Pianotech

Expand all | Collapse all

Unhappy customer

  • 1.  Unhappy customer

    Posted 01-19-2023 09:14
    I've been tuning for 4 years now tuning about 8-10 a week and this is the first time the following has happened to me: When  I texted to schedule her yearly tuning, I was told she already had it tuned. When I asked if she was unhappy with her tuning, she said it was a good tuning but a little sharper than she wanted it. So instead of telling me and having me fix it, she got someone else.  I realize you can't please all people all the time, but it still hurts. 

    Any advice?

    Thank you all in advance for your input!!


  • 2.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-19-2023 09:24
    Mary.

    I’m a concert level tuner and I’ve been doing this for 46 years, and I get similar answers. My advice is to let it go and move on. As you said, you can’t please everyone.

    Wim

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 3.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Posted 01-19-2023 09:34
    hello Mary,
    it happens and there's nothing you can do about it. Just let it go and move on. 
    When i first started, i had similar things happen: one customer didn't like me using my etd, even though i use my ears and machine. She used someone who tuned strictly by ear but then after a few years, she came back to me and had me tune her piano ever since. 
    On another occasion, one of my customers mentioned that the top two octaves were flat: i checked and it was spot on but tuned it sharp and had her check it: even flatter according to her. I told her in a sort of diplomatic way that maybe her hearing was giving her problems as happens with most people (she was in her late 80's). She used someone else but after 2 years contacted me for tuning her pianos and mentioned that it was her hearing. She thanked me for mentioning it and suggesting she'd see a doctor. The only reason i mentioned something about her hearing is that i had been tuning her pianos (3 in total) once yearly for many years and knew her from church. We had a good relationship.
    Otherwise: just let it go and don't say anything other than maybe you will be around just in case. You can't please everyone.
    Peter
    Janssen Piano Services
    6784168055

    ------------------------------
    Peter Janssen
    Fort Myers FL
    (678) 416-8055
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Posted 01-19-2023 11:55
    I've had worse

    I tune for a well known pianist-songwriter who's quite as eccentric as I am but has a penchant for Kirnberger III tuning on his Steinway C rather than a more "civilised" unequal temperament which is the norm for me. His son is a jazz performer. At a party at the Dad's house everyone admired the Steinway and the son asked me to tune his four string Bluthner. He usually works in his garden shed with an electronic and the living room piano was intended to inspire his children. Unequal temperament in home keys sounds so wonderful that children are inspired to play more. I did the instrument and he played it https://youtu.be/Ptaxfn-Hczw?t=353 and found it wonderful.

    A couple of months ago I had an email asking me to tune again. So there I went, and tuned it, as well as ever I could, indeed taking the trouble to tune the aliquots perfectly. He sat down, played in Db and got stuck.

    "A leering key, degenerating into grief and rapture. It cannot laugh, but it can smile; it cannot howl, but it can at least grimace its crying.--Consequently only unusual characters and feelings can be brought out in this key."
    and there he remains.

    Didn't pay me. He can go get someone else to tune his four string Bluthner. And if he comes back to me, it's "no". And I'm not tuning equal temperament for anybody - other than one pianist with two instruments needing one to ET standard.

    Best wishes

    David P





  • 5.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-19-2023 12:27

    I have no use for snobs.






  • 6.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-19-2023 13:23
    A little sharper than she wanted probably has nothing to do with pitch but with the tone.

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-20-2023 15:58
    How do you know that (what the customer meant)?

    I had a faculty member once that was a composer that told me heard everything at A435.  To him everything was out of tune! 

    I was speaking with another tech the other day and she said her customer was unable to decipher the top 5 notes or so.  How can you be right when the customer has lost some hearing or is used to something a different way?

    At least you were told the temperament that they wanted.  But if it's not equal temperament shouldn't they also tell you what key they want the commas around or what key they will play in?

    Customer is always right even if they are wrong.  They could be reading music and be playing the wrong note written on the page!
     Jessica





  • 8.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Posted 01-22-2023 11:45
    "A leering key, degenerating into grief and rapture. It cannot laugh, but it can smile; it cannot howl, but it can at least grimace its crying.--Consequently only unusual characters and feelings can be brought out in this key."

    This sounds like something Shakespearean

    I tuned for a similar type of person.  He had went through all the tuners in town and he decided to give me a try.  There was one particular note that no one could tune to his liking.  I did my best with it and got fairly close in his opinion, but still not there.  He said "Alas.  I am afflicted with the most perfect of pitch and that note is still painful to me".  Its not like this was a Steinway or other really nice piano.. it was a fairly older Yamaha. He said "you are not the one tuner I have been searching for".  I was a little put off, but then realized I can't please everybody.  


    ------------------------------
    Patrick Greene
    OWNER
    Knoxville TN
    (865) 384-6582
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-22-2023 14:38
    Patrick,
    This sounds very much like this person had a psychological tick, and that one note really triggers it. We must be careful to not get trapped into their web, these types can be very compelling, and might even throw off our own judgement by listening to their arguments.

    You get to walk away from it, not nearly so easy for them.


    Joe Wiencek
    NYC




  • 10.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-22-2023 17:03
    People certainly come in all shapes, sizes, and temperaments...

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Posted 01-22-2023 17:53
    There's another way of looking at things. 

    We all have only one life to lead. My golden rule is only to work for people who _appreciate_ what I do. Working for others is a waste of life. If your tuning is to the best of your ability and you know it's good then if someone doesn't have the discernment to recognise that, it's their loss not mine. 

    Just because some idiot or retrograde doesn't appreciate what you do isn't cause to go into Db yourself even if your client is, or worse, Bb minor, preparation for suicide lies in that key. (Chopin 2nd sonata 3rd movement)

    Those key descriptions sound "imaginative" but when one tunes in a strong temperament veering towards if not 1/4 comma meantone, you can experience the documented "affects" in a visceral way. For those wanting to be adventurous do tune an instrument to 1/4 comma meantone and play the Mozart Sonatas. It's a revelation. 

    Best wishes

    David P

    --
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    +44 1342 850594





  • 12.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-19-2023 16:48
    The reason doesn't make sense to me. The client probably found someone cheaper. Move on.

    ------------------------------
    -Phil Bondi
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-20-2023 01:21
    It happens.
    I say (sweetly) "Good luck and please keep my number."
    If you are so dependent on one customer you need to advertise more!

    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert RPT
    Duarte CA
    (626) 795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-20-2023 01:56
    This is a good example of another aspect of our profession. We have to study and learn from different personalities, preferences and psychologies (including our own.) I think it’s a good opportunity to take what you can from it, and like others suggest, to move on from there.

    There are lots of pianos out there needing service.

    Joe Wiencek
    NYC




  • 15.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-20-2023 08:40
    Mary,

    I agree that it sounds like a made up excuse ("a good tuning but sharper...") as it makes no sense. She wanted SOME reason to switch (less money is the primary reason...or a "friend"). 

    I'll never forget the first time I encountered someone who liked "wobbly" unisons (and I do mean WOBBLY). The harder I tried to "fix" it the worse it got in his ears. By the time I figured out what was going on it was too late. Oh well...

    I agree though that it is difficult to deal with rejection in this profession. One eventually learns to live with the small % of "unhappy" people who cannot be made happy under any circumstances. (But it is gratifying when a few come back later after they find out that the grass ain't greener on the other side). 

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-20-2023 13:09

    Some people are only looking for an excuse to complain about anything.  I'm getting good at it after 33 years. If they rag on me, I wonder how happy their world is.  I smile, ask them if I can recommend another tech, or just thank them and leave.






  • 17.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-20-2023 09:07
    Hi Mary,

    Did you tune the piano to A440?  Was the piano very flat?  It's best to explain to the client where the pitch is before you tune and that you will be tuning it to A440 pitch.  You can explain that the piano was designed to be tuned to A440 pitch. It could be that the piano was so flat before that the correct pitch was too different for her. I over-explain things to my client, so they know what I am doing and why.  You can always call her back and tell her you are new and would like to understand the issue so you don't make the same mistake.  We learn from our mistakes and if we don't make any ..well...

    Best of luck and keep at it.

    ------------------------------
    Gina Bonfietti, RPT
    NERVP
    CT
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-21-2023 22:42
    Hi Mary,

    The clients who choose another technician after me are some of my best teachers.

    And the ones who complain directly to me are REALLY good teachers.

    The clients who complain about something that doesn’t make sense - for example, "the upper notes continue to sustain and don’t dampen" - I re-think what I might have done to cause them to lose confidence in me. Was I in some way unappealing or unprofessional? I tweak my presentation or professionalism. And I utilize the teaching moment with a spirit of helpfulness with (hopefully) no hard feelings.

    Although it can feel bad, with the right frame of mind, it will continue to refine your skills and presentation. The tough clients are our teachers.

    The technician who is unaffected by complaints don’t usually improve very much over the years.

    So you are on the right track :-)

    Ashley




  • 19.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-22-2023 09:16
    Thank you Ashley and Jessica. That is what I wanted to say and you said it better than I could have.

    Best regards to everyone trying to improve and make sense of it all.

    Allan Sutton, m.mus. RPT
    www.pianotechniquemontreal.com







  • 20.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Member
    Posted 01-22-2023 11:17
    Some great observations and advice. Rejection is a part of being in any business but you have to go with the flow. I may have said I am sorry there was a problem and wished you had called me . This may have been a case of price shopping or the client not adjusting to her now in tune piano. I had a Steinway grand owner who's pedal lyre was swinging in the breeze - really the screw holes where so enlarged the movers did not make any attempt to tighten things. I ended up installing threaded insert and bolts, recommended a full dampp chaser system because of our humidity and a gas log fireplace near the piano, did 2 pitch raises and a fine tuning. He complained around town that I "ruined his piano"  . Duh he had been playing an out of tune piano for so long he thought that was normal. I later found out he hired someone else and bought the dampp chaser from them . A lady in an upscale and I mean upscale community insisted that I was supposed to fix all of the problems in the thump box she bought at a second hand shop in Charleston SC all for the price of the tuning I did. Her son called me back for some issues like damper leaks slow keys and cut me an extra check for my time. I handed him a brochure I have that explains tuning, pitch raises/lowerings , regulation and what each service includes/excludes. She was not there but a week later called me and went into a tirade. Who knows how much bad mouth I got from her but I have plenty of great clients who see the value of my work.

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-22-2023 11:28
    In general, most customers are happy and appreciate the work we do. But some have unrealistic expectation of what we do and how it costs. They think they know what’s wrong with their piano and get a mind set as to how much they think it should cost to fix it. When we don’t meet those expectations, they take the attitude that we’re wrong. You can’t win with those people, so it’s best to move on. It’s what I call, part of the job description of being a self employed piano tuner.

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 22.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Posted 01-20-2023 10:16
    Yes Mary, it does hurt. What we do is kinda personal and it's hard not to take it personally. I don't know you, but I'm sure you did a fine tuning and the reason this customer hired someone else to tune their piano really had nothing to do with your tuning. The hard thing to deal with is not knowing the real reason. You probably never will. So, as others have suggested, try to let it go and do a fabulous tuning on the next piano! We're all rooting for you!

    P.S.
    If you're tuning 8-10 pianos a week at this point in your career, I'd say you're doing a lot of things right! 👍
    ------------------------------
    "That Tuning Guy"
    Scott Kerns
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    www.thattuningguy.com
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-22-2023 18:35
    Recently, I had a client with a Mason Hamlin mid size grand.  There had been a flood in the room, and though the piano never touched the water, the wood floor was replaced, and some paintings and other items were damaged.  I had last tuned this piano years ago, and somehow they called me again.  I pitch raised and tuned the piano, and the elderly client sat down and immediately said he didn't like the tuning.  He pointed out a couple notes in the upper treble, and said they were no good, flat.  The lady then quizzed me with my ETD, asking what was the "range".  Range?  I was getting defensive.  Using PianoMeter, the display is difficult to explain because the readout is jumpy, and I could tell she was skeptical.  After trying to explain what I was doing (bad idea), I finally said, "Ok, I"ll retune the piano".  Which took me an extra 45 minutes, to be sure every note was as perfect as this human can do.  Somehow, the atmosphere changed.  I explained to her that I just want you to be happy with my work.  And I really meant it.  I almost walked, but they had already given me a check, so I had to follow through.  We left on good terms..  What I was able to discern is, the old man was unhappy about the flood situation, and the poor service of the insurance company and remedial service that they received.  I"m sure my tuning was good, it was just (in my opinion) that he was taking out his dissatisfaction on me.  Whether that's true, or even if he was still unhappy with the tuning, I"ll never know.  He was a very accomplished pianist, so I don't know if his ear was tweaked from old age or what.  I sure didn't want a poor opinion to get spread around about me, coming from someone with a good reputation.  You never know who he might tell.  At least, I got my chance to make it better on the spot, rather than them calling somebody else.  This doesn't happen often, but there it is.

    ------------------------------
    Paul McCloud, RPT
    Accutone Piano Service
    www.AccutonePianoService.com
    pavadasa@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-22-2023 19:00
    I had a customer way back in my early career that had a problem with the tuning I had provided. He sat down to play when I was done and said that he couldn't understand why all the tuners he brings in always leave this one mid treble note flat. The tuning wasn't all that bad when I arrived, but I was like the third or fourth tuner he had recently brought in. Ok, I tweaked it up a bit and he still said it was flat. I brought it up a bit more, to a point where it was obviously way too sharp and he still said it was flat. As a last resort I decided to give him what he wanted, regardless. I had him sit at the piano and play as I pulled the note sharper and sharper. I got to the point where I was over 100¢ sharp and he was still not satisfied. For fear of breaking the string I declined to pull it any more sharp, in fact I brought it back down to pitch. He was not happy. In the nicest way I could muster, I suggested he get his hearing checked and explained how a couple of bad cilia in the ear can play havoc with tone and pitch interpretation. He wanted none of it. He called his son in to get a third opinion and his son agreed that the tuning was fine, as were the last three. The man wouldn't pay me but his son thanked me for my patience and extra effort to try and make his father happy and wrote me a check. 

    Local tech, Ed Whitting, has a great saying for his customers when finished and it's time to leave: If you like what I did, tell your friends. If you don't like what I did, tell me.

    ------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2023 09:26

    I have a story. My final appointment of last year was Friday afternoon, December 23. I was called to the home of an old man who had a spinet that he had neglected for many decades. I found the date of the last tuning written in pencil as 1967. I asked him if this sounded about right, and he laughed and said yes. It was well over 300¢ flat. 

    I told him because it had been neglected for five decades, and was so far flat, it would need multiple visits to get it up to pitch. He agreed, so I started pitch raising. Two strings broke initially, and he insisted I splice them. I figured, it's almost Christmas and he's old, so I'll do this at no extra charge. I finished splicing the strings and bringing it up as much as I dared, then told him I was done. 

    He came over to check the piano, and became livid. "You called out and in tune piano?" "No," I said, "that's all I can do today because of the intense raise in tension on the strings. After all, it hasn't been tuned for five decades." 

    He proceeded to tell me not only how to properly tune a piano (because he had watched his previous piano tuner… fifty years ago…), but also that I was the worst piano tuner he had ever hired (in over half a century). He then insisted I keep at it or he wouldn't pay me. Against my better judgment, I started tuning again. Not even five notes in - BANG! Another string goes flying. This point I was so mad at him that I packed everything up, closed up the piano and went into the other room to find him.

    I told him that against my better judgement I did what he wanted, and yet another string broke. I was done. The piano can't take any more. He proceeded to yell at me and call me all sorts of names, and said he would have been better off if I hadn't come at all. I wanted to say a lot more, but I bit my tongue and simply said, "when you neglect something for half a century, don't get mad at others because the thing doesn't work anymore." Then I turned and walked out the door. 

    He had the audacity to wish me a merry Christmas… while he was still yelling at me on my way out. No, I didn't get paid. 



    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-24-2023 01:08
    Benjamin,
    You have made me grateful for my wonderful clientelle!

    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert RPT
    Duarte CA
    (626) 795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Member
    Posted 01-22-2023 21:55
    Paul... it is highly likely the gentleman has a hearing loss. Like it or not many people develop hearing loss as they age starting in the high frequency range. Unfortunately hearing checks are not done frequently enough. I found out recently that I have high frequency hearing loss and after additional testing will be getting hearing aids on Tuesday. I found out that there are over 300 otc and prescription medicines that can cause hearing issues. I have always worn hearing protection working with power equipment, lawn equipment at the range or around loud music. I am going to have the hearing specialist come with me to calibrate /adjust the hearing aids as I tune a Yamaha C7 so that they do not cause issues. I will say that I have always had issues tuning an Otto Altenburg grand that actually caused ear pain when ever  tuned it. Rock hard hammers I am sure here at the heart of it

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2023 10:42
    Bear in mind folks that some hearing aid Algorithms will actually transpose a note as much as 1/2 step flat. I think it is rare but have run into situations like this. Google it.. In one situation the note was somewhere around A5. I always tell people it is better to play without hearing aids.

    ------------------------------
    Tremaine Parsons RPT
    Georgetown CA
    (530) 333-9299
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2023 12:48
    I want to second what Larry M said. Sometimes customers confuse tuning and voicing and miscommunication ensues. Flat can mean dull (or not working at all). Sharp can mean too bright.

    ------------------------------
    John Pope
    University of Kentucky School of Music
    Lexington, KY
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2023 15:03
    Becoming not so young myself, I hesitate to offer this: Not to admit older folks as clients.

    They want to pay cash and they don't use email nor text messages....Flags...I've had bad experiences.

    Now I feel awful. Sorry. 

    Allan Sutton, m.mus. RPT
    www.pianotechniquemontreal.com





  • 31.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2023 16:09
    Yes,  you should feel awful that's discriminatory and maybe even against yourself.  Truly, I hope that you are joking!  There is nothing wrong with cash!  Unless you are afraid of germs,  like there are no germs on piano keys!
    Jessica Massr
    --
    Sent from Gmail Mobile





  • 32.  RE: Unhappy customer

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-23-2023 19:12

    Here in the U.S., it's not a federal requirement for businesses to accept cash as a form of payment, but some states require it. Check your state laws before saying you won't. 

    And I like my elderly clients. They are some of the best people on earth, lots of stories and humor. And most often, very real. Of course there are a few bad apples, just like in all bunches. Those ones lead to good stories, LOL. 



    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    ------------------------------