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  • 1.  Why the laws of physics don't actually exist...

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-11-2022 12:08
    All-

    I am in way over my head here,  but it does sometimes seem to me the we are trying to describe things that we are sure are quantifiable but may not be, at least not in the way we think they are. Kurt Godel theorized  that any mathematical  theory based on an axiom, rules assumed to be correct a priori, is internally inconsistent. Not the thing itself, but something we use to understand the thing.  Again I'm sure I am mangling this and I am neither a scientist nor a mathematician by any stretch. But it does seem we hold pretty dogmatically to our beliefs about some things in piano technology to the exclusion of others when a more open beginners mind may help us to remain humble  and more accepting of other viewpoints. Not to get all wavy gravy or "woke" on the weekend, certainly not trying to start arguments, but this article just tipped over a few ideas in my head after a long week.

    Please enjoy and best wishes to all-

    David


    Why the laws of physics don't actually exist
    New Scientist remove preview
    Why the laws of physics don't actually exist
    What we call laws of physics are often just mathematical descriptions of some part of nature. Ultimate physical laws probably don't exist and physics is all the better for it, says theoretical physicist Sankar Das Sarma The following is an extract from our Lost in Space-Time newsletter.
    View this on New Scientist >



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    David C. Brown RPT
    Garland TX
    tunermandb88.com
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  • 2.  RE: Why the laws of physics don't actually exist...

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-11-2022 17:38
    Thanks for sharing the article, David.

    There is, indeed, application to pianos of the general concepts contained therein, and we run up against them as we look more and more precisely and minutely at various phenomena. 

    Pitch, for instance. Once you start measuring (attempting to measure) within 0.5¢, you find that for most strings the pitch isn't stable enough to be measured at that level of refinement. That is, it changes from prompt pitch through decay, and in many cases varies up and down throughout its decay, or the string/SB/bridge produces more than one pitch. We tune to averages, and have to pick when to listen (aurally or measuring with the machine).

    Same thing for hammer striking string, and the interface between the felt and the wire as well as the contribution of the flange/shank/hammerhead in producing a consistent or inconsistent blow (depending on factors like balance, flex, firmness/sloppiness, precision of arc, etc.) What is most important in setting the basis for tone, and in creating a controllable tonal gradient? 

    We need to approach precision as consistently as we can, while conceding that the closer we approach, the fuzzier things get. And there are so many factors involved in the ultimate production of tone that we can only ever scratch the surface. Which is why the field is so endlessly fascinating for those of us who become obsessed with it.

    A happy holiday season to all!
     
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    http://fredsturm.net
    www.artoftuning.com
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." Twain






  • 3.  RE: Why the laws of physics don't actually exist...

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-12-2022 08:23
    Hi, David.

    Interesting. I think this points to why it is often so difficult to discuss the nature
    of the piano variabilities with finite thinkers. The most frustrating moments I have
    had involved trying to explain to engineering types that nothing in the piano can be
    pinned down. Like in one master tuning when trying to train a CTE candidate
    RTP who was also a licenced engineer and insisted that the notes occur at a perfect
    mathematical frequency number. That master tuning took 6 hours because 
    no other examiners were available since they were all at the Banquet, which I 
    therefore missed. Maybe I will carry a copy of this article with me. No matter 
    how authoritative, people often only believe things that are written down. 

    Thanks for posting. 

    --





  • 4.  RE: Why the laws of physics don't actually exist...

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-12-2022 09:50

    Dave, what a wonderful REAL LIFE example of why this is all worth taking seriously. And yes, thanks for sharing this David! 

    Dave, one other idea in addition to this for "making your/our case" in situations like this is to bring up the fact that all of our theories are immediately "altered" by 1: inharmonicity  and 2: variables in manufacturing (variations in bridges, soundboards, plate making, string making,  etc etc etc…). 

    This truly is "real-life" stuff and when you really stop & think about it…it's almost "miraculous" that we are even able to get the amazing results that we do!! Especially when trying to tune, voice, etc several pianos TOGETHER. This touches so many areas of our industry….



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    Kevin Fortenberry
    Registered Piano Technician
    Longview, TX 75602
    806-778-3962
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  • 5.  RE: Why the laws of physics don't actually exist...

    Posted 12-19-2022 09:29
    Thanks for sharing! That's interesting information, especially for me as a physics student. I'm researching this theme for a long time but I see these materials for the first time. I even used this source http://essaypapers.reviews/ to get ready for other tasks and spend more time on them. Really useful

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    Dasy Stors
    Minette AL
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  • 6.  RE: Why the laws of physics don't actually exist...

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-20-2022 08:27
    All-
    Many thanks for your helpful responses. Thinking continues which is one of the points........

    Warm best wishes to all.

    David

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    David C. Brown RPT
    Garland TX
    tunermandb88.com
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  • 7.  RE: Why the laws of physics don't actually exist...

    Posted 10-16-2023 15:52

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    Jose Miller
    Washington WA
    (147) 852-3685
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