Pianotech

Expand all | Collapse all

Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

  • 1.  Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-22-2013 10:48
    Shortly after the Chicago convention this summer, I remember someone on this forum said he was was going to write about Ted Sambell's class on vertical hammer shaping, but I don't think I ever saw it here.  

    That was one class I couldn't attend, and I'd really like to hear about it!

    Hopefully,

    Ginny Bear

    -------------------------------------------
    Seattle WA
    425-765-3514
    -------------------------------------------


  • 2.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-22-2013 11:31
    That was me, and I haven't forgotten. I'll try to get to it soon.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
    -------------------------------------------








  • 3.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2013 12:52
    Hi, Virginia. Indeed, you missed a wonderful class. I took a few notes, but mostly I took lots of pictures. I would be glad to share any and all of this with you. I have not contributed much to this list, so I am not sure the best way to share what I have with you. ------------------------------------------- Doug Garman, RPT Piano Technician Arlington TX 817-578-4796 -------------------------------------------


  • 4.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2013 15:21
    Hi Doug,

    I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate seeing your photos.  I've never done it, but maybe you could try putting them up on the myptg site via the blog function.  Click on the blog heading above, click on start your own blog entry, then once you enter the title and all that, click on the image manager button - it's at the top left of the text window under the words "font name" - it looks like a postage stamp with mountains and a sun.  Then you can upload the photos from your computer.

    Go for it?

    -------------------------------------------
    Zeno Wood
    Brooklyn, NY
    -------------------------------------------








  • 5.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Posted 08-23-2013 15:40
    I'd also love to hear about the class, and to view the photos.

    I was tuning concerts on the Oregon Coast, so I had to miss the class.
    Aside from bitching about how the convention is ALWAYS held on
    exactly the same week, which seems totally ineffective, there
    was nothing I could do about it.


    -------------------------------------------
    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon



  • 6.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2013 21:40
    Thanks, Zeno. Unfortunately, once I got to the message box I found no buttons at all, just a box into which one could type a message. This is my iPad. I'll try the desktop. ------------------------------------------- Doug Garman Piano Technician Arlington TX 817-578-4796 -------------------------------------------


  • 7.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-26-2013 13:52
    Hello, all. So glad my son, Steve, is home from NEC for a few weeks. He helped me get the pictures from Ted's class into Dropbox. Below is the link that will take you there. I hope these photos, along with some of the class notes provided by others, will be of some help. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y9aamxt722h6288/nzixaNfpKE ------------------------------------------- Doug Garman Piano Technician Arlington TX 817-578-4796 -------------------------------------------


  • 8.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Posted 08-26-2013 14:37
    Thanks, Doug! Very helpful. It looks like everyone had a great time. So many new ideas.

    I don't suppose anyone filmed it?

    -------------------------------------------
    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon



  • 9.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Posted 08-26-2013 20:19
    WARNING! about the picture with the carpenter's hammer tapping the string!
    That was meant as a sort of joke!
    Don't try it at home.


    -------------------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    Editor
    Piano Technicians Journal
    ed440@me.com
    704-536-7926

    -------------------------------------------








  • 10.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2013 16:36
    Hi Doug,
    Suppose I start by giving the report I had planned, with the photos I have (only of the sanding paddles), and you can supplement with other details and photos. 

    Ted's basic idea is that we should be able to do a quality upright hammer filing job on site, rather than take the action back to the shop. The first problem is to hold the action securely in place. This he does by using something extending from the action bolts: he showed the Schaff telescoping brackets (aluminum), but prefers his own home made ones, of which he showed versions in brass and wood. I'll describe the wooden ones. 

    A strip of wood about 1/4" x 3/4" x 8". Attached to each end is a sort of home made flange, about 1/4" x 3/4" x 1 1/2" with a 1/4" cutout. The "flanges" are attached to the longer strip by a finishing nail: drill a hole slightly undersized, drive in the nail, clip off the end. The flanges have a hole drilled in them. The hole should fit the action bolt fairly snugly, and then it won't even be necessary to secure it with a nut. The other flange will be attached to the action bracket by means of a machine screw (bolt) and a wing nut. 

    Place the bottom of the action brackets on the cheek blocks (padded), and secure the action in place with the devices described above. Now the action is held securely with enough room to work between the strings and the hammers.

    The other main element of Ted's method has to do with using curved sanding paddles. For the straight bored hammers, he uses a gang filing method, doing about 4 hammers at once. The tops are done with a straight paddle, and he makes this efficient by having a paddle with four grits on it: 40, 150, 320, 1000. That paddle is about 2 1/4" x 4 1/2" made from plywood from Lee Valley Tools, I think two thicknesses of 2 mm plywood. There are two grits on each side of the paddle, as you only use a small portion of the paddle to actually sand (the fingers are holding the other half). 

    But the curved paddles are at the heart of Ted's method. For gang filing, he has paddles that have been shaped into a curve by pressing them around a form - he used the liner from his glue pot. Two pieces of 2 mm plywood are cut to size, glue applied, to one side of each, then they are clamped against the glue pot using wood cauls made for the purpose. This creates a nice curved shape that will reach the bottoms of the hammers. With these paddles, only two grits are possible on each, so there is one with 40 and 150, the other with 320 and 1000.

    For the angled hammers, he made individual paddles to reach the top and bottom of the hammer. He cut these out of a piece of wood 1/2" thick, cutting holes 2 1/4" in diameter (the largest Forstner bit he could find). Half of each hole serves as the surface for a piece of sandpaper (the photos will make this clear). There is one "paddle" for each grit. To one side of each paddle he glued a piece of 2 mm plywood, which gives a surface to bear against the side of the hammer while filing it, so it will be easy to keep the paddle surface square to the hammer.

    That is the basic story. There were other details that perhaps Doug will add. Photos attached.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
    -------------------------------------------








  • 11.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Posted 08-23-2013 18:03

    Fred, I believe you have misunderstood something in Ted's approach.
    He modifies Schaff post extension #297, p. 69, by shortening it considerably, to about 5 or 6 inches, unextended. (His brass and wood brackets serve the same purpose.)
    Then, he does not lift and remove the action from the keybed support posts, he just tilts it forward and secures it with the short bracket extenders.
    He does not place the action feet on the cheek blocks as the unmodified Schaff post extender require, as the catalog reads.
    Thus he avoids the strain of lifting and replacing the action, and secures it better as the bottom cups remain on their support posts.
    I believe this makes his method considerably easier and safer for weary shoulders, which don't want to be lifting vertical actions back and forth to test for hammer voicing, and reduces the risk of damper damage to virtually zero. This enables him to voice and test the hammers as you would by sliding a grand action in and out of the piano.
    I'm attaching 2 photos from the class screen.
    -------------------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    Editor
    Piano Technicians Journal
    ed440@me.com
    704-536-7926

    -------------------------------------------








  • 12.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Posted 08-23-2013 21:58
    This is Ted all over!!

    Thanks so much, Ed Sutton and Fred Sturm!

    Delightful. I hope I get to see the class some day.

    Speaking of ideas to overcome some of the ravages of age, I've thought of something I'm going to build, so I can get grand actions and keys into the house without danger to them or me. Taking one in on a hand truck, having slid it on a board from the hatch of the car, and then up two steps into the house, is just too hard and feels too risky these days, though I've done it that way for many years. Dismantling it first is a pain, and it takes up too much room in the car as parts, even with the keys in clamps. I have a Prius C these days -- neat little thing, but less room. It gives me about 50 mpg in return, though, and sometimes a little more on summer gas.

    First, I'm going to weatherize the garage by putting insulation into the attic, and by adding a small oil-filled electric radiator in the winter, and building an air conditioner into the side window for our rare summer hot days.

    Then, I'm going to build a little cart -- just bought the casters, similar to those on a moving dolly -- which will be exactly the same height as the car's cargo area with the seats folded down.

    Back up to the garage door, open it and the hatch, roll up the cart, and just slide the action and keys onto it. Roll it inside, close the garage door. In inclement weather (very hot or very cold), take it apart in the garage and bring it into the house piecemeal. Reverse the procedure to take it back to a customer's. In gentler times of year, do the work in the garage, some of it right on the cart. I wonder why it took me this long to think the idea through.

    -------------------------------------------
    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon



  • 13.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Posted 08-23-2013 23:44
    Susan- How high does it need to go to get the action into your car? ------------------------------------------- Ed Sutton Editor Piano Technicians Journal ed440@me.com 704-536-7926 -------------------------------------------


  • 14.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Posted 08-24-2013 03:15

    Hi, Ed

    24" high will do it. A little low for a work bench, but one could sit down at it, using a computer chair with wheels.I'd need brakes on the cart wheels, of course, so it wouldn't keep slithering away from me.

    I've also thought of how to change the height. For instance, it's a pain leaning way over to see capstan holes. Of course a wheeled chair with adjustable height would help some.

    Suppose I put bench dogs on the left end of the cart, and a good strong handle on the other end? Then I could build a shallow ramp up to a platform, with divots for the wheels to settle into. Take it up and down at will, without ever having to simply lift it.

    -------------------------------------------
    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon



  • 15.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-24-2013 19:29
    My memory could be faulty, but I thought I heard him talk about being sure you had something to protect the finish of the cheeks. Maybe the first thing to try is just leaning back, and if that doesn't work you lift each side and place it on whatever there is to place it on, padding as needed. In any case, the point is to be supporting the action within the piano cavity, but with the hammers held out far enough that you can get access to the undersides with those curved paddles.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
    -------------------------------------------








  • 16.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Posted 08-24-2013 20:10
    Take a look at the picture. ------------------------------------------- Ed Sutton Editor Piano Technicians Journal ed440@me.com 704-536-7926 -------------------------------------------


  • 17.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-25-2013 15:06
    I did look at the picture. I guess it shows somewhat of an angle of the action leaning back, perhaps, but that could be deceptive. Is that what you mean? The photo you posted doesn't show the base of the action brackets. I still believe I have the memory of Ted's voice talking about a pad under the foot of the bracket if it is brought out to rest on the cheek. Could be a phantom memory, I suppose.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
    -------------------------------------------








  • 18.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Posted 08-26-2013 14:23


    -------------------------------------------
    Roger Lilly
    Battle Ground WA
    -------------------------------------------
    Not having been there to see the demonstration, I may be missing something, but the first thing that comes to mind regarding shaping the hammers with the action still in the piano is - what about all the dust created?  When I shape hammers, there is a great deal of dust created.  The thought of all that dust being created over the piano action while resting on the piano in a customers house gives me pause.

    On my work bench in my shop, I can easily vacuum up the mess and blow out the remaining dust with compressed air.  In the customers house - ???

    Do any of you have a problem with this?

    Thanks,
    Roger







  • 19.  RE:Ted Sambell's Upright Hammer Shaping Class in Chicago

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-26-2013 23:04
    I agree about the dust. Ted just said to vacuum it out.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
    -------------------------------------------