Discussion: View Thread

Paul,

I am from the University of Southern Mississippi, we became a Kawai EPIC school in Oct 2013 with the purchase of 37 pianos over three years, 11 grands, and 26 verticals. 

I am probably backwards in a way in that I put the 48"class pianos in our class rooms and the 46" class UST-9 in the practice rooms.  I find our class room folks generally like to put their materials on the top and stand at the piano for their samples, occasionally sitting to play a complete segment.  I have had good feedback from the professors from the K-3s.  A couple of those are the new K-300.

The K-300 offers a longer music rack than the older K-3 It lacks a few inches reaching the entire length of the fallboard.  The new K-400 is the same piano inside, a little more cost, but it offers a traditional studio piano music desk across the entire piano and a traditional two piece folding fallboard.

I have been well please with the serviceability of the pianos.  The finish has held up better on the K-3s than the lacquer UST-9.  I would have easily purchased the whole lot in K-3s had the money been there. As it is we are half UST-9 (13) and half K-3/K300.

The Kawai ABS carbon action parts are great in that they are stable in all humidity ranges.  Because of the higher strength to weight ratio it's claimed that actions are 25% faster.   Naturally the advanced pianist still prefer grand pianos for practice, but these will handle any repertoire without skipping a note.

In general we are well pleased with the level of service from Kawai America.  I do not have any regrets in or decision.  The department chair and I made the decision that we just needed to do what was in the best interest of our students to have the best pianos possible without getting caught up in the brand wars.  The great thing is the Kawai program is non-exclusive so it's okay with them if we should need buy other brands as needed satisfy the needs of individual professor that may insist on "their brand" of piano.

-------------------------------------------
Lonnie Young
Petal MS
601-582-9229
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-21-2015 14:15
From: Paul Milesi
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Our Department of Music is looking into purchasing about a dozen new uprights for our practice room and classroom inventory.  They will be replacing 32-year-old Hamiltons, and a couple even older Sohmers.  The goal is to improve the quality (not just condition) of the inventory, figuring that what we purchase now might well impact the Department for the next 30-50 years.  We are interested in musicality.  This is a huge step for us, and I would like to be able to provide as much information as possible.

These practice room pianos are intended for non-piano majors/minors.  I have tentatively recommended 48" professional pianos for the practice rooms, and 45-46" pianos for three classrooms (so faculty can sit at them and see the class over the top).  Currently focused on Yamaha U1s (practice rooms) and P22s (classrooms), as well as comparable Kawai K400/300-series and 506N.

One of our concerns: The music rack on both Yamaha and Kawai professional series pianos.  Comments?  Alternatives? 

As an institution, are there other makes or models we should be looking at?  Any reason to explore taller models?  Compare brands?  Experiences (good and bad)?  Durability/longevity?  Tuning stability?

All comments and suggestions welcome.  Please feel free to reply privately if for any reason you are not comfortable posting to the list.  Thanks in advance for your input.

--

Paul Milesi
Staff Piano Technician
Howard University Department of Music
Washington, DC
(202) 806-4565 University Shop/Office
(202) 246-3136 Cell/Text
paul.milesi@howard.edu

I have seen one of these new K300s and a K400- very impressive and perhaps these are so improved that they are just as great as the U-1s, etc--time will tell.
But again, try to go for the K500 if there is one--better to ask for too expensive of pianos and the admins force you down a notch. I do hope this makes sense!

-------------------------------------------
Kevin Fortenberry
Registered Piano Technician
Lubbock TX
806-778-3962
-------------------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 1/21/2015 3:37:22 PM
From: lonnie.young@usm.edu
Subject: RE: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Paul,

I am from the University of Southern Mississippi, we became a Kawai EPIC school in Oct 2013 with the purchase of 37 pianos over three years, 11 grands, and 26 verticals. 

I am probably backwards in a way in that I put the 48"class pianos in our class rooms and the 46" class UST-9 in the practice rooms.  I find our class room folks generally like to put their materials on the top and stand at the piano for their samples, occasionally sitting to play a complete segment.  I have had good feedback from the professors from the K-3s.  A couple of those are the new K-300.

The K-300 offers a longer music rack than the older K-3 It lacks a few inches reaching the entire length of the fallboard.  The new K-400 is the same piano inside, a little more cost, but it offers a traditional studio piano music desk across the entire piano and a traditional two piece folding fallboard.

I have been well please with the serviceability of the pianos.  The finish has held up better on the K-3s than the lacquer UST-9.  I would have easily purchased the whole lot in K-3s had the money been there. As it is we are half UST-9 (13) and half K-3/K300.

The Kawai ABS carbon action parts are great in that they are stable in all humidity ranges.  Because of the higher strength to weight ratio it's claimed that actions are 25% faster.   Naturally the advanced pianist still prefer grand pianos for practice, but these will handle any repertoire without skipping a note.

In general we are well pleased with the level of service from Kawai America.  I do not have any regrets in or decision.  The department chair and I made the decision that we just needed to do what was in the best interest of our students to have the best pianos possible without getting caught up in the brand wars.  The great thing is the Kawai program is non-exclusive so it's okay with them if we should need buy other brands as needed satisfy the needs of individual professor that may insist on "their brand" of piano.

------------------------------------------- Lonnie Young Petal MS 601-582-9229 -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 01-21-2015 14:15 From: Paul Milesi Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Our Department of Music is looking into purchasing about a dozen new uprights for our practice room and classroom inventory.  They will be replacing 32-year-old Hamiltons, and a couple even older Sohmers.  The goal is to improve the quality (not just condition) of the inventory, figuring that what we purchase now might well impact the Department for the next 30-50 years.  We are interested in musicality.  This is a huge step for us, and I would like to be able to provide as much information as possible.

These practice room pianos are intended for non-piano majors/minors.  I have tentatively recommended 48" professional pianos for the practice rooms, and 45-46" pianos for three classrooms (so faculty can sit at them and see the class over the top).  Currently focused on Yamaha U1s (practice rooms) and P22s (classrooms), as well as comparable Kawai K400/300-series and 506N.

One of our concerns: The music rack on both Yamaha and Kawai professional series pianos.  Comments?  Alternatives? 

As an institution, are there other makes or models we should be looking at?  Any reason to explore taller models?  Compare brands?  Experiences (good and bad)?  Durability/longevity?  Tuning stability?

All comments and suggestions welcome.  Please feel free to reply privately if for any reason you are not comfortable posting to the list.  Thanks in advance for your input.

--

Paul Milesi Staff Piano Technician Howard University Department of Music Washington, DC (202) 806-4565 University Shop/Office (202) 246-3136 Cell/Text paul.milesi@howard.edu

Hi Paul,

I suggest Charles R Walter Model 1500 Studio Oak.  My church has six of them and they get used a lot.  Our local Community College has three with no issues,  Disclaimer:  I am a CRW dealer having sold in excess of 150 with only minor problems.  Check the string lengths of the 48" pianos, the CRW pianos will probably beat them.  These are also solid wood- no mdf.

-------------------------------------------
Stephen Grattan
Port Huron MI
810-984-2757
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-21-2015 14:15
From: Paul Milesi
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Our Department of Music is looking into purchasing about a dozen new uprights for our practice room and classroom inventory.  They will be replacing 32-year-old Hamiltons, and a couple even older Sohmers.  The goal is to improve the quality (not just condition) of the inventory, figuring that what we purchase now might well impact the Department for the next 30-50 years.  We are interested in musicality.  This is a huge step for us, and I would like to be able to provide as much information as possible.

These practice room pianos are intended for non-piano majors/minors.  I have tentatively recommended 48" professional pianos for the practice rooms, and 45-46" pianos for three classrooms (so faculty can sit at them and see the class over the top).  Currently focused on Yamaha U1s (practice rooms) and P22s (classrooms), as well as comparable Kawai K400/300-series and 506N.

One of our concerns: The music rack on both Yamaha and Kawai professional series pianos.  Comments?  Alternatives? 

As an institution, are there other makes or models we should be looking at?  Any reason to explore taller models?  Compare brands?  Experiences (good and bad)?  Durability/longevity?  Tuning stability?

All comments and suggestions welcome.  Please feel free to reply privately if for any reason you are not comfortable posting to the list.  Thanks in advance for your input.

--

Paul Milesi
Staff Piano Technician
Howard University Department of Music
Washington, DC
(202) 806-4565 University Shop/Office
(202) 246-3136 Cell/Text
paul.milesi@howard.edu

Hi Stephen and All,

In the late 80's and early 90's Ithaca College purchased a number of CRW 1500's for classrooms and small practice rooms. They held up well over the years but there was one problem that proved to be a bit dangerous. The pianos placed in the classrooms had a problem with the rear casters becoming loose and wobbly. In one instance I did not see it in time and the piano fell on its back when moved.

The problem was due to the caster sockets being installed into the spruce wood of the frame. The socket stems pulverized the wood around it and the hole became elongated. For a quick fix I used thin CA glue to soak the area and then applied wood rebuilder along with veneer pieces. It held for a while but eventually became loose again. Ultimately we had to send these pianos to the small classrooms where they could not be moved much as I did not find the time to do a proper fix on all of them.

One method for a proper fix might be to use a router and open a large area around the hole and then inset a piece of maple. You could just install twin dollies but I found they are often jammed into a wall resulting in damage to the wall. Professors and administrators do not care for that very much!

When I first discovered this problem I spoke to Charles Walter about it at a convention. It has been a long time since I have seen a 1500 so I do not know if they did a fix for the rear casters. Again, I found them to be good workhorse pianos but if you want to put one in a classroom check to see if they fixed this issue.

Regards,
Don

-------------------------------------------
[Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
[Piano Technician]
[dmckech@ithaca.edu]
[Home 607.277.7112]
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-21-2015 16:33
From: Stephen Grattan
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Hi Paul,

I suggest Charles R Walter Model 1500 Studio Oak.  My church has six of them and they get used a lot.  Our local Community College has three with no issues,  Disclaimer:  I am a CRW dealer having sold in excess of 150 with only minor problems.  Check the string lengths of the 48" pianos, the CRW pianos will probably beat them.  These are also solid wood- no mdf.

-------------------------------------------
Stephen Grattan
Port Huron MI
810-984-2757
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-21-2015 14:15
From: Paul Milesi
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Our Department of Music is looking into purchasing about a dozen new uprights for our practice room and classroom inventory.  They will be replacing 32-year-old Hamiltons, and a couple even older Sohmers.  The goal is to improve the quality (not just condition) of the inventory, figuring that what we purchase now might well impact the Department for the next 30-50 years.  We are interested in musicality.  This is a huge step for us, and I would like to be able to provide as much information as possible.

These practice room pianos are intended for non-piano majors/minors.  I have tentatively recommended 48" professional pianos for the practice rooms, and 45-46" pianos for three classrooms (so faculty can sit at them and see the class over the top).  Currently focused on Yamaha U1s (practice rooms) and P22s (classrooms), as well as comparable Kawai K400/300-series and 506N.

One of our concerns: The music rack on both Yamaha and Kawai professional series pianos.  Comments?  Alternatives? 

As an institution, are there other makes or models we should be looking at?  Any reason to explore taller models?  Compare brands?  Experiences (good and bad)?  Durability/longevity?  Tuning stability?

All comments and suggestions welcome.  Please feel free to reply privately if for any reason you are not comfortable posting to the list.  Thanks in advance for your input.

--

Paul Milesi
Staff Piano Technician
Howard University Department of Music
Washington, DC
(202) 806-4565 University Shop/Office
(202) 246-3136 Cell/Text
paul.milesi@howard.edu

Paul, are you going to have to go "to bid" on these pianos? (Is this a State University may be a better question.)
If so, this may change the picture of what you will be able to purchase.
I basically agree with the other comments. Let me just say that from what I have learned over the past 6 years at Texas Tech (and about 15 years before that of dealing with various schools, churches, & institutions) is this:
Try to make a push for THE BEST POSSIBLE pianos you can get.
For us at Texas Tech, a state university-requiring a HUGE drawn out bidding process- I would probably start out by trying to obtain as many Yamaha U-3s as possible, and U-1s.
Then in reality you MIGHT get a significant number of REALLY nice uprights (U-1s at least-hopefully)that hold their tune as well as just about anything remotely affordable, (and possibly a few P-22s as a lesser choice).
We have a LARGE number of Kawai K-3s and several K-5s. K-5 s being FAR SUPERIOR in our erratic temp/humidity building. For example,I have to adjust the key height at the rail on many of our K-3s about twice a year to keep them from double-striking, etc.
Bottom line, I have UNDER SHOT & my thinking has been too SMALL on our last 3 or 4 purchases. Wish we had more Yamahas!! Kawais are also great and an excellent 2nd choice, but they nearly always win our bid! 😏😏.
There are many other great brands out there, as has been mentioned (personally like Shimmels) BUT price, and complications in who will win the bid, etc make this pretty difficult for many.
Caveat: grands are a different story.
Hope this helps!
Kevin

-------------------------------------------
Kevin Fortenberry
Registered Piano Technician
Lubbock TX
806-778-3962
-------------------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 1/21/2015 2:15:48 PM
From: paul@pmpiano.com
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Our Department of Music is looking into purchasing about a dozen new uprights for our practice room and classroom inventory.  They will be replacing 32-year-old Hamiltons, and a couple even older Sohmers.  The goal is to improve the quality (not just condition) of the inventory, figuring that what we purchase now might well impact the Department for the next 30-50 years.  We are interested in musicality.  This is a huge step for us, and I would like to be able to provide as much information as possible.

These practice room pianos are intended for non-piano majors/minors.  I have tentatively recommended 48" professional pianos for the practice rooms, and 45-46" pianos for three classrooms (so faculty can sit at them and see the class over the top).  Currently focused on Yamaha U1s (practice rooms) and P22s (classrooms), as well as comparable Kawai K400/300-series and 506N.

One of our concerns: The music rack on both Yamaha and Kawai professional series pianos.  Comments?  Alternatives? 

As an institution, are there other makes or models we should be looking at?  Any reason to explore taller models?  Compare brands?  Experiences (good and bad)?  Durability/longevity?  Tuning stability?

All comments and suggestions welcome.  Please feel free to reply privately if for any reason you are not comfortable posting to the list.  Thanks in advance for your input.

--

Paul Milesi Staff Piano Technician Howard University Department of Music Washington, DC (202) 806-4565 University Shop/Office (202) 246-3136 Cell/Text paul.milesi@howard.edu

Hi Paul and others,

I am a big fan of the P22, mostly for one reason: it has a solid lid, not hinged in the middle. In case somebody on this list hasn't noticed, kids and everybody else these days has an ever-present drink (water, coffee, Jamba Juice, etc.) with them at all times! Guess what will happen eventually? That's right, into the piano (through the hinge) it goes. Of course a U1 or another taller piano offers acoustic and quality advantages, but if you can get along with a P22, or any other piano that has a solid lid, hinged at the back, that's what I would recommend. No matter how many times you scold these kids about liquids in the practice rooms, disaster ensues. From bitter experience...or be prepared to fashion a plywood top (with a channel routed away for the hinge) to place over a U1 style lid.

Margie Williams
pnotuner@pacbell.net

"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing." (Unknown)


Original Message------

Our Department of Music is looking into purchasing about a dozen new uprights for our practice room and classroom inventory.  They will be replacing 32-year-old Hamiltons, and a couple even older Sohmers.  The goal is to improve the quality (not just condition) of the inventory, figuring that what we purchase now might well impact the Department for the next 30-50 years.  We are interested in musicality.  This is a huge step for us, and I would like to be able to provide as much information as possible.

These practice room pianos are intended for non-piano majors/minors.  I have tentatively recommended 48" professional pianos for the practice rooms, and 45-46" pianos for three classrooms (so faculty can sit at them and see the class over the top).  Currently focused on Yamaha U1s (practice rooms) and P22s (classrooms), as well as comparable Kawai K400/300-series and 506N.

One of our concerns: The music rack on both Yamaha and Kawai professional series pianos.  Comments?  Alternatives? 

As an institution, are there other makes or models we should be looking at?  Any reason to explore taller models?  Compare brands?  Experiences (good and bad)?  Durability/longevity?  Tuning stability?

All comments and suggestions welcome.  Please feel free to reply privately if for any reason you are not comfortable posting to the list.  Thanks in advance for your input.

--

Paul Milesi
Staff Piano Technician
Howard University Department of Music
Washington, DC
(202) 806-4565 University Shop/Office
(202) 246-3136 Cell/Text
paul.milesi@howard.edu

Margie, this is a very good point. I was once a HUGE P22 fan also. I have found that they are much more vulnerable to Temp/humidity changes which is a HUGE problem here in West Texas. That being said, the P22 is a good choice overall, and they sound & play wonderfully. (Perhaps others would have more experience with these now that they are made in Indonesia.)
I would consider your point another good point for the K-300s & 400s as they DO have these one piece lids and are more in the "professional series" of pianos-ie better overall, more solid, and probably a better investment of funds when trying to think in terms of 30 years & beyond.
Kevin

-------------------------------------------
Kevin Fortenberry
Registered Piano Technician
Lubbock TX
806-778-3962
-------------------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 1/22/2015 10:34:53 PM
From: pnotuner@pacbell.net
Subject: RE: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Hi Paul and others,

I am a big fan of the P22, mostly for one reason: it has a solid lid, not hinged in the middle. In case somebody on this list hasn't noticed, kids and everybody else these days has an ever-present drink (water, coffee, Jamba Juice, etc.) with them at all times! Guess what will happen eventually? That's right, into the piano (through the hinge) it goes. Of course a U1 or another taller piano offers acoustic and quality advantages, but if you can get along with a P22, or any other piano that has a solid lid, hinged at the back, that's what I would recommend. No matter how many times you scold these kids about liquids in the practice rooms, disaster ensues. From bitter experience...or be prepared to fashion a plywood top (with a channel routed away for the hinge) to place over a U1 style lid.

Margie Williams
pnotuner@pacbell.net

"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing." (Unknown)

I'll just throw Yamaha T121 into the mix. It is a slightly cheaper U1, with a one piece lid. The fall/front panel are close to U1 - unlike the T118, the fall and panel are separate. I have seen no noticeable difference between it and U1, other than cabinet. Same tiny casters, unfortunately.

I am glad to hear the Kawai K300 (and 400 and 500) is more stable than K3. I have a K3 and three K2s, and they are nice pianos except for going farther out of tune faster with the RH swing than others, including P22. I don't know of any studio size that is better in that respect than P22 - they all go pretty crazy. Our old Hamiltons are as bad, as are Kawai UST. I have a couple Perzinas that are definitely the worst - the bottom plain wire go bonkers. I think it may partly have to do with the floating soundboard (the bottom of the board is glued to a hardwood "rib" that is only attached to the back at its ends. It is reversed crowned as well. The pianos sound nice when is in tune - and after I prepped them, that is).

From the point of view of music rack, I like Yamaha YUS5, but it is pricey (also has a sostenuto). It has an actual slanted rack built onto the front panel. I also like the larger Petrof system, essentially like P22 (the music support systems seem to vary a lot by size of instrument in Petrof). I'm really not very fond of the design with a strip hinged to the fall for holding music, even when it is extended. It is definitely not xerox friendly: individual sheets bend and fall away. Not good for large books. Support only at the bottom and middle of the book. The strip sits right above the hands. And subject to the hinge screws loosening/stripping, etc. I have about 25 U1s, and that is the major complaint I have, along with a couple of spill issues needing new bass strings. Well, also the new U1s have changed where the hinged lid is split, so it is placed forward, meaning that my tuning hammer will contact it in the bass and tenor (unless I break down and get another head and extension for my Fujan - I prefer its normal set up. Those small annoyances).

-------------------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
http://fredsturm.net
"When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-22-2015 23:29
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Margie, this is a very good point. I was once a HUGE P22 fan also. I have found that they are much more vulnerable to Temp/humidity changes which is a HUGE problem here in West Texas. That being said, the P22 is a good choice overall, and they sound & play wonderfully. (Perhaps others would have more experience with these now that they are made in Indonesia.)
I would consider your point another good point for the K-300s & 400s as they DO have these one piece lids and are more in the "professional series" of pianos-ie better overall, more solid, and probably a better investment of funds when trying to think in terms of 30 years & beyond.
Kevin

-------------------------------------------
Kevin Fortenberry
Registered Piano Technician
Lubbock TX
806-778-3962
-------------------------------------------

> I have a couple Perzinas that are definitely the worst - the bottom
> plain wire go bonkers. I think it may partly have to do with the
> floating soundboard (the bottom of the board is glued to a hardwood
> "rib" that is only attached to the back at its ends.

Once again, look at the scale transition there. You'll likely find the
low tenor at a very low break%. I most seriously doubt the floating
soundboard has a thing to do with it.
Ron N


Original Message------

I'll just throw Yamaha T121 into the mix. It is a slightly cheaper U1, with a one piece lid. The fall/front panel are close to U1 - unlike the T118, the fall and panel are separate. I have seen no noticeable difference between it and U1, other than cabinet. Same tiny casters, unfortunately.

I am glad to hear the Kawai K300 (and 400 and 500) is more stable than K3. I have a K3 and three K2s, and they are nice pianos except for going farther out of tune faster with the RH swing than others, including P22. I don't know of any studio size that is better in that respect than P22 - they all go pretty crazy. Our old Hamiltons are as bad, as are Kawai UST. I have a couple Perzinas that are definitely the worst - the bottom plain wire go bonkers. I think it may partly have to do with the floating soundboard (the bottom of the board is glued to a hardwood "rib" that is only attached to the back at its ends. It is reversed crowned as well. The pianos sound nice when is in tune - and after I prepped them, that is).

From the point of view of music rack, I like Yamaha YUS5, but it is pricey (also has a sostenuto). It has an actual slanted rack built onto the front panel. I also like the larger Petrof system, essentially like P22 (the music support systems seem to vary a lot by size of instrument in Petrof). I'm really not very fond of the design with a strip hinged to the fall for holding music, even when it is extended. It is definitely not xerox friendly: individual sheets bend and fall away. Not good for large books. Support only at the bottom and middle of the book. The strip sits right above the hands. And subject to the hinge screws loosening/stripping, etc. I have about 25 U1s, and that is the major complaint I have, along with a couple of spill issues needing new bass strings. Well, also the new U1s have changed where the hinged lid is split, so it is placed forward, meaning that my tuning hammer will contact it in the bass and tenor (unless I break down and get another head and extension for my Fujan - I prefer its normal set up. Those small annoyances).

-------------------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
http://fredsturm.net
"When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-22-2015 23:29
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Margie, this is a very good point. I was once a HUGE P22 fan also. I have found that they are much more vulnerable to Temp/humidity changes which is a HUGE problem here in West Texas. That being said, the P22 is a good choice overall, and they sound & play wonderfully. (Perhaps others would have more experience with these now that they are made in Indonesia.)
I would consider your point another good point for the K-300s & 400s as they DO have these one piece lids and are more in the "professional series" of pianos-ie better overall, more solid, and probably a better investment of funds when trying to think in terms of 30 years & beyond.
Kevin

-------------------------------------------
Kevin Fortenberry
Registered Piano Technician
Lubbock TX
806-778-3962
-------------------------------------------

Perzina (German) and the Australian Wertheim (built in Melbourne) seem to be the same iron frame. In its day a very good piano however time and the weather have affected many of the older pianos built around 1910. Sometimes I come across one that has been kept in a mild climate and they are a very good piano (upright).
When tuned and regulated properly the tune is quite acceptable.
Tony

-------------------------------------------
Tony Caught
Piano tuner technician
Edge Hill Qld Australia
61 7 4032 4573
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2015 16:35
From: Ronald Nossaman
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

> I have a couple Perzinas that are definitely the worst - the bottom
> plain wire go bonkers. I think it may partly have to do with the
> floating soundboard (the bottom of the board is glued to a hardwood
> "rib" that is only attached to the back at its ends.

Once again, look at the scale transition there. You'll likely find the
low tenor at a very low break%. I most seriously doubt the floating
soundboard has a thing to do with it.
Ron N

The Perzinas I have are modern, made in China. I guess owned somewhere in Europe and using some amount of European parts, somewhat like Brodmann. Really nothing to do with the original company, other than the name (not quite as little connection as Kohler & Campbell, where Samick simply bought the name).




Original Message------

Perzina (German) and the Australian Wertheim (built in Melbourne) seem to be the same iron frame. In its day a very good piano however time and the weather have affected many of the older pianos built around 1910. Sometimes I come across one that has been kept in a mild climate and they are a very good piano (upright).
When tuned and regulated properly the tune is quite acceptable.
Tony

-------------------------------------------
Tony Caught
Piano tuner technician
Edge Hill Qld Australia
61 7 4032 4573
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2015 16:35
From: Ronald Nossaman
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

> I have a couple Perzinas that are definitely the worst - the bottom
> plain wire go bonkers. I think it may partly have to do with the
> floating soundboard (the bottom of the board is glued to a hardwood
> "rib" that is only attached to the back at its ends.

Once again, look at the scale transition there. You'll likely find the
low tenor at a very low break%. I most seriously doubt the floating
soundboard has a thing to do with it.
Ron N

Fred and all, Yamaha is no longer making the T-121 series, however there may still be some new ones out there on some showroom floors.
Just got off the phone with our Yamaha dealer and he is supposed to send me some detail about their newer B-1, B-2, & B-3 Uprights, which apparently replaces the T series.
Guess we will see.

-------------------------------------------
Kevin Fortenberry
Registered Piano Technician
Lubbock TX
806-778-3962
-------------------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 1/27/2015 3:38:33 PM
From: fssturm@unm.edu
Subject: RE: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

I'll just throw Yamaha T121 into the mix. It is a slightly cheaper U1, with a one piece lid. The fall/front panel are close to U1 - unlike the T118, the fall and panel are separate. I have seen no noticeable difference between it and U1, other than cabinet. Same tiny casters, unfortunately. I am glad to hear the Kawai K300 (and 400 and 500) is more stable than K3. I have a K3 and three K2s, and they are nice pianos except for going farther out of tune faster with the RH swing than others, including P22. I don't know of any studio size that is better in that respect than P22 - they all go pretty crazy. Our old Hamiltons are as bad, as are Kawai UST. I have a couple Perzinas that are definitely the worst - the bottom plain wire go bonkers. I think it may partly have to do with the floating soundboard (the bottom of the board is glued to a hardwood "rib" that is only attached to the back at its ends. It is reversed crowned as well. The pianos sound nice when is in tune - and after I prepped them, that is). From the point of view of music rack, I like Yamaha YUS5, but it is pricey (also has a sostenuto). It has an actual slanted rack built onto the front panel. I also like the larger Petrof system, essentially like P22 (the music support systems seem to vary a lot by size of instrument in Petrof). I'm really not very fond of the design with a strip hinged to the fall for holding music, even when it is extended. It is definitely not xerox friendly: individual sheets bend and fall away. Not good for large books. Support only at the bottom and middle of the book. The strip sits right above the hands. And subject to the hinge screws loosening/stripping, etc. I have about 25 U1s, and that is the major complaint I have, along with a couple of spill issues needing new bass strings. Well, also the new U1s have changed where the hinged lid is split, so it is placed forward, meaning that my tuning hammer will contact it in the bass and tenor (unless I break down and get another head and extension for my Fujan - I prefer its normal set up. Those small annoyances). ------------------------------------------- Fred Sturm University of New Mexico http://fredsturm.net "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 01-22-2015 23:29 From: Kevin Fortenberry Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory Margie, this is a very good point. I was once a HUGE P22 fan also. I have found that they are much more vulnerable to Temp/humidity changes which is a HUGE problem here in West Texas. That being said, the P22 is a good choice overall, and they sound & play wonderfully. (Perhaps others would have more experience with these now that they are made in Indonesia.) I would consider your point another good point for the K-300s & 400s as they DO have these one piece lids and are more in the "professional series" of pianos-ie better overall, more solid, and probably a better investment of funds when trying to think in terms of 30 years & beyond. Kevin ------------------------------------------- Kevin Fortenberry Registered Piano Technician Lubbock TX 806-778-3962 -------------------------------------------

Also MAY have found a decent option for the whole SPILL/LIQUID ON PIANOS issue- at least for vertical pianos. (by the way, some dufus spilled some coffee on our Steinway B we had in our choir hall about 1 1/2 years ago-and did NOT REPORT IT.  I had to do MAJOR bridge repairs on top two sections, soaked wood to harden, re-notched bridge, new bridge pins, and partial restring, etc--back in service now!)

I have attached a photo of an Essex upright with a nice "lid cover" - never have seen one of these. They look and feel just like the really heavy duty piano covers that we have on our recital hall pianos which we have ordered, so I am SURE that we should be able to figure out how and where to order these. These do APPEAR pricey, but if it were figured into the cost of a new piano order--it would seem to me that this COULD be really helpful in many of our school situations.

(Tuned three of these Essex EUP-123 models on Saturday, for a school that is going All Steinway).

These pianos seemed to be a decent piano and I was thinking about throwing them into the mix of really decent and good sounding/playing pianos for the money. Then I looked at the prices they had on a fundraising brochure on a door, and was surprised to find out these little China made jewels are NOT THAT AFFORDABLE. I do not want to post the price on this list - to protect the innocent, but I will just say that IF the price on the door is CORRECT, these are EXTREMELY close to the price of the top competitors. Also, the pins were tighter that some of "THOSE BALDWINS" when they were new---that nearly all of us have encountered! Also, the music rack was NOT impressive to me at all, which is a big part of this discussion.

Hope this helps someone--anyone else had any experiences with these Essex uprights?
Kevin

-------------------------------------------
Kevin Fortenberry
Registered Piano Technician
Lubbock TX
806-778-3962

Instrument Covers By Jill out of Salem, OR, makes covers for the lids of Studio/Console pianos that are attached using velcro. Dennis Haley is the owner 800 274 4543.  I don't think they have a website, but you can call and request a catalog

-------------------------------------------
Tony Graves RPT
Ball State University
Muncie IN

-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2015 19:34
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Also MAY have found a decent option for the whole SPILL/LIQUID ON PIANOS issue- at least for vertical pianos. (by the way, some dufus spilled some coffee on our Steinway B we had in our choir hall about 1 1/2 years ago-and did NOT REPORT IT.  I had to do MAJOR bridge repairs on top two sections, soaked wood to harden, re-notched bridge, new bridge pins, and partial restring, etc--back in service now!)

I have attached a photo of an Essex upright with a nice "lid cover" - never have seen one of these. They look and feel just like the really heavy duty piano covers that we have on our recital hall pianos which we have ordered, so I am SURE that we should be able to figure out how and where to order these. These do APPEAR pricey, but if it were figured into the cost of a new piano order--it would seem to me that this COULD be really helpful in many of our school situations.

(Tuned three of these Essex EUP-123 models on Saturday, for a school that is going All Steinway).

These pianos seemed to be a decent piano and I was thinking about throwing them into the mix of really decent and good sounding/playing pianos for the money. Then I looked at the prices they had on a fundraising brochure on a door, and was surprised to find out these little China made jewels are NOT THAT AFFORDABLE. I do not want to post the price on this list - to protect the innocent, but I will just say that IF the price on the door is CORRECT, these are EXTREMELY close to the price of the top competitors. Also, the pins were tighter that some of "THOSE BALDWINS" when they were new---that nearly all of us have encountered! Also, the music rack was NOT impressive to me at all, which is a big part of this discussion.

Hope this helps someone--anyone else had any experiences with these Essex uprights?
Kevin

-------------------------------------------
Kevin Fortenberry
Registered Piano Technician
Lubbock TX
806-778-3962

For a Studio/Console Piano Topper try Instrument Covers, Dennis Haley, 800-274-4543. This option is included in their catalog.

-------------------------------------------
John Ginter
Plum Piano Restoration, Inc.
La Grange TX
832-722-3033
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2015 19:34
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Also MAY have found a decent option for the whole SPILL/LIQUID ON PIANOS issue- at least for vertical pianos. (by the way, some dufus spilled some coffee on our Steinway B we had in our choir hall about 1 1/2 years ago-and did NOT REPORT IT.  I had to do MAJOR bridge repairs on top two sections, soaked wood to harden, re-notched bridge, new bridge pins, and partial restring, etc--back in service now!)

I have attached a photo of an Essex upright with a nice "lid cover" - never have seen one of these. They look and feel just like the really heavy duty piano covers that we have on our recital hall pianos which we have ordered, so I am SURE that we should be able to figure out how and where to order these. These do APPEAR pricey, but if it were figured into the cost of a new piano order--it would seem to me that this COULD be really helpful in many of our school situations.

(Tuned three of these Essex EUP-123 models on Saturday, for a school that is going All Steinway).

These pianos seemed to be a decent piano and I was thinking about throwing them into the mix of really decent and good sounding/playing pianos for the money. Then I looked at the prices they had on a fundraising brochure on a door, and was surprised to find out these little China made jewels are NOT THAT AFFORDABLE. I do not want to post the price on this list - to protect the innocent, but I will just say that IF the price on the door is CORRECT, these are EXTREMELY close to the price of the top competitors. Also, the pins were tighter that some of "THOSE BALDWINS" when they were new---that nearly all of us have encountered! Also, the music rack was NOT impressive to me at all, which is a big part of this discussion.

Hope this helps someone--anyone else had any experiences with these Essex uprights?
Kevin

-------------------------------------------
Kevin Fortenberry
Registered Piano Technician
Lubbock TX
806-778-3962

Yes- thank you Tony & John! These particular ones had the Velcro stip on the back edge- but they decided not to use it. So they were just lying on top of the lid. Works good for this school because of how tiny their practice rooms are. We would probably need to use the Velcro here at Tech...and possibly some carpet glue or contact cement---maybe some LARGE upholstery tacks too! 😏

-------------------------------------------
Kevin Fortenberry
Registered Piano Technician
Lubbock TX
806-778-3962
-------------------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 1/28/2015 9:41:49 AM
From: john@plumpiano.com
Subject: RE: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

For a Studio/Console Piano Topper try Instrument Covers, Dennis Haley, 800-274-4543. This option is included in their catalog. ------------------------------------------- John Ginter Plum Piano Restoration, Inc. La Grange TX 832-722-3033 -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 01-27-2015 19:34 From: Kevin Fortenberry Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory Also MAY have found a decent option for the whole SPILL/LIQUID ON PIANOS issue- at least for vertical pianos. (by the way, some dufus spilled some coffee on our Steinway B we had in our choir hall about 1 1/2 years ago-and did NOT REPORT IT.  I had to do MAJOR bridge repairs on top two sections, soaked wood to harden, re-notched bridge, new bridge pins, and partial restring, etc--back in service now!) I have attached a photo of an Essex upright with a nice "lid cover" - never have seen one of these. They look and feel just like the really heavy duty piano covers that we have on our recital hall pianos which we have ordered, so I am SURE that we should be able to figure out how and where to order these. These do APPEAR pricey, but if it were figured into the cost of a new piano order--it would seem to me that this COULD be really helpful in many of our school situations. (Tuned three of these Essex EUP-123 models on Saturday, for a school that is going All Steinway). These pianos seemed to be a decent piano and I was thinking about throwing them into the mix of really decent and good sounding/playing pianos for the money. Then I looked at the prices they had on a fundraising brochure on a door, and was surprised to find out these little China made jewels are NOT THAT AFFORDABLE. I do not want to post the price on this list - to protect the innocent, but I will just say that IF the price on the door is CORRECT, these are EXTREMELY close to the price of the top competitors. Also, the pins were tighter that some of "THOSE BALDWINS" when they were new---that nearly all of us have encountered! Also, the music rack was NOT impressive to me at all, which is a big part of this discussion. Hope this helps someone--anyone else had any experiences with these Essex uprights? Kevin ------------------------------------------- Kevin Fortenberry Registered Piano Technician Lubbock TX 806-778-3962

Original Message------

Our Department of Music is looking into purchasing about a dozen new uprights for our practice room and classroom inventory.  They will be replacing 32-year-old Hamiltons, and a couple even older Sohmers.  The goal is to improve the quality (not just condition) of the inventory, figuring that what we purchase now might well impact the Department for the next 30-50 years.  We are interested in musicality.  This is a huge step for us, and I would like to be able to provide as much information as possible.

These practice room pianos are intended for non-piano majors/minors.  I have tentatively recommended 48" professional pianos for the practice rooms, and 45-46" pianos for three classrooms (so faculty can sit at them and see the class over the top).  Currently focused on Yamaha U1s (practice rooms) and P22s (classrooms), as well as comparable Kawai K400/300-series and 506N.

One of our concerns: The music rack on both Yamaha and Kawai professional series pianos.  Comments?  Alternatives? 

As an institution, are there other makes or models we should be looking at?  Any reason to explore taller models?  Compare brands?  Experiences (good and bad)?  Durability/longevity?  Tuning stability?

All comments and suggestions welcome.  Please feel free to reply privately if for any reason you are not comfortable posting to the list.  Thanks in advance for your input.

--

Paul Milesi
Staff Piano Technician
Howard University Department of Music
Washington, DC
(202) 806-4565 University Shop/Office
(202) 246-3136 Cell/Text
paul.milesi@howard.edu

Paul, all,

Sohmer Studios are genuine workhorses.

I have supervised 20 + studio size Sohmers with complete Dampp-Chaser systems installed since the mid '80s'. Other than some bass string inharmonicity issues and easing some snug key bushings, these pianos have excelled in a practice room environment unto this day. Across the board music rack, excellent casters and joined legs to the body of the piano.

A hearty, robust piano for its intended purposes. It has been an extreme joy to service this model.

Keith McGavern, RPT
Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA

Original Message:
Sent: 01-21-2015 14:15
From: Paul Milesi

...  All comments and suggestions welcome.  ...

Original Message------

Paul, all,

Sohmer Studios are genuine workhorses.

I have supervised 20 + studio size Sohmers with complete Dampp-Chaser systems installed since the mid '80s'. Other than some bass string inharmonicity issues and easing some snug key bushings, these pianos have excelled in a practice room environment unto this day. Across the board music rack, excellent casters and joined legs to the body of the piano.

A hearty, robust piano for its intended purposes. It has been an extreme joy to service this model.

Keith McGavern, RPT
Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA

Original Message:
Sent: 01-21-2015 14:15
From: Paul Milesi

...  All comments and suggestions welcome.  ...

Kevin,

The Sohmer Studios of which I spoke were made in America. They are now manufactured by Samick Music Corporation according to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sohmer_%26_Co.

Keith McGavern, RPT
Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA

Original Message:
Sent: 01-29-2015 12:22
From: Kevin Fortenberry

...   are they still in business? Where would the nearest Sohmer dealer be?  Sure be a nice option if they are.  ...

Samick recently announced the discontinuation of the Sohmer & Co. brand.

-------------------------------------------
Gary Bruce, RPT
Bruce Piano Service
Edmond, OK
405-413-TUNE
www.brucepiano.com
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-29-2015 14:50
From: Keith McGavern
Subject: Seeking Recommendations Re New Uprights for Inventory

Kevin,

The Sohmer Studios of which I spoke were made in America. They are now manufactured by Samick Music Corporation according to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sohmer_%26_Co.

Keith McGavern, RPT
Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA

Original Message:
Sent: 01-29-2015 12:22
From: Kevin Fortenberry

...   are they still in business? Where would the nearest Sohmer dealer be?  Sure be a nice option if they are.  ...