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Yamaha CP70

  • 1.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-20-2007 15:07 
    From "Leslie Bartlett" <l-bartlett@sbcglobal.net>

I'm scheduled to tune a Yamaha CP70 in a week. I've never seen one of these
things. I'll have an hour and a half, and it's supposed to be a "clean up"
tuning.   Can anyone give me any info on these things?
les bartlett
houston


  • 2.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-20-2007 15:39 
    From John Ross <jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca>

Yamaha CP70Make sure they leave you a small amp.
There is a table in the CP70 book, if you have an ETD.
 I can't find mine, or I would scan and send you a copy.
John M. Ross
Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada
jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca
  
    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 3.  Yamaha CP70

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-20-2007 16:00 
    From David Doremus <algiers_piano@bellsouth.net>

My last stage experience, several years ago for Frankie Beverly, was 
that you could not depend on an ETD for the bass, you just had to find 
the spot that sounded the least bad. I tried one time with an accutuner 
and it was OK in the plain wire but the wound strings did not sound 
right at all. Tests can be hard to hear depending how they have it 
amped, if its running through a monitor you may have to move things 
around for best audio. Any one need a set of bass strings for  CP70B? I 
had someone ask for a set and then leave town, lesson: get the $$$$ up 
front.

-Dave
New Orleans




John Ross wrote:
> *Make sure they leave you a small amp.*
> *There is a table in the CP70 book, if you have an ETD.*
> * I can't find mine, or I would scan and send you a copy.*
> John M. Ross
> Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada
> jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca <mailto:jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca>
>
>     
    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 4.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-20-2007 16:48 
    From "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>

My experience with these nifty little electric pianos parallels yours 
exactly Dave. SAT works for plain strings and make bass least bad by ear. I 
didn't have an amp available when I did one - fortunately it was in a guy's 
house and it was quiet.

At least you can pack this one up and get it to high ground when the water 
comes! (Handy for New Orleans......)

Terry Farrell


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 5.  Yamaha CP70

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-20-2007 17:19 
    From David Doremus <algiers_piano@bellsouth.net>

Farrell wrote:
> At least you can pack this one up and get it to high ground when the 
> water comes! (Handy for New Orleans......)
>
Terry, you are so right. I actually just bought a lap top ( I was due a 
new machine anyway after 8 years of my old G3) for that very reason. I 
may have to give up piano work and start on accordians :-)  Actually, 
the CP70 was not a bad idea, just a little out of style now but Herbie 
Hancock and others did some very nice things with it at the time. 
Speaking of old keyboards Id like to find a working Hohner clavinet, 
just for nostalgias sake, I guess with 50 approaching I'm starting to 
hark back to my youth...

--Dave
New Orleans


  • 6.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-20-2007 17:54 
    From "Leslie Bartlett" <l-bartlett@sbcglobal.net>

I tuned some "electric grand" by Yamaha which looked to be twenty years old
or some such, and it was a ghastly untuneable little thing. Inharmonicity
was so horrible it was virtually untuneable.  Is this just the grandchild of
same?
thanks
les bartlett 


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 7.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-20-2007 19:00 
    From "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>

Your description sounds spot-on!  :-(

Terry Farrell


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 8.  Yamaha CP70

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-20-2007 21:41 
    From Don <pianotuna@accesscomm.ca>

Hi Les,

Nope, not a grand child. Yamaha doesn't make them any more.

At 06:53 PM 5/20/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>I tuned some "electric grand" by Yamaha which looked to be twenty years old
>or some such, and it was a ghastly untuneable little thing. Inharmonicity
>was so horrible it was virtually untuneable.  Is this just the grandchild of
>same?
>thanks
>les bartlett 
>
>
    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 9.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-20-2007 18:53 
    From Jon Page <jonpage@comcast.net>

Are these the wretched beasts that I tried to tune
aurally back in the 80's?  It pains me to recall.

Worse than the piano was the owners who thought
they only needed tuning infrequently and when a
major pitch correction was needed... what!?....
this is not an acoustic piano.

As if being electric had some magical quality to stay in tune.
But naive me didn't think about plate compression, since no
sounding board...    Of course I didn't want to spend too much
time on them... still brings a shutter.

Ah to be young and foolish once again.  But keep those things far, far away.
-- 

Regards,

Jon Page


  • 10.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-20-2007 23:38 
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>

> Are these the wretched beasts that I tried to tune
> aurally back in the 80's?  It pains me to recall.

That's them. You'll be gratified to know they haven't aged 
beneficially.


> Worse than the piano was the owners who thought
> they only needed tuning infrequently and when a
> major pitch correction was needed... what!?....
> this is not an acoustic piano.

Perspective police: You can go over them twice and pull them 
up from way down in under 45 minutes, leaving them no worst 
off than if you'd spent three days trying to tune them 
perfectly. They have the same bridge and pinblock 
configuration of an out of tune acoustic instrument, and since 
the soundboard seems to have little to do with pianos (or 
pretenders) going out of tune, there's little reason to 
presume they'll be more stable.


> As if being electric had some magical quality to stay in tune.
> But naive me didn't think about plate compression, since no
> sounding board...    Of course I didn't want to spend too much
> time on them... still brings a shutter.
> 
> Ah to be young and foolish once again.  But keep those things far, far 
> away.

While I can't claim young any more, I can still reserve 
foolish. What does plate compression have to do with pianos 
going out of tune?

Ron N


  • 11.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-20-2007 23:45 
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>

> They have the same bridge and 
> pinblock configuration of an out of tune acoustic instrument, and since 
> the soundboard seems to have little to do with pianos (or pretenders) 
> going out of tune, there's little reason to presume they'll be more stable.

Sorry, I misspoke. Not the same bridge configuration. Bed 
time, apparently...

Ron N


  • 12.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-21-2007 09:16 
    From william ballard <yardbird@vermontel.net>

On May 20, 2007, at 8:52 PM, Jon Page wrote:
> Are these the wretched beasts that I tried to tune
> aurally back in the 80's?  It pains me to recall.

As I remember, when setting the initial ladder of a 3ds/6ths  
temperament, the C#3-F3 M3d had the same beat rate as the C#4-F4 3d.  
Actually achieving the flat slope of M3ds beat rates which the  
Baldwin 243 vertical only dreamed of. I also remember tuning the  
acoustically (no external speaker).

Mr. Bill


  • 13.  Yamaha CP70

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-21-2007 16:38 
    From David Doremus <algiers_piano@bellsouth.net>

william ballard wrote:
>
> As I remember, when setting the initial ladder of a 3ds/6ths 
> temperament, the C#3-F3 M3d had the same beat rate as the C#4-F4 3d. 
> Actually achieving the flat slope of M3ds beat rates which the Baldwin 
> 243 vertical only dreamed of. I also remember tuning the acoustically 
> (no external speaker).
I think you are right about the 3ds, amazing what modern innovation can 
produce. Tuning acoustically works as well as anything in someones 
house, onstage with all the usual commotion not so easy to hear. I still 
have a set of bass strings going begging, what no takers? Im shocked, 
shocked....

--Dave
New Orleans


  • 14.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-21-2007 21:19 
    From "Leslie Bartlett" <l-bartlett@sbcglobal.net>

So, if I tune this sucker Aurally, how do I go about it?  I have done such
with computer and it is virtually untuneable.
les bartlett 


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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  • 15.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-21-2007 21:42 
    From Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>

> So, if I tune this sucker Aurally, how do I go about it?  

Quickly. Three days' worth will be indistinguishable from 30 
minutes' worth, on a practical scale. Least bad, minimum 
garbage, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. Lag, 
trim, average, blend. It ain't tuning, it's painting. Use the 
roller.


>I have done such
> with computer and it is virtually untuneable.
> les bartlett 

It is indeed, virtually untunable, so give it what it'll take, 
and go home. You can't interpolate beyond the resolution of 
the media.

Accept it, grasshopper.
Ron N


  • 16.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-20-2007 19:37 
    From "Kerry Cooper" <brispiano@optushome.com.au>

Les,

 

I have attached the tuning graph for the CP70B. There were two models, the
CP70 & the CP70B. the difference was the scaling and the 'B' had the
transformer as part of the power cord. These instruments should always be
tuned with an amp, as the pick-ups hear a different harmonic. I tuned the
first one in Australia and had been looking after many CP70Bs and CP80s
until the digital pianos took over. They can be tuned successfully by ear,
however the octaves must be expanded quite a lot. They are known to break
the covered strings on a regular basis, and I stocked many replacement
strings for such pianos.

 

Best of luck.

 

Kerry Cooper ARPT

Brisbane Piano Centre

ph:    +617-3809-0652

Fax:  +617-3809-4699

email: brispiano@optushome.com.au

 

  _____  

From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Leslie Bartlett
Sent: Monday, 21 May 2007 7:07 AM
To: pianotech@ptg.org
Subject: Yamaha CP70

 

I'm scheduled to tune a Yamaha CP70 in a week. I've never seen one of these
things. I'll have an hour and a half, and it's supposed to be a "clean up"
tuning.   Can anyone give me any info on these things?

les bartlett 
houston


  • 17.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-21-2007 00:54 
    From "Gregor _" <karlkaputt@hotmail.com>

>From: Ron Nossaman

>since the soundboard seems to have little to do with pianos (or pretenders) 
>going out of tune, there's little reason to presume they'll be more stable.
>


I don?t know why, but the CP 70 has an unbelieveable stability of tuning. I 
owned one for several years and made a lot of gigs on stage with that. Nice 
instrument to have and play, but horrible to tune in the bass. Just accept 
that the bass is not really tunable.

Gregor

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  • 18.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-21-2007 06:32 
    From Jon Page <jonpage@comcast.net>

>What does plate compression have to do with pianos going out of tune?

I was referring to a large pitch change. The 'musician' in question told
everyone I was a conscientious tuner because I retuned (gratis) the piano
a week later after 'tuning' it not-so-well.

At the time I was under the impression that sound board deflection resulting
from the increased tension was what caused instability on a pitch correction.
SO without a sound board... no deflection...  hence no problem...
The guy was such a jerk that I never bothered to explain pitch change 
instability.
That was a live and learn situation.

That was the last time I ever placed a tuning hammer to one,
next one will be a sledge hammer.

Now I explain the instability of pitch correction multiple times to a customer
but it still seems to cause their eyes to glaze over.
-- 

Regards,

Jon Page


  • 19.  Yamaha CP70

    Posted 05-21-2007 15:46 
    From "Avery Todd" <ptuner1@gmail.com>

Les,

I tuned one many years ago when I was in Biloxi/Gulfport. I agree with what
others have said. Good luck on the bass. Just get it as best you can and
leave it and hope they have a real bass player so the pianist doesn't have
to play those notes very often. Thankfully this one was for a band I tuned
for and he actually had a bass player! And that was back when I was still
tuning totally aurally! :-) The bottom line is that the wrapped strings are
impossible to tune "normally"!

Best of luck!

Avery


On 5/20/07, Leslie Bartlett <l-bartlett@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>  I'm scheduled to tune a Yamaha CP70 in a week. I've never seen one of
> these things. I'll have an hour and a half, and it's supposed to be a "clean
> up" tuning.   Can anyone give me any info on these things?
>
> les bartlett
> houston
>


  • 20.  Yamaha CP70

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-22-2007 01:23 
    From "Jim Johnson" <jhjpiano@sbcglobal.net>

Yamaha CP70Just to give a different opinion, I always enjoyed working on the CP70 and the CP80 pianos and the were fun to play.  They have a very unique electronic sound quality (like a FenderRhodes piano on steroids) and a grand action.  The bass was a little hard to tune, but the pianos held their tuning very well, even after being transported from place to place.  I used to tune one regularly for Tom Coster, the keyboard man for Santana back in the 70's.  I wouldn't mind having one now.  Since they are usually located in bars, nightclubs and Rock venues, I used to use headphones for tuning so that I could hear over all the background noise.  I still have the service manuals if you need any technical information.
Jim Johnson (40 years in PTG coming up next year)
  
    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
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