This should probably be the subject of a journal article or articles although I have seen it come up from time to time.
I think it would be an excellent session to have at the next National PTG perhaps with other topics such as mold, paris green, rodents and wood boring insects (beetles, termites, carpenter ants).
Input from toxicologists, metallurgists , wood chemists , historical preservationists and the like could be very helpful.
After reading the reference in the thread there seems to be reactions between lead and certain woods as well as other things like vapors even wallpaper .
Lead was commonly used in paints and as a result is a major hazard in stripping old woodwork or demolition work. In many cities
there are high levels of lead in the soil and it is the cause of childhood lead poisoning. Paints and sealers have been developed to help
encapsulate woodwork with lead in the paint. Perhaps this is something we should be doing to prevent crumbling of leads to the point of dangerous powder formation. At the very least we all should know more about how to respond to the situation safely.
I am surprised I have not seen more of this problem here but we are not quite the tropics. Not long ago I tried to repair a par on my washer machine called a spider. This piece on the back of the drum was strong and lightweight but eventually it cracked and crumbled. Welders told me it was a reaction to the detergents, softeners, water. It was not lead but aluminum and like a boat propeller.
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James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-04-2017 00:03
From: Alan Eder
Subject: lead-bloom
Steve wrote:
"...I've seen some other Asian pianos with weights that don't look like lead to me; it's probably something all manufacturers should take up."
If memory serves, I heard somewhere that the use of lead in pianos has been banned in Europe. Can anyone either confirm or disconfirm that?
Alan
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Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-03-2017 21:32
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: lead-bloom
James, over the years I have become more concerned about the lead. Once the corrosion becomes powdery it is light enough to get airborne. It's a quandary when this problem shows up in high quality grands.
Lead bloom or not, what with all the pianos going into landfills these days there must be tons of lead getting buried.
I've been told that Yamaha is using something other than lead in their Avant Grand keys and I've seen some other Asian pianos with weights that don't look like lead to me; it's probably something all manufacturers should take up. But from their standpoint that would probably be asking for trouble.
I became worried enough to have myself tested for lead poisoning, turned out negative, my symptoms turned out to be a case of getting too damned old! lol
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Steven Rosenthal
Honolulu HI
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-03-2017 18:23
From: Willem Blees
Subject: lead-bloom
In my 30 years working on pianos in the Midwest I had one piano with a little bit of lead corrosion. Since moving to Hawaii 10 years ago, I probably see about 8 per year. Most are minor, but I've run across a couple almost as bad as Steve's keyboard. But that one is unusual, even for here.
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Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-03-2017 18:10
From: James Kelly
Subject: lead-bloom
I have seen this on a trade that the dealer I worked for took in. I believe it was an old Wurlitzer grand but in any event the entire keyboard was like a washerboard. I did not disturb the keys and the lead had not yet crumbled or gone to a powder form.
The link to the problem of lead corrosion in ship models is worth the time looking at. I would urge you and any tech to pay attention to the section on the toxicity of lead. The best thing to do is to contact the agency in Hawaii that regulates hazardous waste and materials. This is not something you want to just toss out in the trash . Breathing, handling , touching this stuff is a definite no no. The services of a trained and certified lead remediation company is in everyones best interest.
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James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-28-2017 04:22
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: lead-bloom
Yes, the keys are shattering. Since the keys are frozen I couldn't ascertain the condition of the damper leads, of course they can go south as well.
It's kind of like a slow motion explosion, on this piano over 5-8 years. This is an early Samick, I don't think I've seen this on Samick's before. It's not uncommon on Steinways and Yamaha's here; also Knight's, Story & Clark, and just about every later model Sohmer I've run into. But this one takes the cake.
Here's the only research I've ever found about the condition and it's not totally conclusive.
http://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Warfare-Centers/NSWC-Carderock/Resources/Curator-of-Navy-Ship-Models/Lead-Corrosion-in-Exhibition-Ship-Models/
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Steven Rosenthal
Honolulu HI
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-26-2017 08:56
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: lead-bloom
Holy Hanna! As soon as I saw the title of your thread I have to admit that I thought to myself "well, just wait until this guy sees the pictures of my recent experience with expanding leads" - and it was a relatively case. But I must say that I am thoroughly humbled. That is by FAR the worst case of expanding leads I have ever seen!!! Wow!
I presume the entire keyboard is toast - yes? Cracked keys, etc.?
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Terry Farrell
President
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
813-684-3505
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-25-2017 01:18
From: Steven Rosenthal
Subject: lead-bloom
I thought you folks might like to see a worst case scenario of expanding lead weights. I know most technicians outside of the tropics don't run into this much. The key leads have some sort of chemical reaction and expand over time. As they expand they begin to impinge on the adjacent keys at which point a technician is called in to trim or replace the leads. If not, you can get these dire results; the keys begin to split as well from the pressure. Just getting the action out of the piano can be near impossible.
(hope I got these pics sized correctly)
Contaminated key weight
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Steven Rosenthal
Honolulu HI
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