Pianotech

Yes. Contact mic on soundboard, pocket pre-amp, and noise-cancelling earbuds.  I found the noise-cancelling feature degraded the sound quality and injected noise, probably because they were not the best quality.  Changed to regular earbuds and was much happier.  Either way, it's a rig I use only rarely, when ambient noise and acoustics are otherwise unworkable.  I put the system together for a specific venue, and now don't tune there any more, so it's been years since I used it.

Yes. Contact mic on soundboard, pocket pre-amp, and noise-cancelling earbuds.  I found the noise-cancelling feature degraded the sound quality and injected noise, probably because they were not the best quality.  Changed to regular earbuds and was much happier.  Either way, it's a rig I use only rarely, when ambient noise and acoustics are otherwise unworkable.  I put the system together for a specific venue, and now don't tune there any more, so it's been years since I used it.

I found the setup as described in the Journal a few years ago a lot of gear to carry for a disappointing result. When I asked the person who had recommended it to me, he told me he had stopped using it and gone back to his hearing aids.

I have tried other devices.

At $300 the Soundhawk device is pricey, and the user adjustable settings are not as adaptable as I'd hoped. It has a radio microphone which can be placed in the piano with the lid down and plays through an earpiece, no wires. It helped when I had to tune while 300 people stood around chatting.

With an iPhone, you can use hearing only earbuds, and use the phone as the microphone. Presumbly the same with Androids. You can place the phone where it picks up less ambient noise.

Some free or inexpensive apps include: BioAid, a very adaptable program that offers a range of approximations of programmed hearing aids.

Mimi, a hearing test program that goes beyond the usual online tests. After the 20 minute test there is a hearing assist program which, in my experience, might be useful in piano tuning.

Ryobi Phone works, one of several devices that work through a phone app. Use hearing only buds to use the phone as the microphone. You might be able to download the app without buying Ryobi's earphones.

What I have not been able to find is a simple band pass filter app, which would be very helpful in teaching tuning, something that could be focused to only pick up frequencies in a range near a desired coincident partial. Ideally a touch sensitive keyboard image would allow quick adjustment.

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Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
704-536-7926

I have designed an audio band pass filter that works exactly as you have suggested, Ed.

I use it to demonstrate to students what the beat actually sounds like. Once they know what it sounds like, it seems easier for them to hear it within the unfiltered sound.

It is not meant to be used on the job, although you give me an idea that it could be useful with a bluetooth setup.

I have a Chinese company who has agreed to put it all in one box.

I have thought about making it a digital product, and with HTML5, it would be fairly easy. However, I really enjoy turning the knobs and hearing the frequency response changing in realtime. I can't imagine an app being as responsive, and as much fun.

Here is a video showing how it works with a link to a video showing each component and how to buy them.

Using an MFJ Tunable Audio Filter to help beginners learn to tune a piano by ear.

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Mark Cerisano, RPT
http://howtotunepianos.com

Original Message:
Sent: 01-24-2016 15:25
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: noise cancelling headphones

I found the setup as described in the Journal a few years ago a lot of gear to carry for a disappointing result. When I asked the person who had recommended it to me, he told me he had stopped using it and gone back to his hearing aids.

I have tried other devices.

At $300 the Soundhawk device is pricey, and the user adjustable settings are not as adaptable as I'd hoped. It has a radio microphone which can be placed in the piano with the lid down and plays through an earpiece, no wires. It helped when I had to tune while 300 people stood around chatting.

With an iPhone, you can use hearing only earbuds, and use the phone as the microphone. Presumbly the same with Androids. You can place the phone where it picks up less ambient noise.

Some free or inexpensive apps include: BioAid, a very adaptable program that offers a range of approximations of programmed hearing aids.

Mimi, a hearing test program that goes beyond the usual online tests. After the 20 minute test there is a hearing assist program which, in my experience, might be useful in piano tuning.

Ryobi Phone works, one of several devices that work through a phone app. Use hearing only buds to use the phone as the microphone. You might be able to download the app without buying Ryobi's earphones.

What I have not been able to find is a simple band pass filter app, which would be very helpful in teaching tuning, something that could be focused to only pick up frequencies in a range near a desired coincident partial. Ideally a touch sensitive keyboard image would allow quick adjustment.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
704-536-7926

I haven't found an app for my iPhone that has a parametric EQ function for a live monitored microphone, but this one looks close.  It has a 15 band graphic EQ with enough control to probably filter or boost a lot.  You can use the built in microphone and headphones, or even a Shure Motiv external mic if you are looking for better quality.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hearing-help/id503936600?mt=8

No need to make a separate device when a modern smartphone has so much computing power.

I haven't found an app for my iPhone that has a parametric EQ function for a live monitored microphone, but this one looks close.  It has a 15 band graphic EQ with enough control to probably filter or boost a lot.  You can use the built in microphone and headphones, or even a Shure Motiv external mic if you are looking for better quality.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hearing-help/id503936600?mt=8

No need to make a separate device when a modern smartphone has so much computing power.

Thomas-

Thank you!

 A preliminary test is promising!

I want to try it with someone who "can't hear beats."

Ed

90% of the respondents who answer my online surveys, indicate tune with an ETD, not aurally.

In my opinion, part of the problem is a lack of efficient, consistent, simply, and accurate methods; too much preconceived ideas, as Ron stated.

People who can't hear beats should all have no opinion about which temperament, (ET, Meantone, Werkmeister, etc.,) is more musical. Has anyone noticed any connection?

Anyone who tunes unisons aurally and tunes them clean (as virtually all electronic tuners do) *can* hear beats.  They just don't recognize what they are hearing. Similarly, those who claim they can't hear beats probably can recognize a qualitative difference between various temperaments were you to play, say, two different sets of thirds (same notes on two different pianos) that were set up at a different width. Directed listening can be done by virtually anyone with normal hearing if it's presented properly.  

Very good exercise. Did you account for stretch using B values? Did you use measured or calculated B values? Did you create different spreadsheets for different size pianos with different inharmonicity? If you do this, you found that F3A3 can beat from 6.8 to 7.2 bps (approximate) depending on the inharmonicity of the piano.

Mark: To me PIANO Temperament only makes sense in theory. Otherwise it is just a start and fruit in and of itself. Given INHARMONICITY what I currently think matters more is the superstructure. For example: Notes A1,A13,C#17,F#22,D#31,F33,C40,F#58,C#65,D#67,C76,&A84 in presumably 5/3 & 5/2 ratios make up the contiguous M6ths and 10ths around A49. To me the smaller intervals need to fit in not the other way around otherwise wide chords hands apart (opening to Tedescos' #145 Fantasie or Debussys' Cathedral for example) do not sound as nice. That's my 2 cents worth on mostly routine (small) pianos. Mr B. brilliantly shone the light on contiguous M3rds but perhaps it is the concept of contiguous intervals that matter not the particular one. ALL intervals are "created " equal but it seems like some are pets. I am so impressed with your diligent approach. Ever play contiguous M6ths for instance in groups of 3 or 4 and then move the whole giddy-up up/down by halfsteps and play in the reverse direction? Helpful?  Meaningless? 

Very good exercise. Did you account for stretch using B values? Did you use measured or calculated B values? Did you create different spreadsheets for different size pianos with different inharmonicity? If you do this, you found that F3A3 can beat from 6.8 to 7.2 bps (approximate) depending on the inharmonicity of the piano.

Mark: To me PIANO Temperament only makes sense in theory. Otherwise it is just a start and fruit in and of itself. Given INHARMONICITY what I currently think matters more is the superstructure. For example: Notes A1,A13,C#17,F#22,D#31,F33,C40,F#58,C#65,D#67,C76,&A84 in presumably 5/3 & 5/2 ratios make up the contiguous M6ths and 10ths around A49. To me the smaller intervals need to fit in not the other way around otherwise wide chords hands apart (opening to Tedescos' #145 Fantasie or Debussys' Cathedral for example) do not sound as nice. That's my 2 cents worth on mostly routine (small) pianos. Mr B. brilliantly shone the light on contiguous M3rds but perhaps it is the concept of contiguous intervals that matter not the particular one. ALL intervals are "created " equal but it seems like some are pets. I am so impressed with your diligent approach. Ever play contiguous M6ths for instance in groups of 3 or 4 and then move the whole giddy-up up/down by halfsteps and play in the reverse direction? Helpful?  Meaningless? 

Very good exercise. Did you account for stretch using B values? Did you use measured or calculated B values? Did you create different spreadsheets for different size pianos with different inharmonicity? If you do this, you found that F3A3 can beat from 6.8 to 7.2 bps (approximate) depending on the inharmonicity of the piano.