Pianotech

Hello, I just joined this group as member number 1,000 - I hope that is auspicious! 

PROBLEM: I own a family heirloom Weber grand, circa 1870s, with cracks in two of the treble struts. Multiple experts have told me the piano is a lost cause. Several luthiers are interested in the soundboard and Brazilian rosewood lid. Last month I was in the process of loosening the strings to begin demolition of the piano when a friend suggested I contact a local metalworker, who then put me in touch with an engineer who does 3D scanning and parts design. This fellow was very interested in the problem and spent an hour brainstorming with me piano-side. He explained that 3D scanning has evolved a lot in the past few years, allowing for very precise design and fabrication.

PROPOSAL: The engineer proposed steel braces that would fit atop the broken struts. How to attach them is a question - he suggested removing the nut and screwing that back over a specially-designed section that would be thinner than the rest of the brace, since there is probably not much extra thread AND I know overtightening can be disastrous; the ends also need to be fastened, possibly by filing notches into the rounded corners where the struts descend (see diagram), heating the brace and fitting the ends into the notches so when it cools it will provide some tension to counter the string tension. This engineer is keen to receive feedback from piano experts, thus my post. 
His backup suggestion is brazing, but that will involve removing the harp and I'm not sure it is a better choice.

HISTORY: This piano was rebuilt in the 1970s in Lambertville NJ by Bob Wilson, antique piano specialist, with the assistance of my father. A crack in one treble strut was repaired by Mr. Wilson in the early 2000s by drilling and inserting a threaded pin (stitching?). The piano was shipped to Colorado about 15 years ago, regulation was done, and some months later two new cracks appeared. Mr. Wilson was consulted and didn't consider them to be a danger, and their position made it impossible to repair in the same manner, so we let them be. However, the dry climate exacerbated the issue. Two years ago, when an octave of hammers between the cracked struts stopped reaching strings, I consulted a very reputable technician who told me the piano was irreparable. The frame is 3/4 and the pinblock had tilted enough that hammer shafts contacted wood before heads reached the strings. Removing string tension, though, allowed the cracks to close, hammers to contact strings, and the keyboard to be removed when it had previously been wedged in. 

I have read the pertinent sections of several online manuals as well as many posts in this group. I have also seen another Weber of the same era with the same cracks in the same position, in the next town over here in dry Colorado. I believe the cause of the cracks is twofold: 
1) poor design - the struts are thicker at the bottom, while string tension stresses the top edge more. 
2) dry conditions shrinking the wood

There are pictures below of the instrument (with me, my father and my son who wants to play this piano!), the struts with barely visible cracks, and a rough diagram of the brace as I understand it.
Here are the main questions, and I welcome any other comments with sincere gratitude!
1) Could this bracing solve the design problem?
2) How best to attach the braces?
3) Would it be helpful to reduce tension by lowering pitch (already below 440 for reasons of piano age and personal preference) and possibly removing 1/3 of treble strings as recommended in "Piano Owner's Survival Guide"?
4) The piano has to be moved, preferably before the work is done. Is it better to wait? Moving it to my own house will allow me to better control humidity, stop inconveniencing the friend who has been piano sitting an unplayable instrument for two+ years, and take the time to do the job right. 

With heartfelt thanks,
Bonnie

Hello, I just joined this group as member number 1,000 - I hope that is auspicious!

PROBLEM: I own a family heirloom Weber grand, circa 1870s, with cracks in two of the treble struts. Multiple experts have told me the piano is a lost cause. Several luthiers are interested in the soundboard and Brazilian rosewood lid. Last month I was in the process of loosening the strings to begin demolition of the piano when a friend suggested I contact a local metalworker, who then put me in touch with an engineer who does 3D scanning and parts design. This fellow was very interested in the problem and spent an hour brainstorming with me piano-side. He explained that 3D scanning has evolved a lot in the past few years, allowing for very precise design and fabrication.

PROPOSAL: The engineer proposed steel braces that would fit atop the broken struts. How to attach them is a question - he suggested removing the nut and screwing that back over a specially-designed section that would be thinner than the rest of the brace, since there is probably not much extra thread AND I know overtightening can be disastrous; the ends also need to be fastened, possibly by filing notches into the rounded corners where the struts descend (see diagram), heating the brace and fitting the ends into the notches so when it cools it will provide some tension to counter the string tension. This engineer is keen to receive feedback from piano experts, thus my post.
His backup suggestion is brazing, but that will involve removing the harp and I'm not sure it is a better choice.

HISTORY: This piano was rebuilt in the 1970s in Lambertville NJ by Bob Wilson, antique piano specialist, with the assistance of my father. A crack in one treble strut was repaired by Mr. Wilson in the early 2000s by drilling and inserting a threaded pin (stitching?). The piano was shipped to Colorado about 15 years ago, regulation was done, and some months later two new cracks appeared. Mr. Wilson was consulted and didn't consider them to be a danger, and their position made it impossible to repair in the same manner, so we let them be. However, the dry climate exacerbated the issue. Two years ago, when an octave of hammers between the cracked struts stopped reaching strings, I consulted a very reputable technician who told me the piano was irreparable. The frame is 3/4 and the pinblock had tilted enough that hammer shafts contacted wood before heads reached the strings. Removing string tension, though, allowed the cracks to close, hammers to contact strings, and the keyboard to be removed when it had previously been wedged in.

I have read the pertinent sections of several online manuals as well as many posts in this group. I have also seen another Weber of the same era with the same cracks in the same position, in the next town over here in dry Colorado. I believe the cause of the cracks is twofold:
1) poor design - the struts are thicker at the bottom, while string tension stresses the top edge more.
2) dry conditions shrinking the wood

There are pictures below of the instrument (with me, my father and my son who wants to play this piano!), the struts with barely visible cracks, and a rough diagram of the brace as I understand it.
Here are the main questions, and I welcome any other comments with sincere gratitude!
1) Could this bracing solve the design problem?
2) How best to attach the braces?
3) Would it be helpful to reduce tension by lowering pitch (already below 440 for reasons of piano age and personal preference) and possibly removing 1/3 of treble strings as recommended in "Piano Owner's Survival Guide"?
4) The piano has to be moved, preferably before the work is done. Is it better to wait? Moving it to my own house will allow me to better control humidity, stop inconveniencing the friend who has been piano sitting an unplayable instrument for two+ years, and take the time to do the job right.

With heartfelt thanks,
Bonnie

ANYTHING in a piano can be repaired if the owner can (and wants to) afford to spend the funds to repair it. We just had an excellent reprint article about this sort of thing in the journal if I'm not mistaken.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Hello, I just joined this group as member number 1,000 - I hope that is auspicious!

PROBLEM: I own a family heirloom Weber grand, circa 1870s, with cracks in two of the treble struts. Multiple experts have told me the piano is a lost cause. Several luthiers are interested in the soundboard and Brazilian rosewood lid. Last month I was in the process of loosening the strings to begin demolition of the piano when a friend suggested I contact a local metalworker, who then put me in touch with an engineer who does 3D scanning and parts design. This fellow was very interested in the problem and spent an hour brainstorming with me piano-side. He explained that 3D scanning has evolved a lot in the past few years, allowing for very precise design and fabrication.

PROPOSAL: The engineer proposed steel braces that would fit atop the broken struts. How to attach them is a question - he suggested removing the nut and screwing that back over a specially-designed section that would be thinner than the rest of the brace, since there is probably not much extra thread AND I know overtightening can be disastrous; the ends also need to be fastened, possibly by filing notches into the rounded corners where the struts descend (see diagram), heating the brace and fitting the ends into the notches so when it cools it will provide some tension to counter the string tension. This engineer is keen to receive feedback from piano experts, thus my post.
His backup suggestion is brazing, but that will involve removing the harp and I'm not sure it is a better choice.

HISTORY: This piano was rebuilt in the 1970s in Lambertville NJ by Bob Wilson, antique piano specialist, with the assistance of my father. A crack in one treble strut was repaired by Mr. Wilson in the early 2000s by drilling and inserting a threaded pin (stitching?). The piano was shipped to Colorado about 15 years ago, regulation was done, and some months later two new cracks appeared. Mr. Wilson was consulted and didn't consider them to be a danger, and their position made it impossible to repair in the same manner, so we let them be. However, the dry climate exacerbated the issue. Two years ago, when an octave of hammers between the cracked struts stopped reaching strings, I consulted a very reputable technician who told me the piano was irreparable. The frame is 3/4 and the pinblock had tilted enough that hammer shafts contacted wood before heads reached the strings. Removing string tension, though, allowed the cracks to close, hammers to contact strings, and the keyboard to be removed when it had previously been wedged in.

I have read the pertinent sections of several online manuals as well as many posts in this group. I have also seen another Weber of the same era with the same cracks in the same position, in the next town over here in dry Colorado. I believe the cause of the cracks is twofold:
1) poor design - the struts are thicker at the bottom, while string tension stresses the top edge more.
2) dry conditions shrinking the wood

There are pictures below of the instrument (with me, my father and my son who wants to play this piano!), the struts with barely visible cracks, and a rough diagram of the brace as I understand it.
Here are the main questions, and I welcome any other comments with sincere gratitude!
1) Could this bracing solve the design problem?
2) How best to attach the braces?
3) Would it be helpful to reduce tension by lowering pitch (already below 440 for reasons of piano age and personal preference) and possibly removing 1/3 of treble strings as recommended in "Piano Owner's Survival Guide"?
4) The piano has to be moved, preferably before the work is done. Is it better to wait? Moving it to my own house will allow me to better control humidity, stop inconveniencing the friend who has been piano sitting an unplayable instrument for two+ years, and take the time to do the job right.

With heartfelt thanks,
Bonnie

James, Thank you for mentioning McMorrow. I read his description of the process and wonder if it would work with the cracks being so close to the bolt holes. I'd love your opinion on that question.
The two Webers are of the same era.  I'll have to check the serial number on the hotel's, if they will even let me near it.  I understand guaranteeing such a repair is not in the cards, but I'm not giving up just yet.

------------------------------
Bonnie Draina
Carbondale CO
------------------------------

Hello, I just joined this group as member number 1,000 - I hope that is auspicious!

PROBLEM: I own a family heirloom Weber grand, circa 1870s, with cracks in two of the treble struts. Multiple experts have told me the piano is a lost cause. Several luthiers are interested in the soundboard and Brazilian rosewood lid. Last month I was in the process of loosening the strings to begin demolition of the piano when a friend suggested I contact a local metalworker, who then put me in touch with an engineer who does 3D scanning and parts design. This fellow was very interested in the problem and spent an hour brainstorming with me piano-side. He explained that 3D scanning has evolved a lot in the past few years, allowing for very precise design and fabrication.

PROPOSAL: The engineer proposed steel braces that would fit atop the broken struts. How to attach them is a question - he suggested removing the nut and screwing that back over a specially-designed section that would be thinner than the rest of the brace, since there is probably not much extra thread AND I know overtightening can be disastrous; the ends also need to be fastened, possibly by filing notches into the rounded corners where the struts descend (see diagram), heating the brace and fitting the ends into the notches so when it cools it will provide some tension to counter the string tension. This engineer is keen to receive feedback from piano experts, thus my post.
His backup suggestion is brazing, but that will involve removing the harp and I'm not sure it is a better choice.

HISTORY: This piano was rebuilt in the 1970s in Lambertville NJ by Bob Wilson, antique piano specialist, with the assistance of my father. A crack in one treble strut was repaired by Mr. Wilson in the early 2000s by drilling and inserting a threaded pin (stitching?). The piano was shipped to Colorado about 15 years ago, regulation was done, and some months later two new cracks appeared. Mr. Wilson was consulted and didn't consider them to be a danger, and their position made it impossible to repair in the same manner, so we let them be. However, the dry climate exacerbated the issue. Two years ago, when an octave of hammers between the cracked struts stopped reaching strings, I consulted a very reputable technician who told me the piano was irreparable. The frame is 3/4 and the pinblock had tilted enough that hammer shafts contacted wood before heads reached the strings. Removing string tension, though, allowed the cracks to close, hammers to contact strings, and the keyboard to be removed when it had previously been wedged in.

I have read the pertinent sections of several online manuals as well as many posts in this group. I have also seen another Weber of the same era with the same cracks in the same position, in the next town over here in dry Colorado. I believe the cause of the cracks is twofold:
1) poor design - the struts are thicker at the bottom, while string tension stresses the top edge more.
2) dry conditions shrinking the wood

There are pictures below of the instrument (with me, my father and my son who wants to play this piano!), the struts with barely visible cracks, and a rough diagram of the brace as I understand it.
Here are the main questions, and I welcome any other comments with sincere gratitude!
1) Could this bracing solve the design problem?
2) How best to attach the braces?
3) Would it be helpful to reduce tension by lowering pitch (already below 440 for reasons of piano age and personal preference) and possibly removing 1/3 of treble strings as recommended in "Piano Owner's Survival Guide"?
4) The piano has to be moved, preferably before the work is done. Is it better to wait? Moving it to my own house will allow me to better control humidity, stop inconveniencing the friend who has been piano sitting an unplayable instrument for two+ years, and take the time to do the job right.

With heartfelt thanks,
Bonnie

You might want to consult inplace.com  re:  InPlace Machining Co

Hello, I just joined this group as member number 1,000 - I hope that is auspicious!

PROBLEM: I own a family heirloom Weber grand, circa 1870s, with cracks in two of the treble struts. Multiple experts have told me the piano is a lost cause. Several luthiers are interested in the soundboard and Brazilian rosewood lid. Last month I was in the process of loosening the strings to begin demolition of the piano when a friend suggested I contact a local metalworker, who then put me in touch with an engineer who does 3D scanning and parts design. This fellow was very interested in the problem and spent an hour brainstorming with me piano-side. He explained that 3D scanning has evolved a lot in the past few years, allowing for very precise design and fabrication.

PROPOSAL: The engineer proposed steel braces that would fit atop the broken struts. How to attach them is a question - he suggested removing the nut and screwing that back over a specially-designed section that would be thinner than the rest of the brace, since there is probably not much extra thread AND I know overtightening can be disastrous; the ends also need to be fastened, possibly by filing notches into the rounded corners where the struts descend (see diagram), heating the brace and fitting the ends into the notches so when it cools it will provide some tension to counter the string tension. This engineer is keen to receive feedback from piano experts, thus my post.
His backup suggestion is brazing, but that will involve removing the harp and I'm not sure it is a better choice.

HISTORY: This piano was rebuilt in the 1970s in Lambertville NJ by Bob Wilson, antique piano specialist, with the assistance of my father. A crack in one treble strut was repaired by Mr. Wilson in the early 2000s by drilling and inserting a threaded pin (stitching?). The piano was shipped to Colorado about 15 years ago, regulation was done, and some months later two new cracks appeared. Mr. Wilson was consulted and didn't consider them to be a danger, and their position made it impossible to repair in the same manner, so we let them be. However, the dry climate exacerbated the issue. Two years ago, when an octave of hammers between the cracked struts stopped reaching strings, I consulted a very reputable technician who told me the piano was irreparable. The frame is 3/4 and the pinblock had tilted enough that hammer shafts contacted wood before heads reached the strings. Removing string tension, though, allowed the cracks to close, hammers to contact strings, and the keyboard to be removed when it had previously been wedged in.

I have read the pertinent sections of several online manuals as well as many posts in this group. I have also seen another Weber of the same era with the same cracks in the same position, in the next town over here in dry Colorado. I believe the cause of the cracks is twofold:
1) poor design - the struts are thicker at the bottom, while string tension stresses the top edge more.
2) dry conditions shrinking the wood

There are pictures below of the instrument (with me, my father and my son who wants to play this piano!), the struts with barely visible cracks, and a rough diagram of the brace as I understand it.
Here are the main questions, and I welcome any other comments with sincere gratitude!
1) Could this bracing solve the design problem?
2) How best to attach the braces?
3) Would it be helpful to reduce tension by lowering pitch (already below 440 for reasons of piano age and personal preference) and possibly removing 1/3 of treble strings as recommended in "Piano Owner's Survival Guide"?
4) The piano has to be moved, preferably before the work is done. Is it better to wait? Moving it to my own house will allow me to better control humidity, stop inconveniencing the friend who has been piano sitting an unplayable instrument for two+ years, and take the time to do the job right.

With heartfelt thanks,
Bonnie

You might want to consult inplace.com  re:  InPlace Machining Co

Hello, I just joined this group as member number 1,000 - I hope that is auspicious!

PROBLEM: I own a family heirloom Weber grand, circa 1870s, with cracks in two of the treble struts. Multiple experts have told me the piano is a lost cause. Several luthiers are interested in the soundboard and Brazilian rosewood lid. Last month I was in the process of loosening the strings to begin demolition of the piano when a friend suggested I contact a local metalworker, who then put me in touch with an engineer who does 3D scanning and parts design. This fellow was very interested in the problem and spent an hour brainstorming with me piano-side. He explained that 3D scanning has evolved a lot in the past few years, allowing for very precise design and fabrication.

PROPOSAL: The engineer proposed steel braces that would fit atop the broken struts. How to attach them is a question - he suggested removing the nut and screwing that back over a specially-designed section that would be thinner than the rest of the brace, since there is probably not much extra thread AND I know overtightening can be disastrous; the ends also need to be fastened, possibly by filing notches into the rounded corners where the struts descend (see diagram), heating the brace and fitting the ends into the notches so when it cools it will provide some tension to counter the string tension. This engineer is keen to receive feedback from piano experts, thus my post.
His backup suggestion is brazing, but that will involve removing the harp and I'm not sure it is a better choice.

HISTORY: This piano was rebuilt in the 1970s in Lambertville NJ by Bob Wilson, antique piano specialist, with the assistance of my father. A crack in one treble strut was repaired by Mr. Wilson in the early 2000s by drilling and inserting a threaded pin (stitching?). The piano was shipped to Colorado about 15 years ago, regulation was done, and some months later two new cracks appeared. Mr. Wilson was consulted and didn't consider them to be a danger, and their position made it impossible to repair in the same manner, so we let them be. However, the dry climate exacerbated the issue. Two years ago, when an octave of hammers between the cracked struts stopped reaching strings, I consulted a very reputable technician who told me the piano was irreparable. The frame is 3/4 and the pinblock had tilted enough that hammer shafts contacted wood before heads reached the strings. Removing string tension, though, allowed the cracks to close, hammers to contact strings, and the keyboard to be removed when it had previously been wedged in.

I have read the pertinent sections of several online manuals as well as many posts in this group. I have also seen another Weber of the same era with the same cracks in the same position, in the next town over here in dry Colorado. I believe the cause of the cracks is twofold:
1) poor design - the struts are thicker at the bottom, while string tension stresses the top edge more.
2) dry conditions shrinking the wood

There are pictures below of the instrument (with me, my father and my son who wants to play this piano!), the struts with barely visible cracks, and a rough diagram of the brace as I understand it.
Here are the main questions, and I welcome any other comments with sincere gratitude!
1) Could this bracing solve the design problem?
2) How best to attach the braces?
3) Would it be helpful to reduce tension by lowering pitch (already below 440 for reasons of piano age and personal preference) and possibly removing 1/3 of treble strings as recommended in "Piano Owner's Survival Guide"?
4) The piano has to be moved, preferably before the work is done. Is it better to wait? Moving it to my own house will allow me to better control humidity, stop inconveniencing the friend who has been piano sitting an unplayable instrument for two+ years, and take the time to do the job right.

With heartfelt thanks,
Bonnie

Hello, I just joined this group as member number 1,000 - I hope that is auspicious!

PROBLEM: I own a family heirloom Weber grand, circa 1870s, with cracks in two of the treble struts. Multiple experts have told me the piano is a lost cause. Several luthiers are interested in the soundboard and Brazilian rosewood lid. Last month I was in the process of loosening the strings to begin demolition of the piano when a friend suggested I contact a local metalworker, who then put me in touch with an engineer who does 3D scanning and parts design. This fellow was very interested in the problem and spent an hour brainstorming with me piano-side. He explained that 3D scanning has evolved a lot in the past few years, allowing for very precise design and fabrication.

PROPOSAL: The engineer proposed steel braces that would fit atop the broken struts. How to attach them is a question - he suggested removing the nut and screwing that back over a specially-designed section that would be thinner than the rest of the brace, since there is probably not much extra thread AND I know overtightening can be disastrous; the ends also need to be fastened, possibly by filing notches into the rounded corners where the struts descend (see diagram), heating the brace and fitting the ends into the notches so when it cools it will provide some tension to counter the string tension. This engineer is keen to receive feedback from piano experts, thus my post.
His backup suggestion is brazing, but that will involve removing the harp and I'm not sure it is a better choice.

HISTORY: This piano was rebuilt in the 1970s in Lambertville NJ by Bob Wilson, antique piano specialist, with the assistance of my father. A crack in one treble strut was repaired by Mr. Wilson in the early 2000s by drilling and inserting a threaded pin (stitching?). The piano was shipped to Colorado about 15 years ago, regulation was done, and some months later two new cracks appeared. Mr. Wilson was consulted and didn't consider them to be a danger, and their position made it impossible to repair in the same manner, so we let them be. However, the dry climate exacerbated the issue. Two years ago, when an octave of hammers between the cracked struts stopped reaching strings, I consulted a very reputable technician who told me the piano was irreparable. The frame is 3/4 and the pinblock had tilted enough that hammer shafts contacted wood before heads reached the strings. Removing string tension, though, allowed the cracks to close, hammers to contact strings, and the keyboard to be removed when it had previously been wedged in.

I have read the pertinent sections of several online manuals as well as many posts in this group. I have also seen another Weber of the same era with the same cracks in the same position, in the next town over here in dry Colorado. I believe the cause of the cracks is twofold:
1) poor design - the struts are thicker at the bottom, while string tension stresses the top edge more.
2) dry conditions shrinking the wood

There are pictures below of the instrument (with me, my father and my son who wants to play this piano!), the struts with barely visible cracks, and a rough diagram of the brace as I understand it.
Here are the main questions, and I welcome any other comments with sincere gratitude!
1) Could this bracing solve the design problem?
2) How best to attach the braces?
3) Would it be helpful to reduce tension by lowering pitch (already below 440 for reasons of piano age and personal preference) and possibly removing 1/3 of treble strings as recommended in "Piano Owner's Survival Guide"?
4) The piano has to be moved, preferably before the work is done. Is it better to wait? Moving it to my own house will allow me to better control humidity, stop inconveniencing the friend who has been piano sitting an unplayable instrument for two+ years, and take the time to do the job right.

With heartfelt thanks,
Bonnie

My usual response to a serious problem like this is to consider the expense of any repairs and the actual value of the instrument, which is usually less than the cost of adequate repairs.  All of the welders I have spoken to said that, without de-stressing the plate at 1500 ° F you can't weld cast iron and brazing is not usually strong enough to work.
I have repaired serious cracks, some worse than this, however; the usual stress on the plate is downward, hence the nose bolts and heavy support beams under the piano with the nosebolt nuts being mostly decorative.  In this case the stress seems to be upward, causing the cracks to open as seen.  Perhaps lowering the tension and installing a heavier nut on the nose bolt and lowering the nose bolt enough to remove the crack and stress might work.  This would be much simpler than any of the other solutions. It is also possible that the nose bolt is pulling out of the beam below, if this is the case a carrage bolt or a bolt through the beam with a strong nut to support it might hold the tension better than the wood threads in the beam now.

Hello, I just joined this group as member number 1,000 - I hope that is auspicious!

PROBLEM: I own a family heirloom Weber grand, circa 1870s, with cracks in two of the treble struts. Multiple experts have told me the piano is a lost cause. Several luthiers are interested in the soundboard and Brazilian rosewood lid. Last month I was in the process of loosening the strings to begin demolition of the piano when a friend suggested I contact a local metalworker, who then put me in touch with an engineer who does 3D scanning and parts design. This fellow was very interested in the problem and spent an hour brainstorming with me piano-side. He explained that 3D scanning has evolved a lot in the past few years, allowing for very precise design and fabrication.

PROPOSAL: The engineer proposed steel braces that would fit atop the broken struts. How to attach them is a question - he suggested removing the nut and screwing that back over a specially-designed section that would be thinner than the rest of the brace, since there is probably not much extra thread AND I know overtightening can be disastrous; the ends also need to be fastened, possibly by filing notches into the rounded corners where the struts descend (see diagram), heating the brace and fitting the ends into the notches so when it cools it will provide some tension to counter the string tension. This engineer is keen to receive feedback from piano experts, thus my post.
His backup suggestion is brazing, but that will involve removing the harp and I'm not sure it is a better choice.

HISTORY: This piano was rebuilt in the 1970s in Lambertville NJ by Bob Wilson, antique piano specialist, with the assistance of my father. A crack in one treble strut was repaired by Mr. Wilson in the early 2000s by drilling and inserting a threaded pin (stitching?). The piano was shipped to Colorado about 15 years ago, regulation was done, and some months later two new cracks appeared. Mr. Wilson was consulted and didn't consider them to be a danger, and their position made it impossible to repair in the same manner, so we let them be. However, the dry climate exacerbated the issue. Two years ago, when an octave of hammers between the cracked struts stopped reaching strings, I consulted a very reputable technician who told me the piano was irreparable. The frame is 3/4 and the pinblock had tilted enough that hammer shafts contacted wood before heads reached the strings. Removing string tension, though, allowed the cracks to close, hammers to contact strings, and the keyboard to be removed when it had previously been wedged in.

I have read the pertinent sections of several online manuals as well as many posts in this group. I have also seen another Weber of the same era with the same cracks in the same position, in the next town over here in dry Colorado. I believe the cause of the cracks is twofold:
1) poor design - the struts are thicker at the bottom, while string tension stresses the top edge more.
2) dry conditions shrinking the wood

There are pictures below of the instrument (with me, my father and my son who wants to play this piano!), the struts with barely visible cracks, and a rough diagram of the brace as I understand it.
Here are the main questions, and I welcome any other comments with sincere gratitude!
1) Could this bracing solve the design problem?
2) How best to attach the braces?
3) Would it be helpful to reduce tension by lowering pitch (already below 440 for reasons of piano age and personal preference) and possibly removing 1/3 of treble strings as recommended in "Piano Owner's Survival Guide"?
4) The piano has to be moved, preferably before the work is done. Is it better to wait? Moving it to my own house will allow me to better control humidity, stop inconveniencing the friend who has been piano sitting an unplayable instrument for two+ years, and take the time to do the job right.

With heartfelt thanks,
Bonnie

My usual response to a serious problem like this is to consider the expense of any repairs and the actual value of the instrument, which is usually less than the cost of adequate repairs.  All of the welders I have spoken to said that, without de-stressing the plate at 1500 ° F you can't weld cast iron and brazing is not usually strong enough to work.
I have repaired serious cracks, some worse than this, however; the usual stress on the plate is downward, hence the nose bolts and heavy support beams under the piano with the nosebolt nuts being mostly decorative.  In this case the stress seems to be upward, causing the cracks to open as seen.  Perhaps lowering the tension and installing a heavier nut on the nose bolt and lowering the nose bolt enough to remove the crack and stress might work.  This would be much simpler than any of the other solutions. It is also possible that the nose bolt is pulling out of the beam below, if this is the case a carrage bolt or a bolt through the beam with a strong nut to support it might hold the tension better than the wood threads in the beam now.

Hello, I just joined this group as member number 1,000 - I hope that is auspicious!

PROBLEM: I own a family heirloom Weber grand, circa 1870s, with cracks in two of the treble struts. Multiple experts have told me the piano is a lost cause. Several luthiers are interested in the soundboard and Brazilian rosewood lid. Last month I was in the process of loosening the strings to begin demolition of the piano when a friend suggested I contact a local metalworker, who then put me in touch with an engineer who does 3D scanning and parts design. This fellow was very interested in the problem and spent an hour brainstorming with me piano-side. He explained that 3D scanning has evolved a lot in the past few years, allowing for very precise design and fabrication.

PROPOSAL: The engineer proposed steel braces that would fit atop the broken struts. How to attach them is a question - he suggested removing the nut and screwing that back over a specially-designed section that would be thinner than the rest of the brace, since there is probably not much extra thread AND I know overtightening can be disastrous; the ends also need to be fastened, possibly by filing notches into the rounded corners where the struts descend (see diagram), heating the brace and fitting the ends into the notches so when it cools it will provide some tension to counter the string tension. This engineer is keen to receive feedback from piano experts, thus my post.
His backup suggestion is brazing, but that will involve removing the harp and I'm not sure it is a better choice.

HISTORY: This piano was rebuilt in the 1970s in Lambertville NJ by Bob Wilson, antique piano specialist, with the assistance of my father. A crack in one treble strut was repaired by Mr. Wilson in the early 2000s by drilling and inserting a threaded pin (stitching?). The piano was shipped to Colorado about 15 years ago, regulation was done, and some months later two new cracks appeared. Mr. Wilson was consulted and didn't consider them to be a danger, and their position made it impossible to repair in the same manner, so we let them be. However, the dry climate exacerbated the issue. Two years ago, when an octave of hammers between the cracked struts stopped reaching strings, I consulted a very reputable technician who told me the piano was irreparable. The frame is 3/4 and the pinblock had tilted enough that hammer shafts contacted wood before heads reached the strings. Removing string tension, though, allowed the cracks to close, hammers to contact strings, and the keyboard to be removed when it had previously been wedged in.

I have read the pertinent sections of several online manuals as well as many posts in this group. I have also seen another Weber of the same era with the same cracks in the same position, in the next town over here in dry Colorado. I believe the cause of the cracks is twofold:
1) poor design - the struts are thicker at the bottom, while string tension stresses the top edge more.
2) dry conditions shrinking the wood

There are pictures below of the instrument (with me, my father and my son who wants to play this piano!), the struts with barely visible cracks, and a rough diagram of the brace as I understand it.
Here are the main questions, and I welcome any other comments with sincere gratitude!
1) Could this bracing solve the design problem?
2) How best to attach the braces?
3) Would it be helpful to reduce tension by lowering pitch (already below 440 for reasons of piano age and personal preference) and possibly removing 1/3 of treble strings as recommended in "Piano Owner's Survival Guide"?
4) The piano has to be moved, preferably before the work is done. Is it better to wait? Moving it to my own house will allow me to better control humidity, stop inconveniencing the friend who has been piano sitting an unplayable instrument for two+ years, and take the time to do the job right.

With heartfelt thanks,
Bonnie

Blaine, thank you for this detailed reply. I'm going to have to find someone to look into the issues you mentioned. We have only one piano technician serving our region now, so it may be a while. 

My usual response to a serious problem like this is to consider the expense of any repairs and the actual value of the instrument, which is usually less than the cost of adequate repairs.  All of the welders I have spoken to said that, without de-stressing the plate at 1500 ° F you can't weld cast iron and brazing is not usually strong enough to work.
I have repaired serious cracks, some worse than this, however; the usual stress on the plate is downward, hence the nose bolts and heavy support beams under the piano with the nosebolt nuts being mostly decorative.  In this case the stress seems to be upward, causing the cracks to open as seen.  Perhaps lowering the tension and installing a heavier nut on the nose bolt and lowering the nose bolt enough to remove the crack and stress might work.  This would be much simpler than any of the other solutions. It is also possible that the nose bolt is pulling out of the beam below, if this is the case a carrage bolt or a bolt through the beam with a strong nut to support it might hold the tension better than the wood threads in the beam now.

Hello, I just joined this group as member number 1,000 - I hope that is auspicious!

PROBLEM: I own a family heirloom Weber grand, circa 1870s, with cracks in two of the treble struts. Multiple experts have told me the piano is a lost cause. Several luthiers are interested in the soundboard and Brazilian rosewood lid. Last month I was in the process of loosening the strings to begin demolition of the piano when a friend suggested I contact a local metalworker, who then put me in touch with an engineer who does 3D scanning and parts design. This fellow was very interested in the problem and spent an hour brainstorming with me piano-side. He explained that 3D scanning has evolved a lot in the past few years, allowing for very precise design and fabrication.

PROPOSAL: The engineer proposed steel braces that would fit atop the broken struts. How to attach them is a question - he suggested removing the nut and screwing that back over a specially-designed section that would be thinner than the rest of the brace, since there is probably not much extra thread AND I know overtightening can be disastrous; the ends also need to be fastened, possibly by filing notches into the rounded corners where the struts descend (see diagram), heating the brace and fitting the ends into the notches so when it cools it will provide some tension to counter the string tension. This engineer is keen to receive feedback from piano experts, thus my post.
His backup suggestion is brazing, but that will involve removing the harp and I'm not sure it is a better choice.

HISTORY: This piano was rebuilt in the 1970s in Lambertville NJ by Bob Wilson, antique piano specialist, with the assistance of my father. A crack in one treble strut was repaired by Mr. Wilson in the early 2000s by drilling and inserting a threaded pin (stitching?). The piano was shipped to Colorado about 15 years ago, regulation was done, and some months later two new cracks appeared. Mr. Wilson was consulted and didn't consider them to be a danger, and their position made it impossible to repair in the same manner, so we let them be. However, the dry climate exacerbated the issue. Two years ago, when an octave of hammers between the cracked struts stopped reaching strings, I consulted a very reputable technician who told me the piano was irreparable. The frame is 3/4 and the pinblock had tilted enough that hammer shafts contacted wood before heads reached the strings. Removing string tension, though, allowed the cracks to close, hammers to contact strings, and the keyboard to be removed when it had previously been wedged in.

I have read the pertinent sections of several online manuals as well as many posts in this group. I have also seen another Weber of the same era with the same cracks in the same position, in the next town over here in dry Colorado. I believe the cause of the cracks is twofold:
1) poor design - the struts are thicker at the bottom, while string tension stresses the top edge more.
2) dry conditions shrinking the wood

There are pictures below of the instrument (with me, my father and my son who wants to play this piano!), the struts with barely visible cracks, and a rough diagram of the brace as I understand it.
Here are the main questions, and I welcome any other comments with sincere gratitude!
1) Could this bracing solve the design problem?
2) How best to attach the braces?
3) Would it be helpful to reduce tension by lowering pitch (already below 440 for reasons of piano age and personal preference) and possibly removing 1/3 of treble strings as recommended in "Piano Owner's Survival Guide"?
4) The piano has to be moved, preferably before the work is done. Is it better to wait? Moving it to my own house will allow me to better control humidity, stop inconveniencing the friend who has been piano sitting an unplayable instrument for two+ years, and take the time to do the job right.

With heartfelt thanks,
Bonnie

Bonnie,

After re-reading your OP I am now on the side of Parker Leigh and would pointbthe finger at something going wrong with the pinblock, or something directly related to the rebuild.

I know it can be hard to say goodbye to things like this. I had a really hard time coming to grips with losing the old family Bechstein B (for the same reasons as this piano...three cracked struts). I learned to play AND tune on this piano. I get emotional just thinking about it. However, although all things CAN be fixed and saved, it's not always the best thing to do. And if it were to in fact be traced to 50 year old repair work it becomes all the more complicated and risky to go there again.

Funds might well be better directed elsewhere.

Respectfully,

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Blaine, thank you for this detailed reply. I'm going to have to find someone to look into the issues you mentioned. We have only one piano technician serving our region now, so it may be a while. 

My usual response to a serious problem like this is to consider the expense of any repairs and the actual value of the instrument, which is usually less than the cost of adequate repairs.  All of the welders I have spoken to said that, without de-stressing the plate at 1500 ° F you can't weld cast iron and brazing is not usually strong enough to work.
I have repaired serious cracks, some worse than this, however; the usual stress on the plate is downward, hence the nose bolts and heavy support beams under the piano with the nosebolt nuts being mostly decorative.  In this case the stress seems to be upward, causing the cracks to open as seen.  Perhaps lowering the tension and installing a heavier nut on the nose bolt and lowering the nose bolt enough to remove the crack and stress might work.  This would be much simpler than any of the other solutions. It is also possible that the nose bolt is pulling out of the beam below, if this is the case a carrage bolt or a bolt through the beam with a strong nut to support it might hold the tension better than the wood threads in the beam now.

Hello, I just joined this group as member number 1,000 - I hope that is auspicious!

PROBLEM: I own a family heirloom Weber grand, circa 1870s, with cracks in two of the treble struts. Multiple experts have told me the piano is a lost cause. Several luthiers are interested in the soundboard and Brazilian rosewood lid. Last month I was in the process of loosening the strings to begin demolition of the piano when a friend suggested I contact a local metalworker, who then put me in touch with an engineer who does 3D scanning and parts design. This fellow was very interested in the problem and spent an hour brainstorming with me piano-side. He explained that 3D scanning has evolved a lot in the past few years, allowing for very precise design and fabrication.

PROPOSAL: The engineer proposed steel braces that would fit atop the broken struts. How to attach them is a question - he suggested removing the nut and screwing that back over a specially-designed section that would be thinner than the rest of the brace, since there is probably not much extra thread AND I know overtightening can be disastrous; the ends also need to be fastened, possibly by filing notches into the rounded corners where the struts descend (see diagram), heating the brace and fitting the ends into the notches so when it cools it will provide some tension to counter the string tension. This engineer is keen to receive feedback from piano experts, thus my post.
His backup suggestion is brazing, but that will involve removing the harp and I'm not sure it is a better choice.

HISTORY: This piano was rebuilt in the 1970s in Lambertville NJ by Bob Wilson, antique piano specialist, with the assistance of my father. A crack in one treble strut was repaired by Mr. Wilson in the early 2000s by drilling and inserting a threaded pin (stitching?). The piano was shipped to Colorado about 15 years ago, regulation was done, and some months later two new cracks appeared. Mr. Wilson was consulted and didn't consider them to be a danger, and their position made it impossible to repair in the same manner, so we let them be. However, the dry climate exacerbated the issue. Two years ago, when an octave of hammers between the cracked struts stopped reaching strings, I consulted a very reputable technician who told me the piano was irreparable. The frame is 3/4 and the pinblock had tilted enough that hammer shafts contacted wood before heads reached the strings. Removing string tension, though, allowed the cracks to close, hammers to contact strings, and the keyboard to be removed when it had previously been wedged in.

I have read the pertinent sections of several online manuals as well as many posts in this group. I have also seen another Weber of the same era with the same cracks in the same position, in the next town over here in dry Colorado. I believe the cause of the cracks is twofold:
1) poor design - the struts are thicker at the bottom, while string tension stresses the top edge more.
2) dry conditions shrinking the wood

There are pictures below of the instrument (with me, my father and my son who wants to play this piano!), the struts with barely visible cracks, and a rough diagram of the brace as I understand it.
Here are the main questions, and I welcome any other comments with sincere gratitude!
1) Could this bracing solve the design problem?
2) How best to attach the braces?
3) Would it be helpful to reduce tension by lowering pitch (already below 440 for reasons of piano age and personal preference) and possibly removing 1/3 of treble strings as recommended in "Piano Owner's Survival Guide"?
4) The piano has to be moved, preferably before the work is done. Is it better to wait? Moving it to my own house will allow me to better control humidity, stop inconveniencing the friend who has been piano sitting an unplayable instrument for two+ years, and take the time to do the job right.

With heartfelt thanks,
Bonnie