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What happened to our confidence men?

  • 1.  What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-28-2017 19:08
    Just curious why the thread "Is RPT Testing Producing Confidence Men?" was removed from the forum. Compared with the outright flame throwing that regularly, and predictably happens on the Google Groups Pianotech list, this conversation was still healthy family reading. Sure, it had the potential to escalate, but I think that all of us here, including Mr. Sloane, have always shown incredible courtesy, in fact courtesy to the point of being a little creepy, towards each other in expressing conflicting opinions. Sometimes we may get sidetracked and try to have a little fun, but I've never seen a subject turn into something that required administration. And this particular conversation was still a long way from that. So, why was it removed? Is the forum Admin assuming that we are all so thin skinned here that we need to be protected from conversations that may be a tiny bit less than polite?

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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 2.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-28-2017 19:08
    Geoff, I don't know even though I'm a board member. However I think it was a good move. Discussion like that should have been on PTG-L which is members only. Not on Pianotech which is open to anyone.

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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
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  • 3.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-28-2017 19:08
    Hi Larry,

    I agree. I think it was about time to remove it. If someone wants to criticize something, fine, everyone is welcome to their own opinion. But it was not just criticism. It was a mockery of PTG, of the hard work that RPTs put in to earn that certification, of the examiners and their valuable time, and all open to the public. If Mr. Sloane was truly interested in changing things, he can repost it to PTG-L. But hopefully in a more civilized manner.

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    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
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  • 4.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-28-2017 19:08
    Maybe I missed something important but I thought he said it was all just a joke and that he might have had too much to drink at the time he wrote it.

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 5.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-28-2017 18:55
    I wasn't bothered by it. As for restricting it to PTG-L (the Windy List), one could be of two opinions about that. Non-Guild tuners may have some attitudes toward testing and our two-level status system which we all might be better off hearing -- not that I remember seeing any non-Guild observations in this thread.

    The situation makes me glad that while posts can be removed from the forum website, email once sent is sent and can't be snuffed out after the fact.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 6.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-28-2017 19:08
    Well, to be honest, that discussion was making me a bit uncomfortable. I'm not at all offended that is was removed. On the other hand, I've been a member of an organization that does not allow the expression of opinions other than their own. That makes me even more uncomfortable. We all have intellectual and moral accountability which protects against illegitimate claims to authority. There is value in targeted skepticism.

    Sometimes hard discussions are necessary. This perhaps was one of them. However, I believe this discussion could have been framed in a better way. Nonetheless, I think PTG came out on top on this one. But as my mentor taught me; "You can disagree without being disagreeable." The basic meaning of being reasonable means to yield. I think removing this thread was the reasonable thing to do. 


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    Rick Butler
    Bowie MD
    240 396 7480
    RickRickRickRickRick
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  • 7.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-28-2017 19:08
    I think removing this thread was the reasonable thing to do.

    Content or direction of the thread aside, and to my eyes it was still pretty benign, I think removing it should be considered censorship. However, PTG does own this forum so they have the right to do this. And I'm OK with that. What I find offensive is that it was removed for unknown reasons and without warning that it may have been about to cross some arbitrary line.


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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 8.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-28-2017 19:08
    All, 

    I don't know who made the decision to remove the post, and am guessing at exactly why. Before I go into that, though, I will agree that it is censorship, and that I think it was a good decision. 

    I think (am guessing) that someone marked the post as inappropriate, and the moderator agreed. I agree, too. The post was an irrational broadside against all RPTs, and by extension, PTG. If the writer was drunk when he wrote and posted it, he's nonetheless responsible, and needs time to cool down. You can't convince me that what he said was a joke, even if he apologizes later. 

    Ok, sometimes a writer's issues become entangled in a post. There may even be people here who would have something helpful to offer in such a case. But spewing condemnation of and hostility towards one's colleagues is no way to elicit support, and that kind of behavior need not be tolerated. 

    Maybe there's a place for a psychological counselor on staff, to whom our members can be directed when they are experiencing difficulties they can't cope with. Is that another thread, or this one?

    Mark Schecter
     | |   | | |   | |   | | |   | |   | | |_







  • 9.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Posted 10-28-2017 19:07
    To a large degree, the internet, for all its wonderful possibilities, makes it possible for single voices to create the bogus perception that a singular voice has way way more weight than it actually does in real time. Pull that kind of inflammatory discussion face to face, and you get it in the pusser...fulminate on line,and all of a sudden it looks somehow credible.

    As well, button pushing is a favorite hobby of certain personalities, who's sole interest is getting a hot button response. Again proliferating in this medium.  I hope, somehow the unfettered claims to free speech that button pusher's and trolls now have, will somehow be mitigated by some reasonable corrective mechanism, as carrying the moniker of free speech to its conclusion results in free speech becoming a norm destroying absurdity. Like I said above, in real time pull that behavior and you get it in the teeth, do it on the internet with zero consequences.

    Its the consequences that are missing in this medium, and these missing consequences challenge the credibility of the entire medium. I don't know what the solution is, but in this case, I'm glad the moderator, or whatever we have, made a move.    


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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 10.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Posted 10-28-2017 19:04

    I don't know what the solution is, but in this case, I'm glad the moderator, or whatever we have, made a move.
    Jim Ialeggio,  10-27-2017 15:38
    Yes, nothing is perfect. A moderator(s) is the best you can do. For my part, even though it's not perfect (although I'm not sure what "perfect" looks like), I'm glad the PTG has done it.

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    "That Tuning Guy"
    Scott Kerns
    www.thattuningguy.com
    Tunic OnlyPure & TuneLab user
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  • 11.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-28-2017 19:06
    Well said, Jim.

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    Kent Burnside, RPT
    Franklin TN
    615.430.0653
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  • 12.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Posted 10-28-2017 19:07
    Freedom of speech, nor censoship applies. This is neither a public square or even a public forum. You have to pay a fee to be here. It's more applicable to being in someone's house in which you agree to follow the rules of the house. The conversion could have been interesting if not for becoming thixotrophic.

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    I have a piano in my Nuclear Fallout Shelter, and my competitors don't. How silly is that?

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
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  • 13.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Posted 10-28-2017 19:07

    This is neither a public square or even a public forum. You have to pay a fee to be here.
    Chris Chernobieff,  10-27-2017 17:43
    This forum is free and public. At least I've never paid a fee to be on it and, as far as I know, anyone can look at it.

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    "That Tuning Guy"
    Scott Kerns
    www.thattuningguy.com
    Tunic OnlyPure & TuneLab user
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  • 14.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Posted 10-28-2017 19:06
    I am relatively new here. I only learned of this forum after becoming a member, and since i have to log in every time through the PTG website, i thought it was part of the membership. Don't have to pay!! Good to know. And I will keep that in consideration when the time comes deciding whether to renew or not. 
    #biggerplansintheworks.
    -chris​

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    I have a piano in my Nuclear Fallout Shelter, and my competitors don't. How silly is that?

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
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  • 15.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Posted 10-28-2017 19:06
    Chris,
    Add this bookmark to view all posts to the communities:
    Discussion - Piano Technicians Guild Professional Communities

    Keep yourself signed in at login.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
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  • 16.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-30-2017 16:56
    As far as removing thread, it was laid out in the PTG-L community, in the thread "New button: Mark as Inappropriate" that any user can have a thread removed by simply clicking the Mark as Inappropriate button on the first post of a thread. Then, from what I understand the thread is removed for review by a committee. The safe guard is, the marker must provide the reason the thread is inappropriate. 

    If the committee finds the thread appropriate, then it is returned. If they do judge it inappropriate, then it is permanently removed. At least that's how I perceive it works.

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    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
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  • 17.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-30-2017 18:52
    Hey folks. Can we please get back to discussing pianos, problems with pianos, and solutions we’ve found to problems with pianos and leave the other stuff outside the forum.

    Please don’t continue this thread. It doesn’t belong here or conform to our guidelines.

    Thanx

    "PTG - Expand your horizon - Share the vision"

    George W.R.(Bill) Davis, RPT, SERVP
    The Piano Place GA
    2315 Rocky Mountain Rd NE
    Marietta GA 30066
    (770) 778-6881
    www.pianoplace.net
    Sent from my iPhone




  • 18.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-30-2017 21:50
    Luckily, while they can remove it from the website, they can't permanently remove it from the world. Email is forever.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 19.  RE: What happened to our confidence men?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-28-2017 19:07
    You have to pay a fee to be here? It's the first I've heard of it.

    Now, PTG-L, you do have to pay a fee to take part there.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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