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Soundboard Trim Installation

  • 1.  Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-13-2018 18:05
    I'm getting close to finishing two belly jobs on two Steinway Ls. The only thing I have left to finish is the three trim pieces along the edges of each soundboard - the two up in the high treble and the long one along the straight bass edge.

    The trim pieces are cut and shaped and will get their last coat of finish this evening or tomorrow. Then all I need to do is glue them in after a couple days for the finish to dry.

    My question is the trim pieces - how to clamp them in place. Obviously, the one on the high treble belly rail is self explanatory as it is held in place with screws. But the short quarter-round piece on the treble end of the rim and the long quarter-round piece on the flat bass side rim - how the heck to clamp them in place. I know I can just clamp them like I did the soundboard - but that won't put any pressure on the trim against the outer rim - only on the edge of the soundboard. It probably doesn't really matter as I really do question their functionality, but as long as I'm putting them on there (the customer wants them), I'd like to do it in a way for the trim to provide maximum potential function.

    I've just never used them previously.

    I really want to place clamping pressure on the trim at a 45 degree angle - so that it is clamped to the side of the outer rim and the edge of the soundboard. I can certainly think up elaborate wooden jigs to allow me to do that, but it seems there must be some fairly simple way to do it.

    Any words of wisdom to share?

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-13-2018 18:05
    Oh, and my lovely wife and son say HI! to everyone!

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-13-2018 18:59
    Go-bars.





  • 4.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-13-2018 19:03
    That's the problem with a pneumatic press, takes up space, time to assemble, and limited in function. 
    Go bars can clamp it all.
    -chris





  • 5.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-14-2018 06:21
      |   view attached
    Who said anything about using a pneumatic press? This is a thread about soundboard trim installation. Does someone use a pneumatic press for clamping trim in place?

    That said, I'm guessing you are referring to gluing ribs to a panel. As long as you bring it up, I wouldn't trade my pneumatic presses for a go-bar deck any day. Yes, the go-bars are versatile and store efficiently, but IMHO, the advantage of perfectly even and precisely controllable pressure allowed with a pneumatic press is very much worth any little bit of hassle it may involve.

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-14-2018 09:14
    You misunderstood my point about the pneumatic press. I still use mine for gluing ribs. I just installed a go bar deck about six months ago. So I now use many hybrid gluing set ups for whatever job demands. 
    Frankly I don't see gluing on a rounded moulding as a difficult problem to solve. Since it's a simple butt joint not requiring a lot of pressure, I use a softwood go bar with a lot a flex, it gets sufficient angle and butts the moulding into the corner.





  • 7.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-14-2018 06:05
    Chris suggested go-bars. Yes, I thought of that, but that still puts the pressure something close to straight down. One could get a little bit of angle to it, but not all that much before the bar popped out of place I should think.

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-15-2018 13:43
    Speaking of go-bars, has anyone every heard the origin of that name???
    The best I've heard was that when a job was ready to be clamped it was a
    "go".




  • 9.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-13-2018 19:23
    Terry,

    I am currently at the National Convention. Attended David Hughes' Rebuilders Grab-bag class, in which he shared his solution for this issue. It does involve making a jig, but it's pretty slick, and you can use it on the rest of the pianos from here on out.

    Best,

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-13-2018 23:19
      |   view attached
    Terry,

    How about a couple of these simple blocks, and apply clamp pressure to the block with your usual soundboard clamps.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    funny clamp.pdf   3K 1 version


  • 11.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-13-2018 23:20
    oops that pdf didn't work...I'll try again

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-13-2018 23:22
      |   view attached
    Try this

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    funny clamp.pdf   2K 1 version


  • 13.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-14-2018 07:59
    Hi Jim - I do see where your idea gets the pressure to the middle of the quarter-round trim piece, and I can see where the pressure would indeed be directed at least some toward the outer rim half of the joint. But how would one keep the block you draw from skipping out away from the trim piece? I guess you could cut one or two sticks and maybe jam them between the block and the bridge root to keep it in place. Hmmmm, getting complicated and maybe a little bit iffy. I'll give it some more thought. Thanks.

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-14-2018 09:11
    Terry,

    My son Dave came up with this for the last A we did.  The tendency of the block to tilt towards the trim piece didn't seem to force it to skoot away, as I seem to remember. Though, it is simple enough to bash out of scrap and see if it could work. I agree with not wanting to waste a lot of effort in such a throw away piece of dorky trim.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-14-2018 08:03
    Thanks Alan. Oh boy, now I'm really feeling like a true schmuck! I'm too lazy and too cheap to go to the convention (seriously, my high work load simply would not allow that long a break - and my wife had to be out of town, etc., etc. - really), but still - you know where I'm going with this. Any chance you have a picture or something of David's jig? I have little doubt that David Hughes has come up with a very elegant solution for this!

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-14-2018 08:19
      |   view attached
    Bottom of cauls are angled like Jim's.  The end of the retaining board that you can't see is retained by the end of the long bridge.  FWIW, I don't glue the quarter round in place anymore - I glue felt to both surfaces and screw it in place.

    ------------------------------
    Michael Spalding RPT
    Fredonia WI
    262-692-3943
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-15-2018 06:09
    Thanks for sharing Michael. I see where your design would likely work well and it is fairly simple. David's is one big notch more simple, so I think I'll go that route. Thank you though.

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-14-2018 12:54
      |   view attached
    Found this image of the apparatus that David Hughes uses

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-15-2018 06:05
    Thanks Alan for the picture of David Hughes' jig. I see that it would work perfectly. However, in my case, seeing as I haven't had the need in the past 20 years until now, I don't think I'm going to make a set of those. Does look like the perfect jig though!

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-14-2018 12:01
    Hi Terry, here's a simple solution.  See diagrams below.

    Diagram #1  Cut a bunch of these out of 1" x 1" scrap.  Shape the cove at the end with the end of a belt sander so it basically matches the curve of the quarter round stock (if that's what you're using). These serve as the clamps.  Cut enough to space them about every 6" or so.  You can attach some felt to the coved area if you want.  Cut the tip off, as I've shown, to be sure that you don't bottom out on the soundboard.

    Diagram #2  Place these against inner rim and lightly clamp them to the rim with a C clamp.  Once clamped tap the top end and your clamp so it slides down against the inner rime and will apply pressure to the quarter round and secure it against both the soundboard and the inner rim where you've applied glue.  The C clamp is set tight enough to hold it in place but not so tight that you can't tap your clamp down.  Pretty simple but effective.

    Diagram #1
    Diagram #2
    ​​​​​

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-15-2018 06:08
    David - I think yours in the winner for me. Simple AND effective. I like it! Thank you so much for sharing.

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 07-15-2018 09:32
    BTW you can cut the clamps out of wider stock if you want, 1x4 is nice, which spreads the load a bit better. 


    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Soundboard Trim Installation

    Posted 9 days ago
    Had this situation in an upright. Absolutely no way to clamp the trim. So I just tack nailed it and went back later and plugged the holes.



    ------------------------------
    I don't always play the piano, but when i do, I prefer my own.
    chernobieffpiano.com
    grandpianoman@protonmail.com
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------