting those Center pins would the best idea because of the Excessive motion And would have to result to buying Center pins of different sizes To fit the flanges back in, Leading to a A lot of hassle in buying many different supplies through  Schaff (Or a different piano supply store) while making the repair process much longer, 

Do you think it might be an easier option if I just bought the Yamaha butt flanges with the chords on them to alleviate the extra hassle?

Overall I really do appreciate the help Steven, and all the other techs suggestions above.

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440

Original Message:
Sent: 11-09-2025 00:09
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul, while the suggestions above are all excellent, for the purposes of gaining experience I would recommend that you file and shape the hammers while they are in the action and that you get the silk loop string from Schaff, you might try Pacific Piano Supply also, and replace them yourself. One of the basic aspects of action work is that it's X times 88. This piano is a good chance to build up the stamina and rhythm for this type of work and a sense of how everything is 'scaled' (from big to small). This is a really good piano to work out on because you will be rewarded with a fairly nice instrument when you're done. 

There is a metal rail directly behind the dampers with a strip of felt on it, it helps to remove the rail as it allows you to tip the hammers farther forward for different operations.

Howard Piano Industries has a lot of good instructional videos too, here.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 16:17
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul,

I would highly recommend you use Yamaha flanges with cords. They almost all fit without fussing around with alignment. They're not expensive; about $100 for a set when I bought them a few years ago. I tried another brand many years ago and I found I spent a lot of time spacing hammers. That's an arduous task when you find that you must remove the flange/hammers assembly many times to reshape the flange for proper alignment.  

------------------------------
Roger Gable RPT
Gable Piano
Everett WA
(425) 252-5000

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 01:48
From: John-Paul Karas
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440
------------------------------

You do make a good point when it comes to shaping in the hammers while they're in the action. I do think it'll be really beneficial experience to train my stamina and rhythm to get the job done consistently.

I'm about to head to Home Depot to buy some sandpaper sheets of varying roughness for shaping each hammer individually while also using a single file if that's the best way to go for this procedure.

I just recently submitted an application for Schaff to buy some supplies including the ones you mentioned. 

I did test some of the butt flanges and they did have a little bit too much motion in them (Did a swing test and swung 10-15 times) but have little to no side to side movement.  

This piano model does not have a hammer butt plate and the screws to keep the butt flanges secure to glue the loops, which to my understanding probably means I would have to remove each center pin from the flange on all 88 hammer butts to Glue every single Loop (Unless there's a method of doing it without removing the center pins from the flange) 
I'm not sure if reinserting those Center pins would the best idea because of the Excessive motion And would have to result to buying Center pins of different sizes To fit the flanges back in, Leading to a A lot of hassle in buying many different supplies through  Schaff (Or a different piano supply store) while making the repair process much longer, 

Do you think it might be an easier option if I just bought the Yamaha butt flanges with the chords on them to alleviate the extra hassle?

Overall I really do appreciate the help Steven, and all the other techs suggestions above.

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-09-2025 00:09
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul, while the suggestions above are all excellent, for the purposes of gaining experience I would recommend that you file and shape the hammers while they are in the action and that you get the silk loop string from Schaff, you might try Pacific Piano Supply also, and replace them yourself. One of the basic aspects of action work is that it's X times 88. This piano is a good chance to build up the stamina and rhythm for this type of work and a sense of how everything is 'scaled' (from big to small). This is a really good piano to work out on because you will be rewarded with a fairly nice instrument when you're done. 

There is a metal rail directly behind the dampers with a strip of felt on it, it helps to remove the rail as it allows you to tip the hammers farther forward for different operations.

Howard Piano Industries has a lot of good instructional videos too, here.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 16:17
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul,

I would highly recommend you use Yamaha flanges with cords. They almost all fit without fussing around with alignment. They're not expensive; about $100 for a set when I bought them a few years ago. I tried another brand many years ago and I found I spent a lot of time spacing hammers. That's an arduous task when you find that you must remove the flange/hammers assembly many times to reshape the flange for proper alignment.  

------------------------------
Roger Gable RPT
Gable Piano
Everett WA
(425) 252-5000

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 01:48
From: John-Paul Karas
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440
------------------------------

You do make a good point when it comes to shaping in the hammers while they're in the action. I do think it'll be really beneficial experience to train my stamina and rhythm to get the job done consistently.

I'm about to head to Home Depot to buy some sandpaper sheets of varying roughness for shaping each hammer individually while also using a single file if that's the best way to go for this procedure.

I just recently submitted an application for Schaff to buy some supplies including the ones you mentioned. 

I did test some of the butt flanges and they did have a little bit too much motion in them (Did a swing test and swung 10-15 times) but have little to no side to side movement.  

This piano model does not have a hammer butt plate and the screws to keep the butt flanges secure to glue the loops, which to my understanding probably means I would have to remove each center pin from the flange on all 88 hammer butts to Glue every single Loop (Unless there's a method of doing it without removing the center pins from the flange) 
I'm not sure if reinserting those Center pins would the best idea because of the Excessive motion And would have to result to buying Center pins of different sizes To fit the flanges back in, Leading to a A lot of hassle in buying many different supplies through  Schaff (Or a different piano supply store) while making the repair process much longer, 

Do you think it might be an easier option if I just bought the Yamaha butt flanges with the chords on them to alleviate the extra hassle?

Overall I really do appreciate the help Steven, and all the other techs suggestions above.

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440

Original Message:
Sent: 11-09-2025 00:09
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul, while the suggestions above are all excellent, for the purposes of gaining experience I would recommend that you file and shape the hammers while they are in the action and that you get the silk loop string from Schaff, you might try Pacific Piano Supply also, and replace them yourself. One of the basic aspects of action work is that it's X times 88. This piano is a good chance to build up the stamina and rhythm for this type of work and a sense of how everything is 'scaled' (from big to small). This is a really good piano to work out on because you will be rewarded with a fairly nice instrument when you're done. 

There is a metal rail directly behind the dampers with a strip of felt on it, it helps to remove the rail as it allows you to tip the hammers farther forward for different operations.

Howard Piano Industries has a lot of good instructional videos too, here.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 16:17
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul,

I would highly recommend you use Yamaha flanges with cords. They almost all fit without fussing around with alignment. They're not expensive; about $100 for a set when I bought them a few years ago. I tried another brand many years ago and I found I spent a lot of time spacing hammers. That's an arduous task when you find that you must remove the flange/hammers assembly many times to reshape the flange for proper alignment.  

------------------------------
Roger Gable RPT
Gable Piano
Everett WA
(425) 252-5000

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 01:48
From: John-Paul Karas
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440
------------------------------

Read! Butts have no plate.

You do make a good point when it comes to shaping in the hammers while they're in the action. I do think it'll be really beneficial experience to train my stamina and rhythm to get the job done consistently.

I'm about to head to Home Depot to buy some sandpaper sheets of varying roughness for shaping each hammer individually while also using a single file if that's the best way to go for this procedure.

I just recently submitted an application for Schaff to buy some supplies including the ones you mentioned. 

I did test some of the butt flanges and they did have a little bit too much motion in them (Did a swing test and swung 10-15 times) but have little to no side to side movement.  

This piano model does not have a hammer butt plate and the screws to keep the butt flanges secure to glue the loops, which to my understanding probably means I would have to remove each center pin from the flange on all 88 hammer butts to Glue every single Loop (Unless there's a method of doing it without removing the center pins from the flange) 
I'm not sure if reinserting those Center pins would the best idea because of the Excessive motion And would have to result to buying Center pins of different sizes To fit the flanges back in, Leading to a A lot of hassle in buying many different supplies through  Schaff (Or a different piano supply store) while making the repair process much longer, 

Do you think it might be an easier option if I just bought the Yamaha butt flanges with the chords on them to alleviate the extra hassle?

Overall I really do appreciate the help Steven, and all the other techs suggestions above.

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440

Original Message:
Sent: 11-09-2025 00:09
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul, while the suggestions above are all excellent, for the purposes of gaining experience I would recommend that you file and shape the hammers while they are in the action and that you get the silk loop string from Schaff, you might try Pacific Piano Supply also, and replace them yourself. One of the basic aspects of action work is that it's X times 88. This piano is a good chance to build up the stamina and rhythm for this type of work and a sense of how everything is 'scaled' (from big to small). This is a really good piano to work out on because you will be rewarded with a fairly nice instrument when you're done. 

There is a metal rail directly behind the dampers with a strip of felt on it, it helps to remove the rail as it allows you to tip the hammers farther forward for different operations.

Howard Piano Industries has a lot of good instructional videos too, here.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 16:17
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul,

I would highly recommend you use Yamaha flanges with cords. They almost all fit without fussing around with alignment. They're not expensive; about $100 for a set when I bought them a few years ago. I tried another brand many years ago and I found I spent a lot of time spacing hammers. That's an arduous task when you find that you must remove the flange/hammers assembly many times to reshape the flange for proper alignment.  

------------------------------
Roger Gable RPT
Gable Piano
Everett WA
(425) 252-5000

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 01:48
From: John-Paul Karas
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440
------------------------------

John-Paul, while the suggestions above are all excellent, for the purposes of gaining experience I would recommend that you file and shape the hammers while they are in the action and that you get the silk loop string from Schaff, you might try Pacific Piano Supply also, and replace them yourself. One of the basic aspects of action work is that it's X times 88. This piano is a good chance to build up the stamina and rhythm for this type of work and a sense of how everything is 'scaled' (from big to small). This is a really good piano to work out on because you will be rewarded with a fairly nice instrument when you're done. 

There is a metal rail directly behind the dampers with a strip of felt on it, it helps to remove the rail as it allows you to tip the hammers farther forward for different operations.

Howard Piano Industries has a lot of good instructional videos too, here.

John-Paul,

I would highly recommend you use Yamaha flanges with cords. They almost all fit without fussing around with alignment. They're not expensive; about $100 for a set when I bought them a few years ago. I tried another brand many years ago and I found I spent a lot of time spacing hammers. That's an arduous task when you find that you must remove the flange/hammers assembly many times to reshape the flange for proper alignment.  

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

Since the silk cords  deteriorate over time  I don't understand the reasoning behind replacing the cords with more silk that will only deteriorate again.  Nylon, Dacron or even cotton will last at least 100 years and  might be a  much better replacement.  Braided fishing cast line is readily available and would  be a  good choice also.

Since the flanges have seen a  lot of use and wear replacing the flange and cords is straight forward and simple.

------------------------------
Blaine Hebert RPT
Duarte CA
(626) 390-0512

Original Message:
Sent: 11-09-2025 00:09
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul, while the suggestions above are all excellent, for the purposes of gaining experience I would recommend that you file and shape the hammers while they are in the action and that you get the silk loop string from Schaff, you might try Pacific Piano Supply also, and replace them yourself. One of the basic aspects of action work is that it's X times 88. This piano is a good chance to build up the stamina and rhythm for this type of work and a sense of how everything is 'scaled' (from big to small). This is a really good piano to work out on because you will be rewarded with a fairly nice instrument when you're done. 

There is a metal rail directly behind the dampers with a strip of felt on it, it helps to remove the rail as it allows you to tip the hammers farther forward for different operations.

Howard Piano Industries has a lot of good instructional videos too, here.

------------------------------
Steven Rosenthal RPT
Honolulu HI
(808) 521-7129

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 16:17
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

John-Paul,

I would highly recommend you use Yamaha flanges with cords. They almost all fit without fussing around with alignment. They're not expensive; about $100 for a set when I bought them a few years ago. I tried another brand many years ago and I found I spent a lot of time spacing hammers. That's an arduous task when you find that you must remove the flange/hammers assembly many times to reshape the flange for proper alignment.  

------------------------------
Roger Gable RPT
Gable Piano
Everett WA
(425) 252-5000

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 01:48
From: John-Paul Karas
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440
------------------------------

Since the silk cords  deteriorate over time  I don't understand the reasoning behind replacing the cords with more silk that will only deteriorate again.  Nylon, Dacron or even cotton will last at least 100 years and  might be a  much better replacement.  Braided fishing cast line is readily available and would  be a  good choice also.

Since the flanges have seen a  lot of use and wear replacing the flange and cords is straight forward and simple.

John-Paul, while the suggestions above are all excellent, for the purposes of gaining experience I would recommend that you file and shape the hammers while they are in the action and that you get the silk loop string from Schaff, you might try Pacific Piano Supply also, and replace them yourself. One of the basic aspects of action work is that it's X times 88. This piano is a good chance to build up the stamina and rhythm for this type of work and a sense of how everything is 'scaled' (from big to small). This is a really good piano to work out on because you will be rewarded with a fairly nice instrument when you're done. 

There is a metal rail directly behind the dampers with a strip of felt on it, it helps to remove the rail as it allows you to tip the hammers farther forward for different operations.

Howard Piano Industries has a lot of good instructional videos too, here.

John-Paul,

I would highly recommend you use Yamaha flanges with cords. They almost all fit without fussing around with alignment. They're not expensive; about $100 for a set when I bought them a few years ago. I tried another brand many years ago and I found I spent a lot of time spacing hammers. That's an arduous task when you find that you must remove the flange/hammers assembly many times to reshape the flange for proper alignment.  

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

I can't add much more than the already good advice others have  given.  Personally I would order a set of Yamaha flanges with cords and install them one at a time with the action in place, but  if you have an action cradle this job is  easier on a bench.  Shaping the hammers on an upright is harder than on a grand.  You can shape each hammer when you pull it out to replace the flange (or just the cord if you want to go that route) but you might have trouble getting consistency  between each hammer.  You could  also try gang filing the hammers  in place  with a strip of  coarse cloth-backed sanding material.  In the tenor and bass you can use a narrow strip (the cloth  material will tear easily into strips) to file the angled hammers.

I make my own hammer filing sticks  from belt sanding material; any sanding belt is OK, I have used 60 to 120 grit, each grit has its advantages.  I glue mine onto  9  inch segments from a wood yard stick.  Some sanding belts have plasticized backs that are hard to get glue to stick well but contact cement usually works if other glues don't.  In a pinch any coarse sandpaper will work, but regular sandpaper wears out too fast.

Have fun, but this looks to be a fairly simple and straight forward job, so don't get too  far from specifications or make any  drastic changes.

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

I can't add much more than the already good advice others have  given.  Personally I would order a set of Yamaha flanges with cords and install them one at a time with the action in place, but  if you have an action cradle this job is  easier on a bench.  Shaping the hammers on an upright is harder than on a grand.  You can shape each hammer when you pull it out to replace the flange (or just the cord if you want to go that route) but you might have trouble getting consistency  between each hammer.  You could  also try gang filing the hammers  in place  with a strip of  coarse cloth-backed sanding material.  In the tenor and bass you can use a narrow strip (the cloth  material will tear easily into strips) to file the angled hammers.

I make my own hammer filing sticks  from belt sanding material; any sanding belt is OK, I have used 60 to 120 grit, each grit has its advantages.  I glue mine onto  9  inch segments from a wood yard stick.  Some sanding belts have plasticized backs that are hard to get glue to stick well but contact cement usually works if other glues don't.  In a pinch any coarse sandpaper will work, but regular sandpaper wears out too fast.

Have fun, but this looks to be a fairly simple and straight forward job, so don't get too  far from specifications or make any  drastic changes.

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

Paul-

Please Wait a Moment! I disagree with the advice you're being given because it seems to me you have not learned the very basic skills upon which the string cord repair is compounded.

Do you know how to replace a flange bushing and how to fit a center pin in a loose  or tight bushing to get proper resistance? You don't have the basic tools and supplies, so I don't think so. Get the tools and supplies and get your colleagues to give you a hundred or so various discarded hammer assemblies, take them apart and rebush them. See the PACE lessons and the Playground videos. (Get a set of Mannino broaches!)

Have you ever filed a set of hammers? The basic skill is filing the hammers while they are installed in the action, because you want to shape them evenly. It's the way you will do them in the customer's home, not removing and filing them one at a time.Your hammers can be reshaped, but not too much. You need to work carefully so you don't take off too much felt. See the PACE lessons. Make some good sandpaper files and you'll be glad to have them many times. 

Check the key bushings and replace them if necessary. Begin buying the tools and supplies for this, which can be a regular service you can offer.

Align and fit the hammers to the strings and proceed with regulation. Understanding action function and regulation will be you most important diagnostic and service skill. It's where everything starts and ends, and it can always be improved. See the PACE lessons, Doug Neal's video in the Academy and the videos in the Education site.

When you've learned these basic skills, you're ready to look at the flange cords. Chances are the piano will play rather well without them, but it will play better when you replace them...and you'll probably have to touch up the regulation a little bit.

The reason I made the PTG Playground many years ago was because I saw so many technicians trying to do complex repairs without mastering the very basic skills. You cannot do quality work based on sloppy basics. Work on your basics, which will help you pass the RPT Technical Exam, and then complex jobs will come easily.

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

Paul-

Please Wait a Moment! I disagree with the advice you're being given because it seems to me you have not learned the very basic skills upon which the string cord repair is compounded.

Do you know how to replace a flange bushing and how to fit a center pin in a loose  or tight bushing to get proper resistance? You don't have the basic tools and supplies, so I don't think so. Get the tools and supplies and get your colleagues to give you a hundred or so various discarded hammer assemblies, take them apart and rebush them. See the PACE lessons and the Playground videos. (Get a set of Mannino broaches!)

Have you ever filed a set of hammers? The basic skill is filing the hammers while they are installed in the action, because you want to shape them evenly. It's the way you will do them in the customer's home, not removing and filing them one at a time.Your hammers can be reshaped, but not too much. You need to work carefully so you don't take off too much felt. See the PACE lessons. Make some good sandpaper files and you'll be glad to have them many times. 

Check the key bushings and replace them if necessary. Begin buying the tools and supplies for this, which can be a regular service you can offer.

Align and fit the hammers to the strings and proceed with regulation. Understanding action function and regulation will be you most important diagnostic and service skill. It's where everything starts and ends, and it can always be improved. See the PACE lessons, Doug Neal's video in the Academy and the videos in the Education site.

When you've learned these basic skills, you're ready to look at the flange cords. Chances are the piano will play rather well without them, but it will play better when you replace them...and you'll probably have to touch up the regulation a little bit.

The reason I made the PTG Playground many years ago was because I saw so many technicians trying to do complex repairs without mastering the very basic skills. You cannot do quality work based on sloppy basics. Work on your basics, which will help you pass the RPT Technical Exam, and then complex jobs will come easily.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 11-08-2025 01:48
From: John-Paul Karas
Subject: Tuning Repairing, and voicing a Yamaha P22 from 1984

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!  

------------------------------
John-Paul Karas
Murrieta CA
(951) 240-1440
------------------------------

Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post of beginning my Journey!

I have recently purchased a Satin Walnut Yamaha p22 from 1984 for $400 ($900 after getting it moved to my house) to use as a learning instrument for tuning, regulation, voicing, and repair while having Daniel (or Dan) Reed helping me out little bit (Mostly on the phone) since I do live pretty close to him. 

So far the problems I've found on the piano (other than it being 30 cents out of tune) is the spring cords on all keys which I plan on replacing in the future, just need to find and buy the right materials and supplies for the job, though I'm not sure where or who to buy them from and what material is best for replacing spring cords of this model.

The hammers do have some grooves (roughly 1-1.5 millimeters deep) and some of them weren't spaced properly when the 1st owners of this piano played for several years (the grooves on some of the hammers formed with improper spacing), a few of them that sound harsh/tinny, and to some that play Mezzo forte when trying to play Forte/Fortissimo. 

There were some mouse droppings in the piano , but thankfully not much damage was done by the mice (Except a bit of missing felt at the tenor strings in the treble bridge)

There is a little bit of minor cosmetic wear (Scratches and tiny chips) on the piano and some surface level rust in some places inside and outside the piano (Which will also be shown in pictures).

The piano did tune nicely, no strings snapped while raising the pitch and had no problem overpulling the strings to let the string tension settle.

 Some new felt definitely needs to be put in for the pedals since the original felt deteriorated.

I'd like to hear thoughts on how I could make this piano better both functionally and aesthetically (But more importantly on function and sound). 

This is my first time doing something Like this so I'd rather approach with caution, looking for resources, and ask for help instead of diving into something I'm not familiar with yet.

Overall, I'm pretty happy I bought this piano with the help of Dan Reed and Brian Janey (From San Diego Chapter). 

I also do have images in pdf form.

If I made any mistakes with what I said in the post, criticism would be appreciated!