Pianotech

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

Original Message------

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

Original Message------

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

Total agreement.

I would say: "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I thought I could help you out in this instance but it is realistically impossible to repair it. Unfortunately I cannot honestly recommend that you do anything at all to it. There's nothing I can do, so here's the money back and we'll just call it 'college'. Perhaps though I can help you locate another piano..."

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 21:00
From: Gary Bruce
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Been there done that (just been a few decades).  Chris made a good suggestion about transparency.  You might be surprised.  Email me your mailing address and I'll send you what I can.  I have lots of used parts and some new that I inherited that I'll pass along if you'll do the same for someone else someday.

Gary Bruce
Registered Piano Technician

CLICK HERE to schedule your next piano tuning.

405-285-8324 (store)

405-413-8863 (cell)
BruceMusicStore.com

We would love for you to connect with us!

Original Message------

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

"I would say: "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I thought I could help you out in this instance but it is realistically impossible to repair it. Unfortunately I cannot honestly recommend that you do anything at all to it. There's nothing I can do, so here's the money back and we'll just call it 'college'. Perhaps though I can help you locate another piano...""

Pwg

Yes, I'm on board here too. Maybe at this point it's a done deal, but this is a ton to "eat".

------------------------------
"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
www.thattuningguy.com
Tunic OnlyPure & TuneLab user
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 21:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Total agreement.

I would say: "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I thought I could help you out in this instance but it is realistically impossible to repair it. Unfortunately I cannot honestly recommend that you do anything at all to it. There's nothing I can do, so here's the money back and we'll just call it 'college'. Perhaps though I can help you locate another piano..."

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 21:00
From: Gary Bruce
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Been there done that (just been a few decades).  Chris made a good suggestion about transparency.  You might be surprised.  Email me your mailing address and I'll send you what I can.  I have lots of used parts and some new that I inherited that I'll pass along if you'll do the same for someone else someday.

Gary Bruce
Registered Piano Technician

CLICK HERE to schedule your next piano tuning.

405-285-8324 (store)

405-413-8863 (cell)
BruceMusicStore.com

We would love for you to connect with us!

Original Message------

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

Patrick,

I concur entirely with Chris. In a situation like this there are going to be major problems, simply because of the type of material originally used. Those old plastic parts don't last more than several decades at best, and most likely they will all break when something brushes against them. 

You shouldn't feel obligated to replace these of your own money! You weren't the problem; you were the discoverer. The problem is with the piano's initial design. 

As Chris said, one option is to give back the money and tell her the truth about the piano's condition. The other is to report the problem in its fullest condition, while keeping your fee. This is probably what I'd do, unless you specifically promised that $X would fix the problem. She will either pay for the parts herself, which you'll be glad for, or she won't, or she'll replace the piano. In any case, I guarantee she will be glad that you were honest and upfront with her. 

In any case, honesty should be your only policy, not just the best one.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez
Professional Piano Services
(805)315-8050
www.professional-piano-services.com
BenPianoPro@comcast.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 20:49
From: Patrick Greene
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

I suspect it also has the same plastic on the back check catchers. Less than a total action replacement is troublesome. If by Herculean effort you get everything working without breaking any more, you'll get a call next week that it's still not fixed because something else broke. I'd refund any money paid.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 22:06
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Patrick,

I concur entirely with Chris. In a situation like this there are going to be major problems, simply because of the type of material originally used. Those old plastic parts don't last more than several decades at best, and most likely they will all break when something brushes against them.

You shouldn't feel obligated to replace these of your own money! You weren't the problem; you were the discoverer. The problem is with the piano's initial design.

As Chris said, one option is to give back the money and tell her the truth about the piano's condition. The other is to report the problem in its fullest condition, while keeping your fee. This is probably what I'd do, unless you specifically promised that $X would fix the problem. She will either pay for the parts herself, which you'll be glad for, or she won't, or she'll replace the piano. In any case, I guarantee she will be glad that you were honest and upfront with her.

In any case, honesty should be your only policy, not just the best one.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez
Professional Piano Services
(805)315-8050
www.professional-piano-services.com
BenPianoPro@comcast.net

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 20:49
From: Patrick Greene
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

I once was in your shoes, identical situation. I ate the job. Lesson learned, I solemnly swore if I ever came across another action with plastic parts, I would refuse to work on it, or else every plastic part in it would be replaced and charged for. I have kept that vow more than 20 years.
Unfortunately, the action on Janssen pianos isn't the only thing that needs replacement. More like, the whole thing.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


Original Message------

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

I agree, anything with "Janssen" on it is trouble, a work black hole without any acceptable destination.

I think, in this situation, that I'd explain that finding a different piano would be far more rewarding than trying to fix this one, refund any money paid, and work with her to locate something she might like to own. The market is so soft these days it shouldn't be at all hard to find something better than a Janssen with plastic parts for almost nothing except the moving costs.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 00:08
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Jansen console action help..

I once was in your shoes, identical situation. I ate the job. Lesson learned, I solemnly swore if I ever came across another action with plastic parts, I would refuse to work on it, or else every plastic part in it would be replaced and charged for. I have kept that vow more than 20 years.
Unfortunately, the action on Janssen pianos isn't the only thing that needs replacement. More like, the whole thing.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


Original Message------

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

 I feel your pain. For the time and pain and unknown outcome it may be better to retire the piano. I am fairly certain this is the same brand and model I encountered here. The lady complained about some non working keys which I thought in advance could just be broken elbows . After a closer exam I found the action was loaded with plastic , jacks , flanges etc. The stuff was like peanut brittle and crumbled. I priced out what it would cost for parts and labor and it exceeded the cost of a new, well built console. I later found someone who said he has swapped out whole actions taken out of other pianos . If you want to pm I will give you the details. As I recall the pedal rods where on the outside of the case in front of the bottom board . Gorgeous wood

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 20:49
From: Patrick Greene
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

About three or four years ago I was called to a Chickering (40's or early 50's). I opened it up and found the plastic (which was why a note was not working). I called her over and explained the situation and why it made no economic sense to try to repair it. She understood (bummer too because the rest of the piano was quite good).

She wanted a Chickering though and found a good one for $800.00. A little reconditioning and a humidity control system and she's happy as a clam.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 09:53
From: James Kelly
Subject: Jansen console action help..


 I feel your pain. For the time and pain and unknown outcome it may be better to retire the piano. I am fairly certain this is the same brand and model I encountered here. The lady complained about some non working keys which I thought in advance could just be broken elbows . After a closer exam I found the action was loaded with plastic , jacks , flanges etc. The stuff was like peanut brittle and crumbled. I priced out what it would cost for parts and labor and it exceeded the cost of a new, well built console. I later found someone who said he has swapped out whole actions taken out of other pianos . If you want to pm I will give you the details. As I recall the pedal rods where on the outside of the case in front of the bottom board . Gorgeous wood

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 20:49
From: Patrick Greene
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

The piano I was thinking about was an Ivers & Pond not a Janssen. I have seen some very good Jannsens and if I am not mistaken it was the same company Charles Walter had something to do with. Its one thing if its just elbows involved but if you have flanges, jacks, damper blocks with the same type of brittle plastic it is a disaster. Even if you could find good spare parts the amount of labor involved would be staggering. Its tough to pronounce a piano dead but perhaps you can assist in finding a good replacement and tune it for free.

I checked the Pierce Atlas and found that Chas and Barbara Walter bought Jannsen in 1970. At the end of 2016 I helped a family get a good grand piano for the price of the move and their Jannsen was repurposed to a family that needed a piano. It was in good condition which is not so bad considering some of the harsh humidity we have here on the coast.

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 09:53
From: James Kelly
Subject: Jansen console action help..


 I feel your pain. For the time and pain and unknown outcome it may be better to retire the piano. I am fairly certain this is the same brand and model I encountered here. The lady complained about some non working keys which I thought in advance could just be broken elbows . After a closer exam I found the action was loaded with plastic , jacks , flanges etc. The stuff was like peanut brittle and crumbled. I priced out what it would cost for parts and labor and it exceeded the cost of a new, well built console. I later found someone who said he has swapped out whole actions taken out of other pianos . If you want to pm I will give you the details. As I recall the pedal rods where on the outside of the case in front of the bottom board . Gorgeous wood

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 20:49
From: Patrick Greene
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

So, if the Walters bought Janssen in 1970, those Janssens which are decent pianos probably date from after that. I haven't seen any from that late.

They should have saved their money! The brand already has suffered such blows to its reputation that they would have been better off with any random name.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 21:03
From: James Kelly
Subject: Jansen console action help..

The piano I was thinking about was an Ivers & Pond not a Janssen. I have seen some very good Jannsens and if I am not mistaken it was the same company Charles Walter had something to do with. Its one thing if its just elbows involved but if you have flanges, jacks, damper blocks with the same type of brittle plastic it is a disaster. Even if you could find good spare parts the amount of labor involved would be staggering. Its tough to pronounce a piano dead but perhaps you can assist in finding a good replacement and tune it for free.

I checked the Pierce Atlas and found that Chas and Barbara Walter bought Jannsen in 1970. At the end of 2016 I helped a family get a good grand piano for the price of the move and their Jannsen was repurposed to a family that needed a piano. It was in good condition which is not so bad considering some of the harsh humidity we have here on the coast.

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 09:53
From: James Kelly
Subject: Jansen console action help..


 I feel your pain. For the time and pain and unknown outcome it may be better to retire the piano. I am fairly certain this is the same brand and model I encountered here. The lady complained about some non working keys which I thought in advance could just be broken elbows . After a closer exam I found the action was loaded with plastic , jacks , flanges etc. The stuff was like peanut brittle and crumbled. I priced out what it would cost for parts and labor and it exceeded the cost of a new, well built console. I later found someone who said he has swapped out whole actions taken out of other pianos . If you want to pm I will give you the details. As I recall the pedal rods where on the outside of the case in front of the bottom board . Gorgeous wood

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 20:49
From: Patrick Greene
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

Hello again

I took you all's advice and called the customer.  I told them I would refund the fee and help them find a decent piano (would look at up to 2 of whatever they find for free and also give them a free tuning).  They were very understanding, but felt like they wanted to restore this piano action because of the sentimental value of the piano. They want to keep the piano in the family because the mother bought it new in 1948 and she is now 95.  I told them it would take me a month to do it (I work at another job during the day) and would be cost prohibitive.  

I hope I have discouraged them, but they want to call me back and let me know what they decide.  I really appreciate you all taking the time to give me your feedback.

Thanks!
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
Associate
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 09:53
From: James Kelly
Subject: Jansen console action help..


 I feel your pain. For the time and pain and unknown outcome it may be better to retire the piano. I am fairly certain this is the same brand and model I encountered here. The lady complained about some non working keys which I thought in advance could just be broken elbows . After a closer exam I found the action was loaded with plastic , jacks , flanges etc. The stuff was like peanut brittle and crumbled. I priced out what it would cost for parts and labor and it exceeded the cost of a new, well built console. I later found someone who said he has swapped out whole actions taken out of other pianos . If you want to pm I will give you the details. As I recall the pedal rods where on the outside of the case in front of the bottom board . Gorgeous wood

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 20:49
From: Patrick Greene
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

You've done right by them. If they are willing to pay you adequately for a ton of time and a lot of parts, and you do a decent job of the replacement, which includes tons of spacing, traveling, and regulating, it'll be good experience for you, and they'll have a less than usually horrid Janssen, which is saying a lot.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-31-2017 21:36
From: Patrick Greene
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Hello again

I took you all's advice and called the customer.  I told them I would refund the fee and help them find a decent piano (would look at up to 2 of whatever they find for free and also give them a free tuning).  They were very understanding, but felt like they wanted to restore this piano action because of the sentimental value of the piano. They want to keep the piano in the family because the mother bought it new in 1948 and she is now 95.  I told them it would take me a month to do it (I work at another job during the day) and would be cost prohibitive.

I hope I have discouraged them, but they want to call me back and let me know what they decide.  I really appreciate you all taking the time to give me your feedback.

Thanks!
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
Associate
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 09:53
From: James Kelly
Subject: Jansen console action help..


 I feel your pain. For the time and pain and unknown outcome it may be better to retire the piano. I am fairly certain this is the same brand and model I encountered here. The lady complained about some non working keys which I thought in advance could just be broken elbows . After a closer exam I found the action was loaded with plastic , jacks , flanges etc. The stuff was like peanut brittle and crumbled. I priced out what it would cost for parts and labor and it exceeded the cost of a new, well built console. I later found someone who said he has swapped out whole actions taken out of other pianos . If you want to pm I will give you the details. As I recall the pedal rods where on the outside of the case in front of the bottom board . Gorgeous wood

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 20:49
From: Patrick Greene
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

Parts are one thing. That a close look at it structurally. Remove the covering on the top and inspect the joint between the block and back. Place it on a tilter and check the bottom as well. Parts aside, my bet is structural failure. They crush cars you know...

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-31-2017 21:36
From: Patrick Greene
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Hello again

I took you all's advice and called the customer.  I told them I would refund the fee and help them find a decent piano (would look at up to 2 of whatever they find for free and also give them a free tuning).  They were very understanding, but felt like they wanted to restore this piano action because of the sentimental value of the piano. They want to keep the piano in the family because the mother bought it new in 1948 and she is now 95.  I told them it would take me a month to do it (I work at another job during the day) and would be cost prohibitive.

I hope I have discouraged them, but they want to call me back and let me know what they decide.  I really appreciate you all taking the time to give me your feedback.

Thanks!
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
Associate
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 09:53
From: James Kelly
Subject: Jansen console action help..


 I feel your pain. For the time and pain and unknown outcome it may be better to retire the piano. I am fairly certain this is the same brand and model I encountered here. The lady complained about some non working keys which I thought in advance could just be broken elbows . After a closer exam I found the action was loaded with plastic , jacks , flanges etc. The stuff was like peanut brittle and crumbled. I priced out what it would cost for parts and labor and it exceeded the cost of a new, well built console. I later found someone who said he has swapped out whole actions taken out of other pianos . If you want to pm I will give you the details. As I recall the pedal rods where on the outside of the case in front of the bottom board . Gorgeous wood

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 20:49
From: Patrick Greene
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Hello

So I try to fix a few flanges for an older lady who owns a 40's Jansen piano.  As I get into the action, I notice several plastic jacks that are broken as well and also broken damper flanges (plastic).  I have some wooden replacement flanges and jacks, so I use those to replace the broken ones.  As I install them back into the action, I brush against the next wippen and shatter that jack and so on.

I stupidly charged a small amount of money trying to help this person out thinking it would be an easy job, so I can't really go back and say "oh, by the way, that will be an extra $700 to replace all the jacks and flanges".  I am going to have to bite the bullet on this one, but I cannot afford the  materials to replace everything with new flanges/jacks/dampers flanges

All this being said.  Do any of you all have a couple hundred used flanges you can sell me, along with several damper flanges and replacement jacks?  I have included pictures of the old ones.

I checked with schaff and they say it is their item# 511CJ for the flanges, 3790J for the jacks

Regards,
Patrick

------------------------------
Patrick Greene
OWNER
Knoxville TN
865-384-6582
------------------------------

Janssens are junk. A replacement is in order. You can find something better for free, reconditioning that would be better than throwing money away on a Janssen. When asked to work on one (or two) in the past, I turned it down saying I don't want to waste your money or my time.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Totally agree about Janssen's being junk.

Agree with what others said: either don't charge, or give a refund and move on.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 15:27
From: Jon Page
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Janssens are junk. A replacement is in order. You can find something better for free, reconditioning that would be better than throwing money away on a Janssen. When asked to work on one (or two) in the past, I turned it down saying I don't want to waste your money or my time.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

John,
With all due respect, I do take offense to your statement and not because my name happens to be the same. I do because there are quite some people out there who happen to own a Janssen piano and are as a matter of fact quite happy with it.  
Do you tell your customers who happen to own a Janssen  Piano that what they have is junk  (in your opinion), or do you try to hide your dismay you have towards that brand?  If you were thinking people won't  know how you actually feel about certain brands, think again. Non technicians can read these blogs.  What about Janssen  Piano owners who feel that can not afford to buy another piano, or have fond memories of a Janssen they inherited: to them it may be more valuable than a new large size Steinway grand.  Also, of my well over 1,200 customers, I have approximately  20 Janssen piano owners and only very few of those pianos have plastic action parts.
Peter
Janssen Piano Services

------------------------------
Petrus Janssen
Sharpsburg GA
678-416-8055
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 17:11
From: John Formsma
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Totally agree about Janssen's being junk.

Agree with what others said: either don't charge, or give a refund and move on.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 15:27
From: Jon Page
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Janssens are junk. A replacement is in order. You can find something better for free, reconditioning that would be better than throwing money away on a Janssen. When asked to work on one (or two) in the past, I turned it down saying I don't want to waste your money or my time.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Around here, the cases have separated. The bridges split. Veneer lifting, key tops cracked. I haven't seen a Janssen that should not be in the dump. Maybe in your part of the world some survive. If someone wants to throw money away for sentimental reasons, there's someone who'll be willing to take it; it's just not me.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 17:50
From: Petrus Janssen
Subject: Jansen console action help..

John,
With all due respect, I do take offense to your statement and not because my name happens to be the same. I do because there are quite some people out there who happen to own a Janssen piano and are as a matter of fact quite happy with it.
Do you tell your customers who happen to own a Janssen  Piano that what they have is junk  (in your opinion), or do you try to hide your dismay you have towards that brand?  If you were thinking people won't  know how you actually feel about certain brands, think again. Non technicians can read these blogs.  What about Janssen  Piano owners who feel that can not afford to buy another piano, or have fond memories of a Janssen they inherited: to them it may be more valuable than a new large size Steinway grand.  Also, of my well over 1,200 customers, I have approximately  20 Janssen piano owners and only very few of those pianos have plastic action parts.
Peter
Janssen Piano Services

------------------------------
Petrus Janssen
Sharpsburg GA
678-416-8055

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 17:11
From: John Formsma
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Totally agree about Janssen's being junk.

Agree with what others said: either don't charge, or give a refund and move on.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 15:27
From: Jon Page
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Janssens are junk. A replacement is in order. You can find something better for free, reconditioning that would be better than throwing money away on a Janssen. When asked to work on one (or two) in the past, I turned it down saying I don't want to waste your money or my time.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

No offense intended.

My opinion (and yours, for that matter) doesn't change what they are. I have yet to have seen a good one, but maybe there are some out there.

If my customer asks me about a low-end piano, I tell them my honest opinion. There are many piano shaped objects under various brands, such as Grand, Werlein, Whitney, etc. They are the pianos that sound less bad after tuning.

Best,


------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 17:50
From: Petrus Janssen
Subject: Jansen console action help..

John,
With all due respect, I do take offense to your statement and not because my name happens to be the same. I do because there are quite some people out there who happen to own a Janssen piano and are as a matter of fact quite happy with it.
Do you tell your customers who happen to own a Janssen  Piano that what they have is junk  (in your opinion), or do you try to hide your dismay you have towards that brand?  If you were thinking people won't  know how you actually feel about certain brands, think again. Non technicians can read these blogs.  What about Janssen  Piano owners who feel that can not afford to buy another piano, or have fond memories of a Janssen they inherited: to them it may be more valuable than a new large size Steinway grand.  Also, of my well over 1,200 customers, I have approximately  20 Janssen piano owners and only very few of those pianos have plastic action parts.
Peter
Janssen Piano Services

------------------------------
Petrus Janssen
Sharpsburg GA
678-416-8055

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 17:11
From: John Formsma
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Totally agree about Janssen's being junk.

Agree with what others said: either don't charge, or give a refund and move on.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 15:27
From: Jon Page
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Janssens are junk. A replacement is in order. You can find something better for free, reconditioning that would be better than throwing money away on a Janssen. When asked to work on one (or two) in the past, I turned it down saying I don't want to waste your money or my time.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Well, I guess the ones I have worked on have been well preserved then. Until reading these comments I would never categorically condemn them. I have not seen one with plastic action but that's just my personal experience. Of course I would condemn it on that basis alone if that was the case. 

I agree that you should carefully inspect everything about the piano as mentioned. I have had clients put thousands of dollars into pianos that were IMO better off in the dump and I have tried to talk them out of it. But a sentimental/emotional attachment can cause people to override practical wisdom to a remarkable degree. Is this unwise, or wrong? ABSOLUTELY NOT! In fact it can be a true benefit to their emotional state. As long as they fully understand that from a purely economical standpoint it is not a wise move. 

If they say they want to (and if I were you I would not put a cap on the final cost...just a ballpark estimate), I would ask them repeatedly: "Are you absolutely SURE that you want to do this?  I can find you 2 or 3 pianos (combined) for less than what this is going to cost...etc."

If it's a go, then do your best and get paid for it.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 18:23
From: John Formsma
Subject: Jansen console action help..

No offense intended.

My opinion (and yours, for that matter) doesn't change what they are. I have yet to have seen a good one, but maybe there are some out there.

If my customer asks me about a low-end piano, I tell them my honest opinion. There are many piano shaped objects under various brands, such as Grand, Werlein, Whitney, etc. They are the pianos that sound less bad after tuning.

Best,


------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 17:50
From: Petrus Janssen
Subject: Jansen console action help..

John,
With all due respect, I do take offense to your statement and not because my name happens to be the same. I do because there are quite some people out there who happen to own a Janssen piano and are as a matter of fact quite happy with it.
Do you tell your customers who happen to own a Janssen  Piano that what they have is junk  (in your opinion), or do you try to hide your dismay you have towards that brand?  If you were thinking people won't  know how you actually feel about certain brands, think again. Non technicians can read these blogs.  What about Janssen  Piano owners who feel that can not afford to buy another piano, or have fond memories of a Janssen they inherited: to them it may be more valuable than a new large size Steinway grand.  Also, of my well over 1,200 customers, I have approximately  20 Janssen piano owners and only very few of those pianos have plastic action parts.
Peter
Janssen Piano Services

------------------------------
Petrus Janssen
Sharpsburg GA
678-416-8055

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 17:11
From: John Formsma
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Totally agree about Janssen's being junk.

Agree with what others said: either don't charge, or give a refund and move on.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 15:27
From: Jon Page
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Janssens are junk. A replacement is in order. You can find something better for free, reconditioning that would be better than throwing money away on a Janssen. When asked to work on one (or two) in the past, I turned it down saying I don't want to waste your money or my time.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

There's a 1950s Janssen under my care here, it somehow slithered in via a donor while i was away.  It has a separation between the block and the back that someone fixed up with some bolts - not a bad job except for the few tuning pins too close to a bolt head to get my tuning lever on.  It also has a built in light - a bulb under a plastic insert near the music desk with an electric cord that snakes out through the side.  I'm keeping it in a classroom that develops a leak every few years, since they insist on not fixing the leak AND having a piano in there.

------------------------------
Zeno Wood
Brooklyn, NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-01-2017 08:56
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Well, I guess the ones I have worked on have been well preserved then. Until reading these comments I would never categorically condemn them. I have not seen one with plastic action but that's just my personal experience. Of course I would condemn it on that basis alone if that was the case.

I agree that you should carefully inspect everything about the piano as mentioned. I have had clients put thousands of dollars into pianos that were IMO better off in the dump and I have tried to talk them out of it. But a sentimental/emotional attachment can cause people to override practical wisdom to a remarkable degree. Is this unwise, or wrong? ABSOLUTELY NOT! In fact it can be a true benefit to their emotional state. As long as they fully understand that from a purely economical standpoint it is not a wise move.

If they say they want to (and if I were you I would not put a cap on the final cost...just a ballpark estimate), I would ask them repeatedly: "Are you absolutely SURE that you want to do this?  I can find you 2 or 3 pianos (combined) for less than what this is going to cost...etc."

If it's a go, then do your best and get paid for it.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 18:23
From: John Formsma
Subject: Jansen console action help..

No offense intended.

My opinion (and yours, for that matter) doesn't change what they are. I have yet to have seen a good one, but maybe there are some out there.

If my customer asks me about a low-end piano, I tell them my honest opinion. There are many piano shaped objects under various brands, such as Grand, Werlein, Whitney, etc. They are the pianos that sound less bad after tuning.

Best,


------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 17:50
From: Petrus Janssen
Subject: Jansen console action help..

John,
With all due respect, I do take offense to your statement and not because my name happens to be the same. I do because there are quite some people out there who happen to own a Janssen piano and are as a matter of fact quite happy with it.
Do you tell your customers who happen to own a Janssen  Piano that what they have is junk  (in your opinion), or do you try to hide your dismay you have towards that brand?  If you were thinking people won't  know how you actually feel about certain brands, think again. Non technicians can read these blogs.  What about Janssen  Piano owners who feel that can not afford to buy another piano, or have fond memories of a Janssen they inherited: to them it may be more valuable than a new large size Steinway grand.  Also, of my well over 1,200 customers, I have approximately  20 Janssen piano owners and only very few of those pianos have plastic action parts.
Peter
Janssen Piano Services

------------------------------
Petrus Janssen
Sharpsburg GA
678-416-8055

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 17:11
From: John Formsma
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Totally agree about Janssen's being junk.

Agree with what others said: either don't charge, or give a refund and move on.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 15:27
From: Jon Page
Subject: Jansen console action help..

Janssens are junk. A replacement is in order. You can find something better for free, reconditioning that would be better than throwing money away on a Janssen. When asked to work on one (or two) in the past, I turned it down saying I don't want to waste your money or my time.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page